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Old 03-21-2012, 09:43 PM    (permalink
onejayhawk
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Cleveland will draft Weeden, unless someone trades with Cincinatti for #21.

J
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by twiz View Post
Personally, I don't get the hype. A&M was a talented team that flopped in large part to (albeit inexperienced) QB play, and I know his receivers weren't doing well. His mechanics need quite a bit of work. He broke his foot and it's affected him in his showcase games. It's shaky. ANd just from the eye test, I don't look at him as a leader.
No. Our defense was ******* atrocious. Atrocious. They couldn't stop a brick wall in the second half.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by onejayhawk View Post
Cleveland will draft Weeden, unless someone trades with Cincinatti for #21.

J
Again, where is this info coming from? Because I don't even understand it in speculation.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by steelersrock151 View Post
BPA, I guess. I picked him out of thin air, actually, mostly because I didn't want to pick Kendall Wright there. Maybe Stephen Hill at 22 would work better, then best O-Lineman at 37.
Hill would be AWESOME.

Personal opinion, of course.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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I dont see any measurement how Trent Richardson is a better draft prospect than Justin Blackmon.

Blackmon worked out better (and was healthier).

Blackmon plays a more valuable position (where free agents are getting crazy money).

RBs in the high first round often bust out (even the ones that don't, like Adrian Peterson, tear their knees up).

Why would Cleveland take TR at 4? They can get an RB anywhere.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:42 AM    (permalink
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If they weren't so high on Hardesty, I'd see them going Richardson.
But they need a #1 WR so Justin Blackmon will be the pick
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GoRavens View Post
If they weren't so high on Hardesty, I'd see them going Richardson.
But they need a #1 WR so Justin Blackmon will be the pick
RB is absolutely a need, however. If they don't try to get Bush in FA (I really wanted Green-Ellis or Tolbert... knew it wasn't going to happen but... hoped...), then a RB is getting drafted early. I'm not a big fan of Hardesty myself. I don't think he can be a feature back. Thus he needs a tandem, or replaced. More than likely there's going to be a tandem in place.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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It just makes a lot more sense to draft a WR early in round 1 and look for a RB in round 2. A far better RB can be found in round 2 than a WR. They could have their pick from among Wilson, Martin or Miller, one of them is likely still there at 37.
That should take Richardson out of the equation at #4 and maybe in the top 10, since a lot of teams will feel this way.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
I dont see any measurement how Trent Richardson is a better draft prospect than Justin Blackmon.

Blackmon worked out better (and was healthier).

Blackmon plays a more valuable position (where free agents are getting crazy money).

RBs in the high first round often bust out (even the ones that don't, like Adrian Peterson, tear their knees up).

Why would Cleveland take TR at 4? They can get an RB anywhere.
It's being thrown out there that Blackmon doesn't want to play in Cleveland, because "They suck"

I think it's looking more and more like we'll trade down outta 4, pick up an extra 2nd and target Richardson/Floyd with our 1st depending on how low we go. In the 2nd, I think we reach for a QB project, only because most QBs go before they should due to their potential value. Gut feeling, I say Osweiller is in play for us in day 2 of draft especially if we pick up an extra 2nd rounder.

If we move down outta 4 and lose out on Richardson and we grab Floyd, RB will be our target at 22. Rumblings outta Berea is Martin could be in play at 22.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
I dont see any measurement how Trent Richardson is a better draft prospect than Justin Blackmon.

Blackmon worked out better (and was healthier).

Blackmon plays a more valuable position (where free agents are getting crazy money).

RBs in the high first round often bust out (even the ones that don't, like Adrian Peterson, tear their knees up).

Why would Cleveland take TR at 4? They can get an RB anywhere.
WR's in the top 10 between 2000-2008

2007 :

Calvin Johnson
Ted Ginn

2005 :

Braylon Edwards
Troy Williamson
Mike Williams

2004 :

Larry Fitzgerald
Roy Williams
Reggie Williams

2003 :

Charles Rodgers
Andre Johnson

2001 :

David Terrell
Koren Robinson

2000 :

Peter Warrick
Plaxico Burress


RB's in the top 10 between 2000-2008

2008 :

Darren McFadden

2007 :

Adrian Peterson

2006 :

Reggie Bush

2005 :

Ronnie Brown
Cedric Benson
Cadillac Williams

2001 :

LaDainian Tomlinson

2000 :

Jamaal Lewis
Thomas Jones


Looking at the above, one could make the argument both ways for both Blackmon and Richardson. However one cannot say Blackmon worked out better because there is nothing to compare at this point, Richardson did not workout, well not yet anyway. He has a workout scheduled for the 27th of this month and the knee surgery he had was minor.

The likelihood when comparing the 2 prospects is that Richardson would likely have the greater impact on the Browns for the upcoming season. And the debate will continue to live on for the next few weeks as to who Cleveland should select out of these two, but if the Browns decide to go BPA on the board regardless of position and look to add simply the most talented football to the roster then Morris Claiborne is very much in the mix for the Brownies.

I think Richardson would be the guy I would choose if I were Cleveland but I see both sides of the argument.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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I guess my way of looking at it is that maybe it is time for the Browns to get on that two year plan. Screw picking a qb, trade downfor another 2nd or third, and use those picks to get BPA's across the board. Upgrade RB, receiver, O-Line, get another starting corner to go across from Hayden. Trading down from 4 will give them 7 picks in the first four rounds. Then next year sell the farm and get that #1 qb, with a stable of good athletes around him. They're not going to compete for the division this year anyway, might as well actually plan for the future now.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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I guess my way of looking at it is that maybe it is time for the Browns to get on that two year plan. Screw picking a qb, trade downfor another 2nd or third, and use those picks to get BPA's across the board. Upgrade RB, receiver, O-Line, get another starting corner to go across from Hayden. Trading down from 4 will give them 7 picks in the first four rounds. Then next year sell the farm and get that #1 qb, with a stable of good athletes around him. They're not going to compete for the division this year anyway, might as well actually plan for the future now.
I agree with this logic. If they keep their picks, I think they should go Richardson/Blackmon at 4 then focus on building a defense. Imo Cleveland's top priority should be build a tough, solid defense. It fits that town and organization and it is the easiest way to get good quickly. Drafting Tannehill at #4 would be very desperate and would set the organization back another 5 years. They have Haden, Jackson and Taylor already, keep adding pieces around them.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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Blackmon or Richardson.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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I'd take a long look at Kirk Cousins at #37. I see a lot of Hasselbeck in that guy. Cleveland should work him out, at least.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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I'd take a long look at Kirk Cousins at #37. I see a lot of Hasselbeck in that guy. Cleveland should work him out, at least.
He hides his talent well, because I can't see it.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:41 AM    (permalink
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Brian Hoyer is still available!
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:18 AM    (permalink
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Cleveland will draft Weeden, unless someone trades with Cincinatti for #21.

J
In the fifth round? Because surely they won't be stupid enough to take a 28 year old guy in the first. . .

edit: Well, it is Cleveland. Maybe I shouldn't assume that.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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I hope Weeden and Cousins make their way ahead of the Steelers at #24. That would be so awesome to have Tannehill, Weeden, and Cousins not a first round grade amongst them to go ahead of the Steelers leaving three more quality players for them to choose from. Maybe even Jonathan Martin, Luke Kuechly, or Donatari Poe. Ah, but it's a pipe dream. Someone will reach and JP Losman I mean Ryan Tannehill because of his athleticism but they'll be a bad team than can't let him sit for 2 or 3 seasons and learn and will need him to play right away so he will be a bust. And no one is sumb enough to draft a 28 year old QB in the first round. And Kirk Couisins had one miracle in beating Wisconsin this year I don't see him having another one and going in the first round.

I do know how much more you appreciate being a Packer, Steeler, Patriot, or Giants fan knowing you have an elite QB at the helm and don't have to reach or over pay for a potential QB. I hope all this QB craze is over with in three or four years when the Steelers might be in need of a future signal caller.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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Brian Hoyer is still available!
Pats resigned him for one year today. Clearly he was not a hot commodity this year.
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Old 03-24-2012, 05:15 AM    (permalink
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why dont the browns just draft blackmon at 4 and trade 22-37 to dallas for 14 and whatever and draft richardson? Then next year you could have Barkley/Jones/Wilson come to a up and coming offense! What are those odds?
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Old 03-24-2012, 05:29 AM    (permalink
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He hides his talent well, because I can't see it.
I see what you did there. You don't think he's a good football player. You and I disagree about the merits of drafting him. Good stuff.
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Old 03-24-2012, 06:06 AM    (permalink
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People need to really go back and look at Cousins at Michigan St.... definitely not a high round draft pick. Doesn't make difficult NFL type throws, and really struggles in key points in the game. He's not as good of a prospect as Ricky Stanzi was last year IMO.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:17 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
There were a # of teams in desperate need of a QB this off season and they all hoped to find at least some prospect for improvement at the position.

Denver -Peyton
Seattle - Flynn
Washington - RG111
Indy - Luck
Miami - Garrard

Then there is Cleveland who lost out at every turn and is stuck with a career backup in McCoy after Holmgren promised a new QB this season for the team.
What is going on in Cleveland??? Does this team have even a hint of a plan for its future. I just don't see it. Are they now forced to draft Tannehill at #4???

Tannehill at #4? No thanks. I don't care what the draft analysts on tv say, if the Browns draft Tannehill, Weeden, or any other QB before the 3rd round I'll be disappointed. In fact, even the 3rd round might be too high. Neither would be an immediate upgrade over McCoy.

I saved a few of the Browns games on dvr and finally watched a couple of them again this week. Happened to be the two games against the Steelers, and Colt actually played decent football. Played hurt after getting a concussion and his left hand banged up on the Harrison hit. Ended up throwing a couple of INT's after the hit, but the concussion affected his play.

Until the team can draft or sign a true franchise QB, Colt will be at bare minimum serviceable as a starter, if he wins the starting position. It is a little unfair to judge him too harshly when the O-line didn't pass block well, especially on the right side, WR's dropped way too many passes they should have caught, and Hillis being sick/injured most of the season. Not to mention the poor playcalling.

Bottomline is the jury is still out on McCoy at this point. But the team would have had to give up way too much to move up to #2 for RG3, and Matt Flynn may not have been much of an upgrade.

Seneca Wallace in my opinion needs to be shown the door. For some reason Holmgren thinks he's a great talent. All's I've seen is a lack of consistency with his accuracy, and a bad attitude. If Orlovsky is still available in FA I'd sign him to compete with Colt.

At #4 I'd like to see them draft Claiborne or Richardson. Good starting CB's are so hard to find, I'd go in that direction, although Richardson would be hard to pass up. Then at #22 and #37 I'd like to see WR and OL addressed. They need a RT and a better RG. It'll be interesting to see if Greco ends up filling one of those spots. Some believe, including myself, that he did not start a game last year because the Browns would have had to give up a draft pick. He did get some playing time and did fairly well.

Guess I'm one of the few that believe MH and TH know what they are doing, and have the team on the right track. The defense is a couple players away from being REALLY good, and it's because they used the draft to select Haden, Ward, Taylor and Sheard. Now if they take Claiborne at #4, all's they'll really have to worry about is OLB, and probably a better cover safety than Ward to use on obvious passing downs. Hagg is a player to keep an eye on to see if he develops into a starter. I believe he was a 7th rounder, and played decent at safety after others were injured. With more experience, who knows.

Because the offense scored so few points, people are up in arms because they think MH and TH have failed, when the truth is they need probably two more drafts to make the Browns a true contender. The Tony Rizzo (WKNR) types can't seem to wrap their few remaining brain cells around the fact it does take time to build a winning franchise. Let's not run Holmgren and Heckert out of town right in the middle of this rebuilding process. The Browns will get some help for the offense. Don't expect miracles in the 2012 season, but in 2013 they should be able to challenge for the division title at the very least.

Go Browns!
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:42 AM    (permalink
GaMeTiMe
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I think the fact that they tried so hard to bring back Hillis after all he went through last year speaks volumes about how they feel at RB. They can like Hardesty all they want, he's fragile and Richardson wouldn't take 100% of the carries anyway.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:42 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Ware Nightmare View Post
why dont the browns just draft blackmon at 4 and trade 22-37 to dallas for 14 and whatever and draft richardson? Then next year you could have Barkley/Jones/Wilson come to a up and coming offense! What are those odds?
Because there in no way of knowing if they can get Richardson at 14 until draft day and that is if he slides. Tampa Bay and St Louis seem the like the most likely to take him after pick 4 but one never knows if another team would take him as BPA or another surprise team trades up if he begins to slide.
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