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Old 04-05-2012, 10:44 AM    (permalink
Complex
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Originally Posted by Bulldogs View Post
Completely different circumstances. Being hit by a baseball doesn't cause serious issues for you later in life. A baseball won't tear your ACL.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:44 AM    (permalink
Bert Macklin
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Originally Posted by rockio42 View Post
A big hit doesn't mean you are trying to hurt the guy. It means you are squaring your shoulders, keeping your head up, and driving every pound of force you can through that person's body.
While trying to keep the player safe. Got it.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bert Macklin View Post
Lolwut?????????

You never played baseball.
Lulwut? I played for like ten years. Obviously nobody threw 100 MPH at my age, but I've been hit by an 80 MPH fastball before. It's really not that bad. And believe me when I say I'd rather have that happen then a guy try to take out my knee. I'll take a bruise over a bum knee.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:46 AM    (permalink
rockio42
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Originally Posted by Bert Macklin View Post
While trying to keep the player safe. Got it.
Not at all. But it comes down to intent. That's what Hugh Douglass was saying on ESPN...
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Because the other stuff, separate the lying, should be moot. You think a millionaire tried extra hard to hurt someone for 5k? That's like me trying extra hard at my job for 5 bucks. The only thing the saints did wrong were lying.
No, actually it's been proven that this went down. That players were offered cash reward for hits and injuries.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:49 AM    (permalink
Bert Macklin
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Originally Posted by Bulldogs View Post
Lulwut? I played for like ten years. Obviously nobody threw 100 MPH at my age, but I've been hit by an 80 MPH fastball before. It's really not that bad. And believe me when I say I'd rather have that happen then a guy try to take out my knee. I'll take a bruise over a bum knee.
Yeah totally impossible to get hit in your spine and totally **** you up or hit in the head and **** you up. Or hit in the knee and **** you up. And I played for 14 years bro I've seen it all.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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No, actually it's been proven that this went down. That players were offered cash reward for hits and injuries.
I haven't see video of this, besides Bert said that he doubts that players went out their way to injure someone for 5k.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:51 AM    (permalink
Bert Macklin
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
No, actually it's been proven that this went down. That players were offered cash reward for hits and injuries.
Do you really think after 23 pages I'm in here claiming that stuff didn't happen? Im saying even though they did it shouldn't matter because guys to out to hurt people for their base salary every year. 5 grand won't make them try harder. Keep up.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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Yeah totally impossible to get hit in your spine and totally **** you up or hit in the head and **** you up. Or hit in the knee and **** you up. And I played for 14 years bro I've seen it all.
To be fair it is pretty tough to be hit in the spine. That would be some hell of a curveball. And no I've never seen anyone seriously injured from a good beaming, but hell, you've got 4 more years experience so what do I know. I get you want to defend your team but I can't believe you don't see this as wrong. This isn't funding big hits, it's funding injuring other players. Huge difference.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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There are fairly obvious implicit incentives beyond the few thousand dollar payout.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bert Macklin View Post
So is it wrong when a baseball manager tells a pitcher to hit a batter should that be illegal? Suspendable?
"Wrong" is a moral issue, just as we've seen the backlash by media towards the NFL. But here's the big difference...

A baseball manager tells his pitcher "If you bean him in the head and he comes out of the game, I'll give you $5000 cash."

MLB interviews the manager and he proclaims "I've never said things like that."

The manager then is found to continue to tell his pitchers to bean guys for cash, and he has also told his utility infielder to take a late slide and take out the knees of the star shortstop. "If you do, you get cash money."
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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But I thought we tried to kill him and sell his kids to nazis?

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“I don’t recall anything in that game over the top or out of the ordinary,’’ Warner said.

Warner said he did have a sense that he might have been a target in some other games during his career, but said that game against the Saints wasn’t one of them.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/pos...me-not-unusual
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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There are fairly obvious implicit incentives beyond the few thousand dollar payout.
The most was 15 grand against none other that the future HOF Brad Johnson
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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But I thought we tried to kill him and sell his kids to nazis?



http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/pos...me-not-unusual
Listen to Williams' speech before the 49ers game. Watch the 1st quarter.

Just because the Saints didn't achieve what their coach asked, doesn't mean the coach didn't ask it.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Ridiculous Saints homerism up in this piece.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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What is a outside ACL?
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Ridiculous Saints homerism up in this piece.
I see one saints fan in here.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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I see one saints fan in here.
Right. And he's the one being a ridiculous homer.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:03 AM    (permalink
Bert Macklin
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To be fair it is pretty tough to be hit in the spine. That would be some hell of a curveball. And no I've never seen anyone seriously injured from a good beaming, but hell, you've got 4 more years experience so what do I know. I get you want to defend your team but I can't believe you don't see this as wrong. This isn't funding big hits, it's funding injuring other players. Huge difference.
To go off what Hugh Douglas said and this is what I 100% believe, the players went out there to make big hits, nothing illegal and the money had 0% to do with it. Im more pissed Payton or Loomis NEVER stopped it because Williams is a POS who should never coach again. But I don't think our guys ever once tried to ILLEGALLY injur a player.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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Right. And he's the one being a ridiculous homer.
Lol on the other hand it's people like you who treat this like terrorism. The coaches were wrong, not the players.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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But I don't think our guys ever once tried to ILLEGALLY injur a player.
That's the conjecture.

Taking a supplemental (non-contract) monetary reward for injuring a player IS illegal. So, if a player did that, then it was illegal.

I'm not here bashing players at this point. I'm strictly speaking of Gregg Williams. But if the players do the illegal act the coach asks them to do, then they should face the same blame.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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Lol on the other hand it's people like you who treat this like terrorism. The coaches were wrong, not the players.
Terrorism? No, but you're out of your mind if you don't think the players are wrong. That is the ridiculous homerism. I thought that was pretty clear.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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The monetary rewards are what sicken me about this story. When you attach additional money to actions/assignments it adds a variable of greed and selfishness. Players (and the general public alike) will go above and beyond their assignment and/or capailities to make sure they claim the reward.

Telling players to purposely injure their opponent with cheap shots is terrible in its own right. Adding a commission structure to what he told them to do is sick and twisted.

I'm all for violence and big hits within the construct of the rules, but telling them to focus solely on hurting the opponent to claim a prize is where it clearly crosses the line in my opinion.

If you have an opportunity to make a big hit within the flow of the game then by all means go for it, but in my eyes it is unacceptable to ask your players to seek out and pre-meditate injuring another player and collect on it.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
Terrorism? No, but you're out of your mind if you don't think the players are wrong. That is the ridiculous homerism. I thought that was pretty clear.
I don't think the players were wrong because I don't think 5k motivated a guy making 10 million dollars to hurt a player. Except Vilma because he supposedly offered up 10k for Favre.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:14 AM    (permalink
BeerBaron
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Originally Posted by Bert Macklin View Post
I don't think the players were wrong because I don't think 5k motivated a guy making 10 million dollars to hurt a player. Except Vilma because he supposedly offered up 10k for Favre.
Don't be surprised if you're without half your defense for a good portion of next year.

I have a feeling that since the NFL wanted the NFLPA's approval of the player suspensions before announcing them, they're planning to hit the players harder than most expect.
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