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Old 03-06-2012, 06:00 AM    (permalink
BeerBaron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mqtirishfan View Post
For the record, I think a "death penalty" for an NFL team is horrendously stupid. The league isn't going to contract, so all it would do is make the Saints weaker for a few years and make them hire new people and sign free agents instead of draft top talent. You can't force them to use fewer players or not sign free agents, so either the Saints would become a middle of the pack team or they'd bottom out in time for getting their draft picks back.
Not what I said at all. Lifetime bans for their GM and head coach plus taking away two years worth of draft picks would cripple the team.

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Originally Posted by hoekd0250 View Post
This is being so overblown honestly. This happens on every team on every level: nfl, college, and high school. I mean as I said before just a few years ago when i was in High School we were rewarded Crunch bars for decleaters. What do people think players get the stickers on there helmets for in college. What is the pancake stat. I dont see this as a big deal. I mean no player really is going to purposely go out and end a guys career with an illegal hit, because not only will fans critizize them, other teams will put an x on there back, and i gaurantee even there own teammates would lose respect for the guy. Guys play the game for glory and prestige and that only comes with clean hits not dirty ones. Guys can get hurt with clean hits its part of the game.
Completely irrelevant. Go get a speeding ticket, take it to court, and try to tell the judge that "everybody does it."

The Saints case was apparently grievous enough to draw the league's attention and they're going to suffer the consequences.

Regardless of how you feel on the "intent to injure vs. simply playing hard" debate, paying bounties of any kind for any reason to players is against the rules. Throw in the fact that Sean Payton's marketing agent supplied bounty money and Mickey Loomis lied and tried to cover everything up, and it only adds to eventual punishment they'll receive.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:17 AM    (permalink
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Didn't Sean Payton get caught up in a pain pill controversy a year or so ago?

He somehow dodged that bullet but he's not going to get away clean this time.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:28 AM    (permalink
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yea he was, i still remember posting about it.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Didn't Sean Payton get caught up in a pain pill controversy a year or so ago?

He somehow dodged that bullet but he's not going to get away clean this time.
A bunch of Vicodin turned up missing from the Saints facility. Payton and LB coach Joe Vitt were found guilty in that one but nothing was done.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:35 AM    (permalink
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Here's Gregg Williams' penalty record during all the years he was defensive coordinator going back to the 01 season in BUF
http://footballoutsiders.com/extra-p...penalty-record
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:37 AM    (permalink
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Slaughtergate!
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:43 AM    (permalink
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I'm seeing more and more written in favor of a lifetime ban for Gregg Williams.

This is still so crazy seeming. It's not quite as serious (or at least serious in a different way,) but it reminds me of a few years back when it was first reported that a property that Michael Vick owned was busted for dog fighting. That then grew like crazy.

A week ago we knew nothing about this. Now, lifetime bans, suspensions, huge fines. IRS trouble, loss of draft picks...this really blew up quickly.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:43 AM    (permalink
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Also, it's not even that the Saints were running this program. It's that they were already told by the NFL office to stop and continued to do it anyway. If they listened the first time the penalty wouldn't be nearly as harsh as it's going to be now.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:45 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Also, it's not even that the Saints were running this program. It's that they were already told by the NFL office to stop and continued to do it anyway. If they listened the first time the penalty wouldn't be nearly as harsh as it's going to be now.
I still think if it proves true that Payton's agent was also putting up bounty money, **** is going to get even crazier. As soon as you get a 3rd party involved, the NFL is going to start thinking "what would stop big gamblers from doing something similar?" and really go axe crazy with the punishments.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
I still think if it proves true that Payton's agent was also putting up bounty money, **** is going to get even crazier. As soon as you get a 3rd party involved, the NFL is going to start thinking "what would stop big gamblers from doing something similar?" and really go axe crazy with the punishments.
Speaking of him here is a good article about him and his involvement. Apparently he was also a big part of Reggie Bush's USC scandal. WCH is right, Ornstein's involvement is going to be the worst part of the scandal.

Quote:
Ornstein on at least four occasions pledged his own money to the Saints' defense's bounty fund. In 2009, $10,000 toward knocking an opposing quarterback out of the game. In 2011, two separate contributions to targeting the quarterback. And on at least one other occasion, Ornstein pledged his money in an email to Payton, which spelled out the details of the bounty program.
http://deadspin.com/5890499/meet-the...bounty-program

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Old 03-06-2012, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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I'm seeing more and more written in favor of a lifetime ban for Gregg Williams.

This is still so crazy seeming. It's not quite as serious (or at least serious in a different way,) but it reminds me of a few years back when it was first reported that a property that Michael Vick owned was busted for dog fighting. That then grew like crazy.

A week ago we knew nothing about this. Now, lifetime bans, suspensions, huge fines. IRS trouble, loss of draft picks...this really blew up quickly.
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If a girl is sucking me off, and I look down and shes beating off a **** of her own, I am absolutely going to tell her to stop. 100% of the time. Explain that ****.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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"PLAYER SAFETY, LAWSUITS, INTEGRITY OF THE GAME, RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH...

....so how 'bout that 18 game season, you guys?" - Roger Goodell
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Steady Lurkin View Post
"PLAYER SAFETY, LAWSUITS, INTEGRITY OF THE GAME, RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH...
Things that DO NOT make the NFL money.

Quote:
....so how 'bout that 18 game season, you guys?" - Roger Goodell
Things that DO make the NFL money.

Is the major difference there.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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Fun nuggets:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ulture-change/

Quote:
...Goodell is furious about the bounties and planning to take severe action.
Quote:
...when Goodell first heard the allegations of the Saints paying bounties, the commissioner said, “God forbid this is true. This will be earth-shattering.”
Quote:
Former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams appears to be in very deep trouble with Goodell, as comparisons continue to be raised with the 1963 case in which Commissioner Pete Rozelle suspended Paul Hornung and Alex Karras for an entire season for their involvement in gambling. According to King, when Goodell first confronted Williams with evidence that he had been involved in paying bounties, Williams denied it, which will surely not win Williams any points.
Quote:
Saints head coach Sean Payton may be in big trouble as well, with one league source involved in the investigation saying the way Payton ran things “Reminds me of the Nixon White House.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
not entirely true. player safety for highly marketable players makes the nfl money. the nfl would see ensuring that tom brady (for instance) doesn't miss another season as highly in its own interest.
The "lawsuits" from the former players demanding obscene sums of money for their injuries is the part where the losing money comes from.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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This has serious potential for me...I'd at least be stress free for the regular season before we lose round 1!
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
commissioner said, “God forbid this is true. This will be earth-shattering.”
Sounds like a line from a corny movie. Anyway I don't know its earth shattering since it already happen in the NFL and college football.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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Sounds like a line from a corny movie. Anyway I don't know its earth shattering since it already happen in the NFL and college football.
Seriously. Goodell is such a goddam drama queen.

Though, to be fair, he probably only meant the way the media would run it would be earth shattering, in which case he's right. Every outlet is feeding the idiot masses the same nonsense and we all know how easy it is for the idiot masses to soak that **** up like a giant, ******** sponge.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Boo, page trapped!

Quote:
Fun nuggets:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ulture-change/

Quote:
...Goodell is furious about the bounties and planning to take severe action.
Quote:
...when Goodell first heard the allegations of the Saints paying bounties, the commissioner said, “God forbid this is true. This will be earth-shattering.”
Quote:
Former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams appears to be in very deep trouble with Goodell, as comparisons continue to be raised with the 1963 case in which Commissioner Pete Rozelle suspended Paul Hornung and Alex Karras for an entire season for their involvement in gambling. According to King, when Goodell first confronted Williams with evidence that he had been involved in paying bounties, Williams denied it, which will surely not win Williams any points.
Quote:
Saints head coach Sean Payton may be in big trouble as well, with one league source involved in the investigation saying the way Payton ran things “Reminds me of the Nixon White House.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
not entirely true. player safety for highly marketable players makes the nfl money. the nfl would see ensuring that tom brady (for instance) doesn't miss another season as highly in its own interest.
The "lawsuits" from the former players demanding obscene sums of money for their injuries is the part where the losing money comes from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLDirtyBirds View Post
This has serious potential for me...I'd at least be stress free for the regular season before we lose round 1!
You might even get to host that first round loss! That's like winning the Superbowl to the Falcons!
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he's talking about the channels; I think he's talking about the content between sporting events.
Perhaps, but I think he just liked to *****, or listen to himself speak.

Speaking of giggles..... Goodell being called a "drama queen". That one is funny.

Everyone loves to ***** about the man in charge.
Rebels.

The facts are, as BeerBarron has pointed out, is that there are millions and millions of dollars at stake vs the NFL in lawsuits by former players for not taking measures to reduce injuries, and here we have a whole ogranization who was paying their guys extra money to inflict injuries.

What's so hard for a few people to grasp about that?

I hope Sean Payton is banned from the league like Pete Rose was.
You think THAT would send a statement? Would that stop assistant coaches from allowing it to happen?

I know we have a lot of punks who talk tough and act like injuries are fine, but these are people getting injured, severely, and those in charge of the league must take all steps they can to remove as much risk of injury as possible.

Not just natural grass, better equipment, etc. but also strongly enforcing all rules that can reduce some risk.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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I don't know why we have to keep establishing this. Every team does NOT do this because every team doesn't have the coaching staff running it. It usually a player thing. Big difference. Also, the Saints got caught and no one else did. "Everyone else does it too" has never been and never will be a good excuse in these situations.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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It's kind of unfortunate that guys like Payton and Williams could be suspended for long periods of time. Both are masterful X's and O's guys, and I love watching their respective units play so much. Gregg Williams has always had one of my favorite defenses to watch, you gotta give it up for a guy willing to bring the heat every play. I guess the whole bounty thing kind of explains that though...Boo.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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i would've assumed that those were paid out of insurance, rather than league coffers. it probably hurts the NFL's premium, but i can't imagine that's a really substantive effect. either way, i'm just being pedantic.
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Old 03-06-2012, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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Ryan Clark is the truth...

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Old 03-06-2012, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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Joe Horn sounds off on "bounties" in the NFL. Good stuff here and keep in mind he played for the Chiefs, Saints, and Falcons.

http://msn.foxsports.com/video/NFL?v...Home/headlines
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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"Everyone else does it too" has never been and never will be a good excuse in these situations.
That's because it's a logical fallacy.
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