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Old 03-13-2012, 12:00 AM    (permalink
descendency
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This is not 32 separate corporations dealing with each other and able to sue each other based on all things being written in stone.
Except they are. That's how they avoid anti-trust litigation.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:49 AM    (permalink
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I thought the CBA prevented the anti-trust litigation. That brought on the Brady et al. suit last year.
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:11 AM    (permalink
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The league would have far more legal resources than any individual owner. The league is set up as a partnership and the owners have agreed that the Commissioner has certain rights to dole out fines, etc. It is a majority rules environment and i don't think it is really subject to the legal system. This is not 32 separate corporations dealing with each other and able to sue each other based on all things being written in stone. If the other owners are behind the Commissioner on this, these two owners are hooped.
I think Dan Snyder can cobble together a crew of mercenary attorneys on par with anything the NFL Commissioner's office can put together.

The legal argument on the owner's side simply isn't sound. If the SKins/Cowboys etc. were in violation of league rules by front loading contracts in an uncapped year, but 'rule' the league office SHOULD NOT HAVE APPROVED those deals in 2010.

THe NFL can't have it both ways, I don't care how much authority they're granted by the other 30 measly owners.

If I own a store and sell you an item that's listed as 'not for sale', I can't report you to authorities two years later as having stolen that item from me.

I don't know about Jerruh, but Snyder has a planetary sized ego and a minor temper problem.( I miss the days when he would cuss out Norv Turner in the locker room after losing to Dallas.)

The Commissioner works for ALL the owners, just not the ones who whine the loudest because they hate to spend money.

I imagine this is what the next Owner's meeting will look like between Danny Boy(Joe Pesci) and Roger Goodell(Ray Liotta).


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Old 03-13-2012, 08:08 AM    (permalink
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While I'm personally enjoying this, this punishment is a ton of bull.

The Cowboys and Redskins did not break any rules. They broke an illegal "handshake" agreement amongst the owners during the lockout to collude.

There is no grounds for this punishment, and I'm surprised the Cowboys and Redskins aren't fighting it through an arbitrator.

Goodell is out of control. He needs to go.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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While I'm personally enjoying this, this punishment is a ton of bull.

The Cowboys and Redskins did not break any rules. They broke an illegal "handshake" agreement amongst the owners during the lockout to collude.

There is no grounds for this punishment, and I'm surprised the Cowboys and Redskins aren't fighting it through an arbitrator.

Goodell is out of control. He needs to go.
Well defiant statements from both teams along with a COMPLETE gag put on the entire NFL front office and affiliated network makes me think this may already be in court or at least in front of an arbitrator. Why else would the FO refuse to comment and NFLN give it zero play?

Lombardi mentioned the cap space issue and the rest of the crew looked at him like he had a 3rd eye.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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Dallas and Washington were not the only teams that were dumping huge salaries into the 2010 uncapped year, so I don't understand why they were the only ones hit with the penalty. Check the spoiler, here are 9 examples of other teams dumping money:



Peppers had a 35M cap hit in 2010 but that's not taking advantage of the system?

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Old 03-13-2012, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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Apparently, according to the NFL, it is not.

I still find the fan reaction hilarious. The NFL found that what your team did was wrong, and they are now paying the price. I love it.

It's like the Saints fans who were all like "but everyone does it!" Ha, apparently not. That excuse won't hold up in a real court of law...ever...and it won't here.

"But I have other examples!!" Apparently not. Your teams got in trouble and no others did. There was apparently a difference in the eyes of the league.

And I love it.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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Apparently, according to the NFL, it is not.

I still find the fan reaction hilarious. The NFL found that what your team did was wrong, and they are now paying the price. I love it.

It's like the Saints fans who were all like "but everyone does it!" Ha, apparently not. That excuse won't hold up in a real court of law...ever...and it won't here.

"But I have other examples!!" Apparently not. Your teams got in trouble and no others did. There was apparently a difference in the eyes of the league.

And I love it.
Correction. 28 NFL owners threw a hissy fit and penalized 4 owners for not abiding by an illegal handshake agreement.

Most be fun being so smug when presented with the same amount of information as everyone else.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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Apparently, according to the NFL, it is not.

I still find the fan reaction hilarious. The NFL found that what your team did was wrong, and they are now paying the price. I love it.

It's like the Saints fans who were all like "but everyone does it!" Ha, apparently not. That excuse won't hold up in a real court of law...ever...and it won't here.

"But I have other examples!!" Apparently not. Your teams got in trouble and no others did. There was apparently a difference in the eyes of the league.

And I love it.
Well if the NFL didn't like what the Cowboys and Redskins were doing with their contracts then why the hell did Goodell's office approve the moves prior to the 2010 season? It makes no sense. You can't turn around 2 years later and say "I know we approved of these contracts back then but looking back now we really don't like how it's played out, so you're going to have to pay a penalty". That's ridiculous, you can't make up new rules after the fact.

Uncapped means uncapped, the NFL would never win this case in a court of law. All they have to stand on is a backdoor handshake agreement.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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They had to approve the contract at the time or else the NFLPA would have been all over them. And keep it mind this was a sensitive time as the new CBA was in forefront. So the owners agreed to do certain things and if some disobeyed they would get penalized. And the 2 (or 4) owners were. Given that neither of the 2 teams is declaring war on this issue it seems clear they know they nothing to stand on. We can conjecture all day long but as long as neither team puts up a fight on this we KNOW they have no legal leg to stand on.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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They had to approve the contract at the time or else the NFLPA would have been all over them. And keep it mind this was a sensitive time as the new CBA was in forefront. So the owners agreed to do certain things and if some disobeyed they would get penalized. And the 2 (or 4) owners were. Given that neither of the 2 teams is declaring war on this issue it seems clear they know they nothing to stand on. We can conjecture all day long but as long as neither team puts up a fight on this we KNOW they have no legal leg to stand on.
Stay tuned.

The Skins and Cowboys were only informed yesterday. This has yet to play out to its conclusion.
BTW the NFL Commissioner did not have to approve contracts he knew would be in violation of a future CBA.

You can't have fuzzy bylaws and expect all members to comply.

There's no way the NFL has a stronger case in court than Dallas/Washington. What makes it even trickier is why were some contract dumps and teams singled out, and others not?? It not only looks arbitrary, it has the appearance of direct bias.

Good luck arguing that in court.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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Stay tuned.

The Skins and Cowboys were only informed yesterday. This has yet to play out to its conclusion.
BTW the NFL Commissioner did not have to approve contracts he knew would be in violation of a future CBA.

You can't have fuzzy bylaws and expect all members to comply.

There's no way the NFL has a stronger case in court than Dallas/Washington. What makes it even trickier is why were some contract dumps and teams singled out, and others not?? It not only looks arbitrary, it has the appearance of direct bias.

Good luck arguing that in court.
Again though, the NFL is a corporation that has 32 FRANCHISES. Much like a fast food chain a franchise owner can be kicked out, etc based on whatever agreement is in place. We don't know what the agreement is between the league and the franchise owners. What we do know is the league gives enormous powers to the league office. Take spygate, the Pats lost draft picks but never sued. I think historically, Al Davis may have been the only owner to actually sue the league? If the agreement between them says the league can do these types of things as long as the majority of owners concur then these 2 teams are hooped.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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Again though, the NFL is a corporation that has 32 FRANCHISES. Much like a fast food chain a franchise owner can be kicked out, etc based on whatever agreement is in place. We don't know what the agreement is between the league and the franchise owners. What we do know is the league gives enormous powers to the league office. Take spygate, the Pats lost draft picks but never sued. I think historically, Al Davis may have been the only owner to actually sue the league? If the agreement between them says the league can do these types of things as long as the majority of owners concur then these 2 teams are hooped.
Careful with that argument. The league avoids anti-trust litigation because it doesn't go what is implied here. The league had an illegal (i.e. violated anti-trust law) handshake agreement that teams would not overspend despite no cap being in place. The NFLPA allowed the penalties to happen (and hereby waive the right to take the NFL to court for more anti-trust violations) in exchange for a better offer on the salary cap. The initial offers was ~113 million and the end result was 120 million without additional NFLPA concessions. Add in the penalty money was spread throughout the entire league and it allows Gene to take a raw deal for the players but come out in prime position to get re-elected.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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Apparently, according to the NFL, it is not.

I still find the fan reaction hilarious. The NFL found that what your team did was wrong, and they are now paying the price. I love it.

It's like the Saints fans who were all like "but everyone does it!" Ha, apparently not. That excuse won't hold up in a real court of law...ever...and it won't here.

"But I have other examples!!" Apparently not. Your teams got in trouble and no others did. There was apparently a difference in the eyes of the league.

And I love it.
Not really. Dude, all contracts need to be approved through the league office. It was a BS ruling. What did they do? Break a promise? They did nothing contractually wrong.

It doesn't really hurt the Cowboys anyway, but it's a garbage ruling nonetheless. I bet you they fight it and it gets reduced anyway. Not to mention the cap is going to skyrocket next year so it isn't that big of a deal because they can push most to next year.

BBD is a giants fan and one of the most respected posters on this site and even he said it's wrong. It's not homer fans complaining, it's true that this ruling was wrong.

IT WAS AN UNCAPPED YEAR. The NFL is joke now.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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Careful with that argument. The league avoids anti-trust litigation because it doesn't go what is implied here. The league had an illegal (i.e. violated anti-trust law) handshake agreement that teams would not overspend despite no cap being in place. The NFLPA allowed the penalties to happen (and hereby waive the right to take the NFL to court for more anti-trust violations) in exchange for a better offer on the salary cap. The initial offers was ~113 million and the end result was 120 million without additional NFLPA concessions. Add in the penalty money was spread throughout the entire league and it allows Gene to take a raw deal for the players but come out in prime position to get re-elected.

I would guess that there are many handshake deals the owners make that are not written or on public record. This is an exclusive club full of egomaniacs. If you want to be a part of the club you have to play by the rules, written or unwritten. I would be surprised if Jones and Synder took this to court, they may appeal internally but going outside the club and essentially suing the other owners could have all kinds of consequences. If Jones wants another Super Bowl for example, he has to sing from the same songbook. If the league and the NFLPA is on side with this judgement, I would again guess it would not be in these 2 teams best interests to poke a stick at it.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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unwritten rule, and its not an NFL thing, more so its their fellow peers(owners) voting to apply the rule.

As for the contract getting approved by the league office, they approve all contracts as long as there is no funny business in them. They don't reject contracts when teams go over the cap do they? That's not their job to tell them hey we are rejecting the contract since you are over the cap. So stop using the league office approved it.

The contracts were fine, its the amount they spent that has got the other owners panties in a bunch. If all the teams spent 170-200 million, everyone would have tons of cap space right now, and FA would have been even more dull today. But only 4 teams did it, and 2 going overboard, which has now given them a competitive advantage, mo $$, mo problems.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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How did the Bears not get into huge trouble when they paid Peppers $34 million in 2010? Or the Texans with Schaub?
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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How did the Bears not get into huge trouble when they paid Peppers $34 million in 2010? Or the Texans with Schaub?
most teams went over the cap, but not like 50 million over.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:10 PM    (permalink
TheFinisher
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The Management Council Executive Committee is responsible for the decision to hand out these penalties. The chairman of that committee... the Giants John Mara.

Conflict of Interest much?
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:11 PM    (permalink
brat316
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The Management Council Executive Committee is responsible for the decision to hand out these penalties. The chairman of that committee... the Giants John Mara.

Conflict of Interest much?
haha, cause they are in the same division.

Well that can be said about almost anything. Like the when Polian was on the competition commette and Ty Law was harrasing Harrison.


See Goodell is not responsible for the punishment for once.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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most teams went over the cap, but not like 50 million over.
First it's a 'handshake agreement' that was broken, now you're arbitrarily deciding who broke the non-rule 'more'.
A rule is a rule, is it not?? There can't be a subjective interpretation to what degree an unwritten rule is violated.

EIther they're all guilty, or none of them are.
You can't make up the rules for an uncapped year TWO YEARS after the fact.

The Skins spent $36 mil on two contracts in 2010 over the cap. The Bears spent nearly that amount on ONE player.

No, this is going to court.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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The Management Council Executive Committee is responsible for the decision to hand out these penalties. The chairman of that committee... the Giants John Mara.

Conflict of Interest much?
Haha. The Mara's have never liked Jerry or Dan. They butted heads with John and his father over splitting the TV money equally, and this is really in a way just an extension of that. John Mara and his family will always make decisions and vote thinking of the league first and Jerry/Snyder don't. I'm really not surprised we are at the head of the group that was pushing for punishment.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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Mara is one of the most trustworthy men in the NFL and was one of the men soley responsible for ending the lockout so get out of here with that nonsense.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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No, this is going to court.
Perhaps only if you intend to take them there.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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LL ‏ @LL56_HTTR Close
@ZsSkins as far as I know skins are going forward as planned and will deal with the nfl.

Jsteelz ‏ @Jsteelzextreme Reply Retweet Favorite Open
@LL56_HTTR @ZsSkins Just got off phone, told the same. Said Skins are moving as planned, this is crazy !!
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