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Old 02-26-2012, 08:18 PM    (permalink
ChiFan24
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Originally Posted by Rashaan Salaam View Post
Welcome to the combine, where the good teams ignore it and the bad teams set their draft boards
Ignoring the fact that you are oversimplifying things, that's not what this thread is about. Certain guys lose money at the combine. That's a thing that happens, whether you agree with it or not. This thread acknowledges that.
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Rashaan Salaam View Post
Welcome to the combine, where the good teams ignore it and the bad teams set their draft boards
How do you know which teams put a lot of stock in the combine and which don't? I think this is just confirmation bias on your part. Several GMs who are very highly regarded are actually fairly hardline on numbers drafting. Ted Thompson of the Packers, for example, has position specific size and athleticism requirements before he will even consider putting a player on his board. Last I heard, he's pretty good at the "draft" part of his job.
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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guys with great triangle numbers but not production make money cause some team will take him on as a late round project. He just went from say 6-UDFA to 4-6 round. And the complete opposite can happen where its not worth to draft him cause he doesn't offer really anything even thought o tape he might have showed some flashes.

Combine is great for late round guys.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Rashaan Salaam View Post
Yea you find out a guy can run fast or jump high..but if it doesn't translate onto tape, then its all for not.

Clay Mathews showed enough on tape for GB to pick him. Even though he had limited tape, he still showed explosiveness and athleticism that was tailor made for the Pack.
If Clay Matthews had run a best time of 4.85 before the draft, I don't care what his game film looked like, I doubt he would have been drafted where he was by GB.

A great combine won't skyrocket someone who's a bum player on Saturdays, but a bad combine can drop a good player in pads.

And guys still get drafted relatively high with mediocre production because of their measurables which many NFL teams still view as 'upside'.

You can't coach big. You can't coach country strong. You can't coach lightening speed. But NFL coaches still believe they can 'coach up' players with elite tools into productive NFL players.
Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't.

Kendall Wright may still end up going in the first round, but he's no longer a top 15 prospect.
If Sanu had run a 4.3, he would have been a lock for no later than probably the 45th pick.

Guys who are expected to catch passes and cover WRs, or rush the passer and collapse the pocket need to have good test numbers to put their game film into context.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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I dont believe Wrights 40 time. He had an unofficial 4.45 and 4.50, and then the official jumped to 4.62....

Scouts dont pay attention to the official time, they trust their own watches, and NFLN has a former scout timing them at the combine, I'll go with the unofficial for most of the guys...

Jeffery definitely lost money. He really wimped out of these drills. There's no way he would've run anything good.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Kendall Wright ran through Big 12 secondaries like they were standing still. I know the guy is fast, he just didn't run well.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Kendall Wright ran through Big 12 secondaries like they were standing still. I know the guy is fast, he just didn't run well.
Usually the combine is a check on game tape ("he looks explosive, is he explosive?") but there are times, and I believe this is one, where the game tape is a check on the combine ("there's no possible way he's that slow.")

So we wait for Wright's pro day. I think the talk of him being the #1 WR taken, though, is pretty much put to bed.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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I'll go ahead and be the next poster in line to say Jeffery lost money. He was initially poised to make money following his weight-in, but not running will obviously cost him. I think calling him a coward is a bit dramatic, because despite him losing money, I think not running may have been in his best interest. Not running likely stems from his acknowledgement of him running a slow forty, and although not running will cost him, I think running and running a very poor forty could potentially cost him more.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Kendall Wright ran through Big 12 secondaries like they were standing still. I know the guy is fast, he just didn't run well.
But its not even like he ran bad. He ran a solid 40 time, he just got screwed by the offical timing system. Most scouts there had him somewhere between 4.4 and 4.5 IMO which is a really solid 40 time.
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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I think Kendall Wright had a LeSean McCoy workout.

Everyone sees it and says "oh no, slow, not explosive enough," when if you watch game tape, the speed and explosion are obvious.
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:36 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by StickSkills View Post
I heard Kendall Wright had a bad 40 time.
I don't think Kendall Wright "lost". He might've not "gained", but I think enough folks will look at the tape again and see that this was a kid who was a deep threat (now, I'm sure after the poor 40 time, guys are going back and spinning up tapes to see if he's a deep threat or a slot guy, but I still believe he's a legit deep threat). He was a mid-late first type, and my hunch is that he's still in that range. Reminds me a lot of Lee Evans.
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:42 AM    (permalink
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Hopefully RG3 some how falls to 4 and Wright falls to 22 and Lamar Miller to 36 or 37 whatever the **** we pick at.
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:44 AM    (permalink
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Hopefully RG3 some how falls to 4 and Wright falls to 22 and Lamar Miller to 36 or 37 whatever the **** we pick at.
I think that's wishful thinking. Here's hoping for Browns fans, though. That said, I think it's almost a lock that someone goes up to 2 to get RG3 (still think it's the Browns).
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:50 AM    (permalink
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Sanu, his chances of going late first aren't looking good running a 4.67.
I don't infused understand why any are saying Sanu did poorly. Everyone who saw him run his 40 said he didnt get out of his stance well....thats a fixable problem that will be corrected easily. Other than the 40, he excelled in every drill in which he competed. His numbers show a superb athlete for a supposed possession WR. 10'6 broad, 6.88 3 cone, 36 vert those arent bad numbers at all.

I believe the WR that lost the most money was Reuben Randle. He was supposed to big a 6'4 burner but measured under 6'3 & had the worst day of the projected 1-2 round WRs. He was near the bottom in every event and that vertical is just inexcusable for a WR.

31" vertical jump (38th out of 39)
4.55 40 yd dash (tied for 27th out of 40)
10'1" broad jump (tied for 19th out of 36)
Bench reps (tied for 18th out of 39)
3 cone drill (17th out of 26)
20 yd shuttle (25th out of 26)
60 yd shuttle (last of 13)
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Burfict lost alot
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 4U2NV View Post
Alshon Jeffery. Didn't do a damn thing. No way this coward goes in the first.
Coward is good. Puss. Wuss Loser also fit the bill. He'll bust out.....of the league.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Rashaan Salaam View Post
If you think anyone won or loss the combine...then you guys need help.

Film > Workouts.

The only benefits from the combine are the player interviews & medical reports.
I could give you a ton of names to prove you wrong but I'lll just go with one.

RB Chris Henry. Total bum in college who looked like a superstar at the combine. Got him moved all the way to the 2nd rd. No chance in hell he gets drafted in the 2nd without the combine. He was a 5th rounder at best. Thus he won and won big $.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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I think it just showed perhaps that Kendall Wright is a product of RG111. A great QB can make an average receiver excellent, ask Wes Welker.
On the other hand Wright will have another shot at his pro day, but right now he is no longer a 1st rounder.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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I think it just showed perhaps that Kendall Wright is a product of RG111. A great QB can make an average receiver excellent, ask Wes Welker.
On the other hand Wright will have another shot at his pro day, but right now he is no longer a 1st rounder.
Matt Cassel was great? B.J. Symons was great? Kingsbury was great? 1k under all of these guys... Joey Harrington/Daunte Culpepper (post knee injury) and Cleo Lemon were great in Miami? The only difference in Miami was that Welker didn't see as many snaps on offense because he was also a return man with 2129 all purpose yards.

The only thing it showed was that Wright doesn't look great without pads on.

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Old 02-27-2012, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Welcome to the combine, where the good teams ignore it and the bad teams set their draft boards
Except the good teams don't ignore it.

Every team evaluates game film, then goes to the combine with expectations. If a player exceeds (or fails to meet) them, then you go back and watch the film and see if you think he's a workout warrior or if you miss-evaluated him. You then adjust accordingly.

That means, a first round guy who "blows up the combine" will rise and "good teams" aren't at the top of the first round.

--------------------------------------

The Combine is the first, and only, opportunity where everyone is on an even playing field. The best teams are the ones that can extract what each performance actually means and makes good decisions based on it.

There is a big difference between being a QB at Mississippi State (where you play Alabama, LSU, and other SEC teams) and being a QB at Troy. However, when you get to the Combine, you get a chance to actually see if that guy from Troy really measures up.

You'd obviously prefer to see them in pads playing a real game or 10, but that won't ever happen.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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Jeffery not running didn't really hurt him. He's still going to run at his pro day. He only helped his stock with that weigh in.
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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Jeffery not running didn't really hurt him. He's still going to run at his pro day. He only helped his stock with that weigh in.
Though, by putting all his eggs in one basket, if Jeffery doesn't run especially well at his pro day, he will have thoroughly torpedoed his stock.

Unless he runs sub 4.5 at his pro day, no way I'd take him in round 1.
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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Though, by putting all his eggs in one basket, if Jeffery doesn't run especially well at his pro day, he will have thoroughly torpedoed his stock.

Unless he runs sub 4.5 at his pro day, no way I'd take him in round 1.
What's the difference between not running well at the combine or not running well at the proday?
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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What's the difference between not running well at the combine or not running well at the proday?
Your pro day is a controlled environment. Your school and your team have done whatever needs to be done in order to assist you to be the best you can at the exact moment you run your 40, and perform in all position drills for that matter. The combine is a much more pressure packed, uncontrollable environment where players tend to do slightly worse than their own pro days. Due to these factors, if you wait until your pro day and still do not perform well, teams tend to look worse on that performance than a bad performance at the combine.
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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What's the difference between not running well at the combine or not running well at the proday?
He looks like a guy who is going to put in the minimal amount of effort in order to get drafted high, and nothing more when the major concern scouts have about Jeffrey is that while he plays hard, and he does absolutely nothing else hard.

I mean, I'm not saying that Jeffrey didn't do anything except drop wait in time for the combine weigh-in and he didn't run the 40 because he wasn't at all ready for it, but what has happened is darn near exactly what would have happened if that was the case.

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