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Old 03-20-2012, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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I feel like this is a smoke screen but I wouldn't be too upset with it if it comes out to be true. We need a LT and a CB both badly. With the addition of Brandon Marshall in the division, and also Megatron, Hester, Jennings and Nelson, we will need all the help in our secondary. Also it's true how you don't need an elite LT to win. But they do help. I still say we go Kalil and then CB in the 2nd round. I think this is just spielman trying to see what people would want for the Third Pick.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
The Vikings are in dire straits in their secondary and may need three if not four new starters.
Is that more or less than the number of new starters they need on the offensive line?
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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I've been saying this for a while. The Vikings are in dire straits in their secondary and may need three if not four new starters. I still think there is a strong chance that Minnesota trades down, but if they stay at #3 Kalil is the favorite but Claiborne is very much in the conversation.
Especially when you are talking about a team that plays in the same division as the Packers and Lions. If you can't defend the pass, you have no chance in that division.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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I've been saying this for a while. The Vikings are in dire straits in their secondary and may need three if not four new starters. I still think there is a strong chance that Minnesota trades down, but if they stay at #3 Kalil is the favorite but Claiborne is very much in the conversation.
What do you see the Bucs doing if Claiborne and Richardson are off the board?
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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What do you see the Bucs doing if Claiborne and Richardson are off the board?
SHOPPING!

3 phone calls (Carolina, Buffalo & Arizona).
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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SHOPPING!

3 phone calls (Carolina, Buffalo & Arizona).
Yeah, if Kalil is on the board at 5 I imagine the Bucs will have an offer (or two, or three) to move down.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Killswitch is right...We've been pumping up the LT position for years without really thinking about it. At this point all of the OL positions are getting closer and closer in value, and probably has been as the decade moved along.

Claiborne might really end up being a smart pick...With all the Martin knocking maybe he's there in the 2nd...maybe they like Bobby Massie...maybe Mike Adams is there...they'd love Mike Adams over there...Kalil isn't the last decent tackle prospect in this draft.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Spielman is correct, you don't need a great LT if you have a great QB that has good pocket presence, makes quick decisions, and gets the ball out of his hands quickly. But if you have a young unproven & developing QB as the Vikings do, you damn well better have good LT play. Especially when one of the main concerns with your young QB has been durability. Considering that I just can't believe they will pass on Kalil. Although if they did I do think Claiborne would definatly be the pick as our secondary is as big of a need as the O-line.

Edit: This whole thing is a bit fishy as this is the 2nd time recently the Vikings have let the word slip out about like Claiborne over Kalil. Especially since this time Spielman went out of his way to call Bob Sansevere and let him know.

A link to the other article: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/s...l-at-no-3-slot

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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how many of those teams had shut down #1 CB? the Packers maybe? Saints had a few good ones, none as good as Claiborne. the logic cuts both ways. in some sense the only position that matters is QB.
Corey Webster, but I see your point
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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If the Vikes take Claiborne and the Browns take Richardson... What do the Bucs do?
Take Kirkpatrick without any hesitation.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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I'd give Kalil 99% chance of being the pick, one because of need and two, because I'd rate Kalil a much better prospect than Claiborne.
Next to the QB, the LT remains the #2 offensive priority on a football team.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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Especially when you are talking about a team that plays in the same division as the Packers and Lions. If you can't defend the pass, you have no chance in that division.
I think it would be more appropriate to say if you can't score you have no chance in that division because no one can stop them all game long. Except the Chiefs and themselves I guess.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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I feel like this is a smoke screen but I wouldn't be too upset with it if it comes out to be true. We need a LT and a CB both badly. With the addition of Brandon Marshall in the division, and also Megatron, Hester, Jennings and Nelson, we will need all the help in our secondary. Also it's true how you don't need an elite LT to win. But they do help. I still say we go Kalil and then CB in the 2nd round. I think this is just spielman trying to see what people would want for the Third Pick.
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Old 03-20-2012, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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If Speilman has an ounce of sense to him he is going to protect his investment (Ponder) just to save his own skin, and that means drafting Kalil. Ponder cant progress without time to throw and targets to throw to. Speilman will draft offense early and often. There is a better chance of finding talented CBs in round 2 then a good LT (even though I have Speilman and co going for a WR in round 2 unless a stud drops like a rock). There is much deeper talent in the draft at CB and WR. A good player will be there at #35.
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Old 03-20-2012, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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I can't see this happening, the Vikings will be able to get a very good CB in the 2nd(Gilmore, Robinson, Johnson) and adding a talent like Kalil to this team is exactly what they need. It's true that franchise QB's don't need a elite LT, but Ponder is far from elite. Kalil will greatly improve Ponder's chances in the NFL, and also help Adrian Peterson bounce back faster with better blocking. Claiborne to the Bucs is a lock IMO, can't see the Browns take another CB in the top 10 so if a team wants him they will have to trade up.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SterlingArcher View Post
If Speilman has an ounce of sense to him he is going to protect his investment (Ponder) just to save his own skin, and that means drafting Kalil.
The one thing that Ponder really struggled with in college that didn't really crop up last year (perhaps the only thing that fits this decription) was that Ponder was hurt a lot at Florida State.

Probably keeping that from being a problem in the pros is something that Spielman ought to be concerned with. That's not to say that Christian Ponder is especially fragile, but Ben Roethlisberger he ain't.
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Cleveland and Miami both have "elite" left tackles and both teams suck a**.

Take the best defensive player in the draft (Claiborne).
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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Cleveland and Miami both have "elite" left tackles and both teams suck a**.

Take the best defensive player in the draft (Claiborne).
That doesn't make sense, just because Jake Long and Joe Thomas have been on mediocre teams doesn't diminish the worth of an elite LT.
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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That doesn't make sense, just because Jake Long and Joe Thomas have been on mediocre teams doesn't diminish the worth of an elite LT.

A left tackle is only worth whatever the quarterback he's protecting is worth. A left tackle's value is only enhanced because of what his job function is... to protect the blindside of the quarterback.

The worth of a QB isn't dependent upon other positions.

An elite left tackle is completely worthless unless he's protecting an elite quarterback.

People say that the left tackle position is "#2" behind the QB position in terms of how it determines the quality of the football team. Problem is, they don't take into account the size of the gap between "#1" and "#2" on the priority list. It's the Grand Canyon between the two.

An elite left tackle without an elite quarterback is nothing but a coach killer. You don't have to invest that heavily to find a left tackle you can win with.

Quarterback is a different story.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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I'm almost certain that Spielman's comments are a complete smokescreen. I wouldn't be surprised if the Vikings go offense with their first two picks. With Chris Cook back on the team I can see them staying with Winfield, Cook and Asher Allen at CB for 2012. With the cover 2 scheme used by the Vikings I can't see them needing to draft someone like Claiborne anyway.

The biggest hole the Vikings needs to fill is LT. Drafting Kalil allows Johnson to move inside to guard to replace Hutchinson and then the Vikings line starts to take shape. With Herrera also gone I can see the Vikings using a 4th round pick to provide some depth.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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A left tackle is only worth whatever the quarterback he's protecting is worth. A left tackle's value is only enhanced because of what his job function is... to protect the blindside of the quarterback.

The worth of a QB isn't dependent upon other positions.

An elite left tackle is completely worthless unless he's protecting an elite quarterback.

People say that the left tackle position is "#2" behind the QB position in terms of how it determines the quality of the football team. Problem is, they don't take into account the size of the gap between "#1" and "#2" on the priority list. It's the Grand Canyon between the two.

An elite left tackle without an elite quarterback is nothing but a coach killer. You don't have to invest that heavily to find a left tackle you can win with.

Quarterback is a different story.
I agree with most of everything you have said here. It's all about the QB and that is the main reason why Jake Long/Joe Thomas's teams aren't very good. However because they weren't able to get a franchise QB doesn't have an impact on wether the Vikings should or shouldn't take Kalil.

I disagree that having a elite LT is worthless without a Elite QB. It's pretty much the opposite in my opinion. A elite LT is at his lowest value if you have a elite QB, they just don't need a great LT. However I think having an elite LT is at it's highest value when you are trying to develop a young unproven QB.

Rick Spielman thinks he has found his QB. He can't have bad play from the LT especially when your young QB has durability issues like Christian Ponder. They must protect him to give him the best chance to develop into a good QB. The best way to do this is to take the closest thing to a sure thing in Matt Kalil instead of gambling and trying to find a LT later.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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honestly, does it matter? they're in prime position to grab a premiere CB or LT, both of which are MASSIVE needs. they'll pick whoever they think is the better player.
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I really don't think the Vikings could go wrong with either Kalil or Claiborne. Personally, I'd opt for Kalil because great OT's are more difficult to find but either way they get a blue-chip player at a premium position. The only way the Vikes could screw things up is if they trade down because a second or third round pick isn't enough to give up a stud left tackle or cornerback.
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honestly, does it matter? they're in prime position to grab a premiere CB or LT, both of which are MASSIVE needs. they'll pick whoever they think is the better player.
I'd think so, IMO getting the LT postion solidified is more beneficial to the future of the franchise considering it will give Ponder the best chance to develop.
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I'd think so, IMO getting the LT postion solidified is more beneficial to the future of the franchise considering it will give Ponder the best chance to develop.
while I whole heartedly agree and would absolutely take kalil if I were the Vikes, if they truly feel that Claiborne is a shut down CB who can take away half the field (ala a revis type), then go for it. Again, I feel kalil is absolutely the right pick...but claiborne wouldn't be a bad one by any means
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