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Old 03-02-2012, 11:43 PM    (permalink
OzTitan
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The Saints may have been more respectable but they were also the Aints. The bounty driven Saints have a ring. Welcome to the NFL.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:45 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Originally Posted by OzTitan View Post
The Saints may have been more respectable but they were also the Aints. The bounty driven Saints have a ring. Welcome to the NFL.
There's also a term called respect and integrity. Playing dirty like the Aints isn't something to be proud of, especially if you're out to cause harm to other players. That's down right scummy and proves they need to take players out of the ball game by injury to win ball games.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bored of education View Post
Take away this year's franchise tag and watch the commotion. I saw this idea on Twitter.
That is freeking brilliant!!!!
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:47 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
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That is freeking brilliant!!!!
Haha it would be. They're struggling to sign Brees now. Can't imagine what they'd do if they didn't have a 2nd option. It's almost guranteed Nicks and Colston flee.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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Haha it would be. They're struggling to sign Brees now. Can't imagine what they'd do if they didn't have a 2nd option. It's almost guranteed Nicks and Colston flee.
Bucs should try to sign Colston. That would be huge.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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Bucs should try to sign Colston. That would be huge.
Whyn ot both Nicks and Colston? They got the money.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
The Saints were once and used to always be a respectable franchise until now. Paying players incentives to injure and hurt other players?

As a Buc fan, I still had respect and wished the Saints well whenever Tampa was not playing them or out of contention. However, now that I read this I'm not surprised. There were a lot of times I questioned the style of play of certain players, especially Roman Harper, and Jon Vilma. They seemed very dirty with there play.

I wish the worst for this Franchise and hope Goodell comes hard on them. Take away there 2nd rounder this year and 1st rounder in 2013, as a minimum punishment. Another one I'd like to see is take away there Franchise Tag option this year, but that's just being greedy as a Buc fan to see them fall : )
As a Saints fan, it seems to me that the NFL is going to make an example of New Orleans. This is not the first, nor will it be the last time that something like this has/will happen.

Someone earlier brought up the "Body Bag" game, another one I like to bring up are the 1989's "Bounty Bowls" between the Eagles and the Cowboys. I mean, the whole bounty system has been going on probably since the beginning of the NFL.

Sadly, the Saints were the ones with their hands caught in the cookie jar. And like someone posted earlier, with the league wanting to crack down on teams due to safety concerns, New Orleans will have the book thrown at them.

The fact that Williams admitted his guilt after he joined the Rams' staff, makes you wonder if, he indeed knew the "stuff" was going to hit the fan and tried to get the hell out of Dodge. That said, he deserves to get hit with some penalty as well, but I don't know if that will happen.

At the minimum, the Saints are going to have to forfeit their second rounder this year, pay a huge fine and could possibly lose next year's first rounder and have suspensions for Sean Payton and possibly cost Payton or general manager Mickey Loomis their jobs.

(P.S. -- I find it laughable if you thought of the Saints as a "respectable franchise"... I guess you mean since 2009...)
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by A Perfect Score View Post
Wow, I go to lunch and this is what I miss. Obviously if the Saints were intentionally trying to injure players, they should and will be penalized.
No, BBD says that's just part of football, and today's NFL offensive players are soft and p*ssies.

How much greater would the NFL be if the top 10 QBs were knocked out for the year because bounties were made legal and encouraged.
Toughen these p*ssies of today up on offense.
Encourage more hits to the knees like put on Adrian Peterson and Tom Brady.
Let's have real men out there who's ACLs are stronger.

And WRs? None of em have been paralyzed recently because the NFL won't allow hard hits on them. WRs today are soft, p*ssies.












^ This is a knee-hunter, as Falcons nation and FB found out last year when he was defenseless on a screen catch, turned around, and as he did, Delmas aimed for and took out his knee.
Found it:

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Old 03-02-2012, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Saints Dome Patrol View Post
As a Saints fan, it seems to me that the NFL is going to make an example of New Orleans. This is not the first, nor will it be the last time that something like this has/will happen.

Someone earlier brought up the "Body Bag" game, another one I like to bring up are the 1989's "Bounty Bowls" between the Eagles and the Cowboys. I mean, the whole bounty system has been going on probably since the beginning of the NFL.

Sadly, the Saints were the ones with their hands caught in the cookie jar. And like someone posted earlier, with the league wanting to crack down on teams due to safety concerns, New Orleans will have the book thrown at them.

The fact that Williams admitted his guilt after he joined the Rams' staff, makes you wonder if, he indeed knew the "stuff" was going to hit the fan and tried to get the hell out of Dodge. That said, he deserves to get hit with some penalty as well, but I don't know if that will happen.

At the minimum, the Saints are going to have to forfeit their second rounder this year, pay a huge fine and could possibly lose next year's first rounder and have suspensions for Sean Payton and possibly cost Payton or general manager Mickey Loomis their jobs.

(P.S. -- I find it laughable if you thought of the Saints as a "respectable franchise"... I guess you mean since 2009...)
Actually, since 2006, when Payton took over. Guess I was wrong pretty much.
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
No, BBD says that's just part of football, and today's NFL offensive players are soft and p*ssies.

How much greater would the NFL be if the top 10 QBs were knocked out for the year because bounties were made legal and encouraged.
Toughen these p*ssies of today up on offense.
Encourage more hits to the knees like put on Adrian Peterson and Tom Brady.
Let's have real men out there who's ACLs are stronger.

And WRs? None of em have been paralyzed recently because the NFL won't allow hard hits on them. WRs today are soft, p*ssies.

^ This is a knee-hunter, as Falcons nation and FB found out last year when he was defenseless on a screen catch, turned around, and as he did, Delmas aimed for and took out his knee.
Found it:
How many people did the saints take out with "dirty illegal" hits? How many WR's have been paralyzed? all can think of is one.
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Plenty of guys have already come out and said that this has been going on in most locker rooms for a long time.

This is only news to us fans. The Saints are in trouble because they got caught, that's all.

This was just bad timing, bc the league is going to come down hard on them bc this hurts their "agenda"
I think we need to get a few things straight here. That Saints are being punished because they broke the rules. "Everybody does it" is up there with "we were just following orders" on the list of excuses that don't cut it. You say they weren't only being paid to injure players, they were paid for others things. Well, that's a little like saying "sure your honour, I paid him to shoot my neighbour, but I also paid him to mow the lawn."

The league's 'agenda' should always be enforcing the rules of the competition, but beyond the implications for the salary cap which are the more serious issue from a rules standpoint I think there is a moral case to answer here. When any of us that play sport (whether contact or not) we play it hard. We run until our lungs burn, we get angry with calls, we hit and we get hit, and afterwards we drag our battered bodies down to the pub. That's natural. But there are rules, and lines you don't cross, and quite frankly anyone who licks his lips in anticipation of an opponent going home in an ambulance is a psychopath.

Sometimes people get hurt, accidents happen when you've got people in their physical prime smacking into each other all day long, but rewarding the player that did it seems crass at best. Actively encouraging a player to injure someone, and claiming that they're just going to 'hit harder but entirely legally' is naive. It has nothing at all to do with a sport being 'pussified.'
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:37 AM    (permalink
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What is being reported is not the entire story. It's typical media, they're taking 1 part of what actually happened, and they are emphasizing that one point.

Yes, they got paid for dishing out hits that resulted in injuries. But they weren't only paid for that. They were paid for other positive plays as well.


This shows that they actually got rewarded MORE for NOT getting the guy carted off. If you make a great play that's clean that results in injury, yeah you will get paid, but the EXTENT of the injury did NOT result in a higher payment.
If you can't see that there's a problem with equating an interception/fumble with injuring a person, or giving someone $1,000 if their actions result in a person getting carted off the field, I don't think this debate is going to go anywhere but in a circle.
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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This is a big deal and will result in strict discipline for 2 reasons:

1. It goes against the player safety politics that the league is enforcing in an attempt to justify an 18 game season in the future, as well as protect themselves against lawsuits by ex players.

2. It is in direct violation of the league rules, which states you can't pay players off the table for anything outside of the realms of their contracts.


That's why the punishment will be significant. The morality of this issue is being way overblown however. We act like this is some kind of inhumane occurrence that no one else would do. And that's so inaccurate it's not even funny. This is something that goes on in every locker room, and is encouraged in every locker room.

This is not some immoral violation of the Saints. It's a legal violation, but not an immoral one. Every team does it. Every team is aware of it. It's part of football culture.
I'm with you, BBD. Epic stupidity on the Saints part, but that doesn't change the fact that everything you've written out here is dead on. You've basically done a nice job of writing up the long version of my snarky first post here.

Unless there's something more sinister, anyway. Personally, I'm thinking the injury / cart $$ was an additional bonus and I still don't consider it something we should all have our panties in a twist about. QB sack = $$. QB hurt on sack = more $$. Pay for performance within the rules is just not that sinister. Guys get hurt on good football plays all the time. Assuming this system was advocating injury from dirty plays is asinine, which is the media's forte.

More could come out to change my opinion on this, obviously.
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
This is a big deal and will result in strict discipline for 2 reasons:

1. It goes against the player safety politics that the league is enforcing in an attempt to justify an 18 game season in the future, as well as protect themselves against lawsuits by ex players.

2. It is in direct violation of the league rules, which states you can't pay players off the table for anything outside of the realms of their contracts.


That's why the punishment will be significant. The morality of this issue is being way overblown however. We act like this is some kind of inhumane occurrence that no one else would do. And that's so inaccurate it's not even funny. This is something that goes on in every locker room, and is encouraged in every locker room.

This is not some immoral violation of the Saints. It's a legal violation, but not an immoral one. Every team does it. Every team is aware of it. It's part of football culture.

Wait. So because more than one team does it it's okay? Intentionally causing injury to someone else is alright? Stop twisting this in a way that makes it seem like everyone who thinks it's wrong is against physical football. The league has gone too far in making the league "safe" but what the Saints did is "immoral" in every goddamn sense of the word. Paying others to intentionally injure someone else is unarguably immoral, there is no justification. You can play physical football without resorting to cheap shots, I don't understand where there is any gray area here.

It seems like it's the cool thing to do lately on here to act like things like this aren't a big deal, but it ******* is. Permanent injuries happen in the NFL, and that's just the way that it is. But to go out of your way to increase the chances of it? **** that. **** everything about that.

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Old 03-03-2012, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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You know if the Saints as an organization and a team dont implode before the start of the season i fully expect for every man, woman,and child on an NFL team to try to buttfuck the **** out of Brees.
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:58 AM    (permalink
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This bad. Players will be more tight lipped about it now. Saints get trouble, lose pick(s), get fine.
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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I'm with you, BBD. Epic stupidity on the Saints part, but that doesn't change the fact that everything you've written out here is dead on. You've basically done a nice job of writing up the long version of my snarky first post here.

Unless there's something more sinister, anyway. Personally, I'm thinking the injury / cart $$ was an additional bonus and I still don't consider it something we should all have our panties in a twist about. QB sack = $$. QB hurt on sack = more $$. Pay for performance within the rules is just not that sinister. Guys get hurt on good football plays all the time. Assuming this system was advocating injury from dirty plays is asinine, which is the media's forte.

More could come out to change my opinion on this, obviously.
Just because they didn't advocate dirty play, doesn't mean a monetary reward for injuries doesn't create the impetus for dirty play.

I'm not great with analogies, but in my mind it's like telling a cab driver he'll get a $50 tip if he get's you to the airport in 10 minutes. You're not telling him to break the law, but you're definitely going to make him think about doing it.
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:05 AM    (permalink
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John Clayton is reporting that the punishment is expected to be much harder than the Patriots were punished for Spygate and could be multiple draft picks. PFT is reporting that the league should consider to remove the Saints' franchise tag. Surely taking the Saints' franchise tag would be the equivalent of the death penalty. Losing Brees and Nicks would expose their defense and they'd be back to sucking in no time.

I just hope this means that Gregg Williams never work in the NFL again. He's such a dick. I will do cartwheels of joy if he's kicked out of the league.
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:13 AM    (permalink
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They should've just consulted this guy.



He knows a thing or two about bounties.

If somebody already posted this, DAMN THEM!
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:55 AM    (permalink
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Bears lost Earl Bennett on a real cheap shot and Carimi was hurt too :/ Cutler was kicked to the throat. DAMNIT WE COULDVE BEEN IN THE PLAYOFFS!
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Old 03-03-2012, 05:08 AM    (permalink
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John Clayton is reporting that the punishment is expected to be much harder than the Patriots were punished for Spygate and could be multiple draft picks. PFT is reporting that the league should consider to remove the Saints' franchise tag. Surely taking the Saints' franchise tag would be the equivalent of the death penalty. Losing Brees and Nicks would expose their defense and they'd be back to sucking in no time.

I just hope this means that Gregg Williams never work in the NFL again. He's such a dick. I will do cartwheels of joy if he's kicked out of the league.
During the Spygate drama, I do seem to remember BB being told that he'd be out of the league if he got caught doing anything like that again. I wouldn't rule out a lower-profile coach being suspended, if not banned. Especially given the PR situation: the average football fan didn't understand WTF Spygate was even about, or why it was frowned upon by the league office; but the average fan certainly understands that paying somebody to intentionally injure somebody else is something that is typically only done by "bad guys."

Personally, I'm hoping that they lose their franchise tag just because I think it'd be funny. It was, what, two days ago that they were reporting that Loomis wanted to pay Brees like a "good" but not "great" QB?

Loomis has been a very good GM for a historically bad franchise, but the negative PR over the past few days is going to get his ass fired.

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Old 03-03-2012, 06:37 AM    (permalink
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:50 AM    (permalink
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http://m.youtube.com/?rdm=4ozmbjtgj&...?v=u6XAPnuFjJc
This video will explain why this incentive didn't necessarily lead to productivity. Interesting concept I learned in school.
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Old 03-03-2012, 07:02 AM    (permalink
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So the players were paid for making big hits not injuring players? I have no problem with that, thats basically a bonus for playing well.
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Old 03-03-2012, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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So the players were paid for making big hits not injuring players? I have no problem with that, thats basically a bonus for playing well.
They were given bonuses if players were carted off the field or knocked out of the game.
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