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Old 03-01-2012, 12:03 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
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Default Who Will Rise as April Approaches?

There are always guys in April who we pegged as first rounders or second rounders that end up in or near the top ten picks. From what I hear these guys are going to go earlier than people right now are thinking they will:

OT Jonathan Martin

(2nd OT taken, Reiff being the 3rd)

DE Whitney Mercilus

(look at the Bills at #10 possibly)

RB Isaiah Pead

(kinda expected, 2nd or early 3rd rounder - but could be early 2nd as well. could compete with Lamar Miller as #3 back taken. teams might have issues with Miller's health.)

WR Stephen Hill

(we all know I'm not a big fan, but it's predictable that teams will fall in love with his upside. Could be the 3rd WR drafted, 4th at worst)



while I think these guys are not gonna go as high as currently projected:

WR Justin Blackmon

(6'1"/207/4.6+ possibly, not a downfield threat, look at no earlier than #7 to Jacksonville)

OLB Courtney Upshaw

(not a good combine even though he didn't work out. Don't expect him to put up good workout numbers at his pro day either)

OT Riley Reiff

( I mentioned this with Martin, but he'll be the #3 OT taken most likely and could drop)


that's what I've heard anyways from pretty reliable people. Now here are some guys I think will rise, not based off any inside info or anything, just my own intuition:

DT Dontari Poe


(Had an all-time great combine performance. He can play any position in a 4 or 3 man front. 3 tech, 0 tech, 5 tech, 1 tech. People say he was inconsistent but his DL coach at Memphis says that playing in a gap control system he didn't produce like his athleticism said he should've and that he'll be a "bigger Warren Sapp" in the NFL, that he's sure of. I think this guy goes either #9 to Carolina, #11 to KC, or higher. His one issue is his motor, taking plays off - and to prove that he's willing to address that he's still working out in Arizona even after his amazing combine. Sounds like a sure bet to become a HUGE riser)

DT Fletcher Cox


(Had an awesome combine as well. Prototypical 3 technique pass rusher that will no doubt go top 15 or top 20 for sure after his performance in Indy, combined with his junior year at MSU. Seahawks, Eagles, even Cowboys make a lot of sense for him. DTs like this don't fall on draft day.)
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:20 PM    (permalink
PossibleCabbage
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I like that you specified that it's our opinions of these guys that is currently off, rather than NFL teams changing their opinions. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Fletcher Cox is already the top ranked 3-tech on a lot of team's boards and has been for weeks.

Last edited by PossibleCabbage : 03-01-2012 at 12:26 PM. Reason: left "off" a word.
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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The stock of Potato should significantly rise come april.

Potato is an excellent source of Dietary Fiber, and performed extremely well in the saturated fat drills. A very versatile prospect, Potato can be utilized in almost any dinner scheme and has a thick, sturdy build.

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Old 03-01-2012, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
I like that you specified that it's our opinions of these guys that is currently, rather than NFL teams changing their opinions. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Fletcher Cox is already the top ranked 3-tech on a lot of team's boards and has been for weeks.
yes, this is what I'm getting at. In fact I think what I've heard comes from how the players are currently ranked on a couple team's boards.


and Jimmy, I agree about Potatoes. You avatar is great.
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Robert Turbin is a boss.
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Does Poe actually have any good game tape, or is he like Brockers? i.e. a freakish athlete that plays DT, therefore, people project him to the Panthers.
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Old 03-01-2012, 01:44 PM    (permalink
PossibleCabbage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miaoww View Post
Does Poe actually have any good game tape, or is he like Brockers? i.e. a freakish athlete that plays DT, therefore, people project him to the Panthers.
I doubt anybody here has ever seen "tape" (since "tape" refers to the 22s, which you just can't get), but if you're asking "Did Poe play well at Memphis?" the answer was "nowhere near the level you'd hope for." Both Poe and Brockers are projects and they have different things to work on. Poe has the movement skills and the explosion, but his technique is just so raw. Brockers has an unreal frame, and the technique is coming but the movement skills and explosion just aren't there.

I'm not sure if you don't see some more "pro-ready" DTs, like Cox, Still, Worthy, and Reyes go surprisingly high compared to the two guys who are projects in Poe and Brockers.
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Old 03-01-2012, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Yes, Kendall Reyes, Jerel Worthy, and Devon Still have been more productive than Michael Brockers and Dontari Poe, but teams are going to think they can mold these guys into superstars. Show me a coach who doesn't think they can take a massive body and develop it into something.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Yes, Kendall Reyes, Jerel Worthy, and Devon Still have been more productive than Michael Brockers and Dontari Poe, but teams are going to think they can mold these guys into superstars. Show me a coach who doesn't think they can take a massive body and develop it into something.
Some teams are going to prioritize immediacy (a team like Green Bay or New England would rather have a guy like Still or Cox, because they're obviously already close to the championship) whereas other teams are going to prioritize long-term impact (a team like Carolina or Kansas City, who will have to wait on the QB anyway, can afford to put the time in to develop a Poe or Brockers.)

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Old 03-01-2012, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
I doubt anybody here has ever seen "tape" (since "tape" refers to the 22s, which you just can't get), but if you're asking "Did Poe play well at Memphis?" the answer was "nowhere near the level you'd hope for." Both Poe and Brockers are projects and they have different things to work on. Poe has the movement skills and the explosion, but his technique is just so raw. Brockers has an unreal frame, and the technique is coming but the movement skills and explosion just aren't there.

I'm not sure if you don't see some more "pro-ready" DTs, like Cox, Still, Worthy, and Reyes go surprisingly high compared to the two guys who are projects in Poe and Brockers.
Who told you are were are you referring to that you can't get All-22 tape from college? You just can't get it from the NFL unless you're very high up.

I've had multiple All-22 tapes from colleges when I was evaluating for various sites. It's not difficult at all, to be honest. You just need to have some credibility, know who to talk to, and how to handle the situation.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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i too dont understand how turbin doesnt get more love. i think perry is another guy thats going to consistently move up boards.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:34 AM    (permalink
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My 3 potential risers:

1 Luke Kuechly ILB Boston College
Great combine and showed he's not only a awesome football player, but is also a underrated athlete that can move well for his size. He could sneak into the top 10, a team like the Eagles could trade up to ensure they get their guy.

2 Dontari Poe NT Memphis
Despite the lack of good game tape, Poe will go early in the 1st round and likely a top 15 pick. Carolina, KC, Dallas and NYJ will all look hard at Poe as a potential Ngata type player on the dline. Oustanding athlete that has grear potential.

3 Fletcher Cox DT Mississippi State
This draft lacks a stud pass inside, and Cox might have raised his stock enough to be considered the top guy. Cox stock could end up like Nick Fairley/Corey Luiget last year ending up in the teens somewhere. Cox can play DE in a 3-4 as well.

4 Nick Perry DE/OLB USC
After Melvin Ingram, I think Perry might end up being the 2nd OLB pass rusher to be drafted. Perry played great in the 2nd half of the season last year, and is a very good athlete. Teams need athletic pass rushers, and Perry will likely end up going somewhere in the top 20(fall no farther than Detroit at 23 if they lose Avril).
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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Mike Martin
Kirk Cousins
Brock Osweiler

Alshon Jeffrey - Higher than the board thinks
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:17 AM    (permalink
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I think the rumors of Jonathan Martins fall has been greatly exaggerated. He isn't a great run blocker but he has the tools to be a successful LT in the NFL so he isn't going to fall into the 2nd like some people have suggested. It's a passing league and some teams are stuck with J'Marcus Webb. People thought Sam Baker wasn't a first rounder any more and the Falcons traded back into the 1st to pick him up iirc.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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Rise:

Nick Perry
Fletcher Cox
Mark Barron
Alshon Jeffery

Those guys are amongst the best players in the draft and will go higher than they're projected to right now.

QBs - Kirk Cousins, Ryan Lindley, and Osweiler due to tools

Cousins and Lindley are really the sleepers there...
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
There are always guys in April who we pegged as first rounders or second rounders that end up in or near the top ten picks. From what I hear these guys are going to go earlier than people right now are thinking they will:

OT Jonathan Martin

(2nd OT taken, Reiff being the 3rd)

[SIZE="3"]
Quote:
Tough call, Martin has the feet for LT but he isn't all that physical while Reiff is considered a better version of Bulaga but more likely a better RT type.
Not sure either of these guys will go top 10 and if they do, Reiff seems the better prospect overall.

[/size]

DE Whitney Mercilus

(look at the Bills at #10 possibly)

Quote:
A strong possibility but I think maybe a little later than #10, however, you could be right on.


RB Isaiah Pead

(kinda expected, 2nd or early 3rd rounder - but could be early 2nd as well. could compete with Lamar Miller as #3 back taken. teams might have issues with Miller's health.)

Quote:
SIZE="4"]I've heard that Miller is now the #2 RB in the draft and a very likely 1st rounder so I cannot see Pead competing with him. Pead is a possible 2/3 rounder as a change of pace RB[/size]
WR Stephen Hill

(we all know I'm not a big fan, but it's predictable that teams will fall in love with his upside. Could be the 3rd WR drafted, 4th at worst)


Quote:
Mark me down as a huge fan, looks like he'll go round1/2 now with round 1 a strong possibility.

while I think these guys are not gonna go as high as currently projected:

WR Justin Blackmon

(6'1"/207/4.6+ possibly, not a downfield threat, look at no earlier than #7 to Jacksonville)

Quote:
I'm in full agreement although he could shock me with his 40 time at his pro day and run say a 4.46 like Fitzgerald did. If so, he will be a legitimate top 5 prospect otherwise, he could possibly take a plunge on draft day out of the top 10.
OLB Courtney Upshaw

(not a good combine even though he didn't work out. Don't expect him to put up good workout numbers at his pro day either)

Quote:
I fully agree, he was a huge disappointment during the LB drills and looks only suitable as a 4-3 DE now. Will need a hell of a pro day to recover.
OT Riley Reiff

( I mentioned this with Martin, but he'll be the #3 OT taken most likely and could drop)

Quote:
Still looks like #2 to me and I have heard anything negative except that perhaps he is better suited to play RT.

that's what I've heard anyways from pretty reliable people. Now here are some guys I think will rise, not based off any inside info or anything, just my own intuition:

DT Dontari Poe


(Had an all-time great combine performance. He can play any position in a 4 or 3 man front. 3 tech, 0 tech, 5 tech, 1 tech. People say he was inconsistent but his DL coach at Memphis says that playing in a gap control system he didn't produce like his athleticism said he should've and that he'll be a "bigger Warren Sapp" in the NFL, that he's sure of. I think this guy goes either #9 to Carolina, #11 to KC, or higher. His one issue is his motor, taking plays off - and to prove that he's willing to address that he's still working out in Arizona even after his amazing combine. Sounds like a sure bet to become a HUGE riser)

DT Fletcher Cox


(Had an awesome combine as well. Prototypical 3 technique pass rusher that will no doubt go top 15 or top 20 for sure after his performance in Indy, combined with his junior year at MSU. Seahawks, Eagles, even Cowboys make a lot of sense for him. DTs like this don't fall on draft day.)
I agree with both of these, they are obvious risers after the combine.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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I saw this linked to Tony Pauline's twitter. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but it is basically rankings compiled from teams' real draft boards throughout the NFL more or less. What is so interesting is that it backs up a lot of what I said in the original post of this thread - so that can mean one or both of these things: my info is legit, AND/OR they got the info from the same place of origin as me. Either way , this is great insight. You're welcome :P

http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=6198

the combines are done and now we moves into pro-days. NFL draft boards are taking shape. So who are to top 33 players gracing draft boards. We’ve gotten some insight from around the league and this is how it stacks up for teams.


1.Andrew Luck-QB-Stanford
2.Robert Griffin-QB-Baylor
3.Dontari Poe-NT-Memphis
4.Melvin Ingram-OLB-South Carolina
5.Trent Richardson-RB- Alabama
6. Matt Kalil-OT-USC
7-Justin Blackmon-WR-Oklahoma State
8.Morris Claiborne-CB-LSU
9.Fletcher Cox-DT-Mississippi State
10.Quinton Coples-DE-North Carolina
11.David DeCastro-OG-Stanford
12.Dre’ Kirkpatrick-CB-Alabama
13.Michael Brockers-DT-LSU
14.Jonathan Martin-OT-Stanford
15.Michael Floyd-WR- Notre Dame
16.Cordy Glenn-OL-Georgia
17.Devon Still-DT- Penn State
18. Whitney Mercilus-DE- Illinois
19.Coby Fleener-TE- Stanford
20.Nick Perry-DE- USC
21.Luke Kuechly-LB- Boston College
22.Kevin Zeitler-OG- Wisconsin
23.Ryan Tannehill-QB- Texas A&M
24.Doug Martin-RB- Boise State
25.Jerel Worthy-DT- Michigan State
26.Bobby Wagner-LB- Utah State
27.Stephon Gilmore-CB- South Carolina
28.Kendall Wright-WR- Baylor
29.Dwayne Allen-TE- Clemson
30.Donta Hightower-LB- Alabama
31.Kendall Reyes-DT- UConn
32.Stephen Hill-WR- Georgia Tech
33.Riley Reiff-OG- Iowa

Notes



- Stanford has four players in the top 32.

- Courtney Upshaw and Mark Barron are not ranked in the top 32.

- Janoris Jenkins does not make the list.

- Reiterating what we posted from Indianapolis, more and more teams starting to grade Riley Reiff as a guard.

- This is not our list, rather a list from what a number of teams board(s) look like; don’t kill the messenger!!
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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Did you seriously just predict Justin Blackmon to run a 4.6? I mean if he does, I'll eat crow, but 40 times are seriously overrated. If you don't have the best track positioning or stance, you're time can be thrown off. That means nothing in terms of football ability.

Blackmon plays fast, stronger than the rest of the WR s in this class, and has shown the ability to take over games. I'm not worried about how a guy works out in shorts in terms of track speed. I like the game tape, you know what ACTUALLY matters.

BTW, he didn't even run the 40 at the combine, but performed very well in drills.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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I just can't see it with Jonathan Martin. I don't see fire or intensity. I don't see someone who plays with a mean streak. I don't see anything to warrant a first round pick.

I just don't like anything about his game.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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Did you seriously just predict Justin Blackmon to run a 4.6? I mean if he does, I'll eat crow, but 40 times are seriously overrated. If you don't have the best track positioning or stance, you're time can be thrown off. That means nothing in terms of football ability.

Blackmon plays fast, stronger than the rest of the WR s in this class, and has shown the ability to take over games. I'm not worried about how a guy works out in shorts in terms of track speed. I like the game tape, you know what ACTUALLY matters.

BTW, he didn't even run the 40 at the combine, but performed very well in drills.
I don't disagree. I love Blackmon. I think he'll be very good. But historically the NFL doesn't like to take 6'1"/207 receivers who aren't that fast in the 5 picks. If he runs a faster time than expected I think he'll solidify himself as a top 5 pick....but it sounds like he's more likely to run in the 4.5 or 4.6 range - even on the fast track at Stillwater (and you know scouts sometimes add fractions of a second to a time on a fast surface). It's not a big drop, but I really could see him falling to #6 or 7 at least.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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Man, I just think Poe is too raw to be the #3 player in the draft. Ingram is probably being slept on though.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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I just can't see it with Jonathan Martin. I don't see fire or intensity. I don't see someone who plays with a mean streak. I don't see anything to warrant a first round pick.

I just don't like anything about his game.
To be fair guys who can protect the QB that are 6'5/305 and really athletic who are extreme hard workers and good technicians like Martin are usually liked more by the NFL than by fans. He isn't physical or nasty, and not the best run blocker, but I hear he will rise much like Trent Williams was a riser after everyone thought he had a poor senior year. Great for a ZBS with good upside and good character. I can see it.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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To be fair guys who can protect the QB that are 6'5/305 and really athletic who are extreme hard workers and good technicians like Martin are usually liked more by the NFL than by fans. He isn't physical or nasty, and not the best run blocker, but I hear he will rise much like Trent Williams was a riser after everyone thought he had a poor senior year. Great for a ZBS with good upside and good character. I can see it.
Martin isn't in the same stratosphere athletically as Trent Williams.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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Man, I just think Poe is too raw to be the #3 player in the draft. Ingram is probably being slept on though.
Raw in what way? What technical deficiencies do you see in his game?
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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Martin isn't in the same stratosphere athletically as Trent Williams.
He's not gonna go #4 overall either. He'll probably be a top 15 pick though.

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Raw in what way? What technical deficiencies do you see in his game?
to play devil's advocate, he doesn't have good technique, not great use of hands. lots of things that get taught to players in the NFL that causes them to explode into all-pro players like Jason Pierre-Paul.
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