Official 2012 NFL Combine Thread

[SenorGato]

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

Well, I was shocked, thought he was at least a 4.40 guy for sure, especially with all the top 5 talk.

+1

tencharacter

[ShutDwn]

Claiborne probably runs a bit better at his pro day and goes back to being in the top seven or eight. He's got some longgggg arms and he is so smooth. If he falls the Panthers probably can't skip him.

[sweetd20]

What's the word on Bolden, is he going to run and do drills at ASU's pro day or do a private workout?

[Shane P. Hallam]

Originally Posted by Clarkw267

I can't believe people are using a 4.50 at the combine as a reason to drop such a clean CB prospect.

If I had a CB need, I wouldn't hesitate to take him anywhere from 4-10

4.50 is a good time for a guy of Claiborne's size, people are pretty crazy, lol.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam

4.50 is a good time for a guy of Claiborne's size, people are pretty crazy, lol.

No. people are idiots. I don't care about that forty as long as he doesn't run worse than a 4.60. He smooth, looked good in drills (besides being a bit sloppy with his back pedal) and he looks great on tape. I'd take Claiborne over PP and Hayden. How often does a CB need to reach top speed covering a receiver compared to having to break on the ball or route? I'll take the CB that looks smooth...

[brat316]

10 and 20 yard split more important than 40.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Razor

How often does a CB need to reach top speed covering a receiver compared to having to break on the ball or route? I'll take the CB that looks smooth...

more relevant: how often is the 40 an actual approximation of a player's true speed? but it's the same thing every single march. people who should know better act like 40 times are football relevant, and seem to forget every bit of game tape that they might have seen.

if you think claiborne is slow, please find some clips of him getting beat. i'm pretty sure there are some 4.3/4.4 receivers in the SEC, and i'm also pretty sure he wasn't giving up 300 yards per game to them.

[brat316]

10 yard 1.60u when he ran a 4.54u

not bad, plenty of starting Dbs are in the 1.60.

Apparently Jenkins has the best 10 yard for Dbs at 1.45

[H.O.O.D]

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

Haden wasn't feeling well at the combine but ran anyways, he came back on his pro day and posted a very solid time.

He posted a 4.47 according to nfldraftscout.

40 times aren't everything but as I posted earlier, 1/10 of a second equates to 2 feet in separation and while 4.50 is a decent 40, it isn't an elite time and 4.35 40 WR's are going to give Claiborne fits in a deep pattern even with great technique because it equates to 3 feet of separation.

1- Can you provide a link that porves you 1/10 second claim and how that correlates to playing on a football field in pads on a Sunday ?

By that logic though, Haden was at least .7 off of the 4.4 elite corner mark therefore if 1/10 equates to 2 feet then Haden gives up what about a foot and a half of separation ? But he plays well enough to be a #1 on Sundays right ? So I'm not gonna worry about Morris running a 4.5 officially, when I see on tape and in the combine drills that this kid is as smooth as it gets, has incredible arm length, good technique for a college kid that can only get better with further coaching.

As for 40 times, pro scouts, GM's and HC's time everybody who runs a 40 by hand, so they obviously feel it is a very important element in a player's potential, they don't just get handed prospects 40 time by combine officials, they go to the trouble of timing each player themselves.

And most of the responses in your other thread say that they will more likely go off of hand times....thus you have ZERO basis now for your "Claiborne lost money" argument because well you don't know what those hand times are.

Speed kills in football and every scout, GM and HC knows it, it alone doesn't make you a pro but among those who are solid pros, it separates the good from the great and in the draft teams are looking for great before settling for the good.

Football speed kills in football. I know that there have been some very good players in this league who did not run an elite timed speed in a pair of shorts but sure played faster than that (ONE GUY NAMED JERRY RICE SPRINGS TO MIND) just like some guys do run 4.3's in their shorts and play like a 4.5 guy once they put pads on. Teams don't just evaluate your game speed by what you run in shorts out of a track stance, they account for what your speed looks like on tape.

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

In the pros, Claiborne will face 4.30-4.40 WR's all the time on almost every team, in college he probably saw a decent one twice a season if that.
Pro WR's go deep in every game and test CB's with their speed all the time and almost every #1 WR in the league is faster than Claiborne.

Claiborne comes from the SEC. Faced some of the best competition in football, and fastest. Just this year, he played against Speed U #1 and the school who were formerly known as Speed U #2 but still have those speed guys. That would be Oregon and Florida FYI. What about that Georgia team ? There is a pretty quick receiver named Tavarres King, that supplanted AJ Green as the #1. Have we talked about Arkansas yet ? Oh let me guess they are not that fast right ? Because Joe Adams also did not run as well as expected ? Jarius Wright was also on that team he ran a 4.42.

Joe Adams also plays much quicker than his 4.55 combine 40. (so does Big 12 stud Kendall Wright)

… The challenge for LSU is a wide array of receivers that are nearly a match for the Arkansas group, plus perhaps the best tight end in the SEC, Orson Charles, who has 40 receptions for 530 yards and five touchdowns.

“They’re very talented and a very fast group,” LSU safety Brandon Taylor said. “A lot of people say Arkansas receivers are the fastest group in the SEC, but Georgia, they are very fast. I know (Tavarres King), I played against him my sophomore year, and he actually kind of got away from me that year, too. They actually have the most talented tight end in the SEC.”

Are all those NFL receivers faster than Claiborne in a pair of shorts or is there game speed faster ? Because game speed is what matters.

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

Claiborne didn't run badly, 4.50 is definitely a 1st round time and scouts and GM's will likely use it in his evaluation no matter what he runs at his pro day if he even runs.

Actually if he alarmed any team with it, then they are going back to the tape before they even consider adjusting his grade. But none of the experts, so called experts, wanna be experts and all the like seem to think he alarmed anyone.

He is still fast enough to be a top 20 pick but he isn't elite, not at 4.50 and I think he drops certainly out of any chance to be a top 5 pick and maybe even a top 10 pick.

Funny how everything you read post combine on the kid now says he cemented his draft stock even though he did not wow teams in the 40. More than that people came away impressed with his natural coverage abilities, long arms and ability to flip his hips.

I have not seen a single report saying he cost himself money, or that his stock is down coming out of Indy.

Here is what Scott himself said :

L.S.U. CB Morris Claiborne measured in at 5-11⅛ and 188 pounds with long 33-¼ inch arms. Claiborne looked good in all of the drills and ran a more than respectable 4.50 forty. Even though Claiborne didn’t run quite as fast as expected it won’t hurt his stock and the former Bayou Bengal should be a Top 5 overall pick.

And all we did was talk about his defensive ability ? Whatever team takes this kid is also going to be adding a pretty good kick returner if they so choose to use him back there.

You may think your opinion is right but you can't back it up unfortunately.

[Complex]

Speed U is who?

[brat316]

Originally Posted by Complex

Speed U is who?

Oregon/UF probably Oregon.

[Iamcanadian]

Originally Posted by H.O.O.D

You may think your opinion is right but you can't back it up unfortunately.

Well of course, the draft itself is the judge, we'll have to see where he is picked on draft day. My opinion or your opinion will be settled on that day not by anything you or I say.

All I'm saying is he won't go top 5 and may have trouble staying in the top 10, I'm not calling him a bum or a flop or anything like that, just think he moved down a bit.

[freeupfreeney]

I got news for you. Claiborne played Zone all year long. He didn't have to be fast.

There are CB that are slower than Claiborne (Chris Gamble) that play man and are considered shutdown.

The are CB that are faster (Terrance Newman) who are liabilities.

Really, Speed is good for Hawking people. There aren't a lot of Defensive plays that will leave a CB playing man without SS help over the top when there is a Streak play.

[P-L]

I really don't think Claiborne's stock was affected by his 40 time. From what we've seen in years past, an exceptional workout moves you up draft boards, an awful workout moves you down draft boards, and an average workout doesn't move much in either direction.

[SRogers92]

Since when is Chris Gamble considered shut down? Lol.

[Shane P. Hallam]

Originally Posted by SRogers92

Since when is Chris Gamble considered shut down? Lol.

Since he had the 2nd lowest QB rating for passes thrown his way. 1st was Revis.

[A Perfect Score]

Originally Posted by SRogers92

Since when is Chris Gamble considered shut down? Lol.

Gamble's been a steady force in Carolina for a while now, and he had a pretty stellar year from my understanding. I thought he was going to be one of the better CBs in the NFL when he was younger, good to see him living up to the potential.

[scottyboy]

when you look at some of the best corners in the league, many of them aren't exactly guys with blazing speed. Guys like Revis, Gamble, nnamdi (maybe not last year, but still), Webster, Haden aren't going to wow you with their straight line speed, there's a lot more to being a CB than that

[keylime_5]

Gamble had an awesome season last year. Definitely the best of this career for my money.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by scottyboy

when you look at some of the best corners in the league, many of them aren't exactly guys with blazing speed. Guys like Revis, Gamble, nnamdi (maybe not last year, but still), Webster, Haden aren't going to wow you with their straight line speed, there's a lot more to being a CB than that

i thought revis was a high 4.3 guy?

[SenorGato]

Originally Posted by njx9

i thought revis was a high 4.3 guy?

He was and is.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by SRogers92

Since when is Chris Gamble considered shut down? Lol.

[P-L]

Revis ran a 4.38 at his Pro Day, but didn't run at the combine. He's certainly fast but, like all Pro Day times, you have to figure that 4.38 time is slightly inflated.

[Leon Sandcastle]

Wait. Teams think Cordy Glenn is a LT now?

[Clarkw267]

Originally Posted by P-L

Revis ran a 4.38 at his Pro Day, but didn't run at the combine. He's certainly fast but, like all Pro Day times, you have to figure that 4.38 time is slightly inflated.

Exactly. Would it shock you to see Claiborne run something in that range at his pro day? Revis is fast... Claiborne is fast.... you can see it on the field.