The Jack Lambert Appreciation Thread

[bigbluedefense]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CMNetYOTQrA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_La...an_football%29

Yes, Im bored, but Lambert deserves his own thread.

He's easily a top 2 MIKE in NFL history in my opinion. Its between him and Butkus. Most say Butkus, but Im not so sure. Part of me says Lambert was better, but its awfully close either way.

For the youngins, since we've been talking about the history of the game the past 2 days, I figured you would like to see one of the best defensive players in NFL history do what he does.

Let's marvel in his physical intensity.

[Vikes99ej]

Ray Nitscke

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Vikes99ej

Ray Nitscke

I love Ray too, but he wasn't better than Lambert or Butkus. Him, Nobis, and Huff are in the same tier.

[njx9]

i'm interested to see whether or not 51 disagrees with you (about butkus).

also, lambert had poor tackling technique. he rarely got low enough and appeared to be lucky that the running backs tended to be either smaller or less powerful than he was (yes, i'm being obnoxious and trying to incite an argument).

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by njx9

i'm interested to see whether or not 51 disagrees with you (about butkus).

also, lambert had poor tackling technique. he rarely got low enough and appeared to be lucky that the running backs tended to be either smaller or less powerful than he was (yes, i'm being obnoxious and trying to incite an argument).

Well, I think its very close. Its almost a tie in my eyes. If you put a gun to my head, I go with Butkus, but its very close in my eyes.

Yeah, while he was not technically sound (his foot patting wasn't a good thing either), he made up for it in intensity and power. He was also a better coverage LB than Butkus. He was probably the first MIKE to play 30 yards downfield too, revolutionizing the position. As with any smaller LB, he would be physically flawed against big runners, but he surprisingly did well against them. I can't really explain how, because physically his poor technique shouldve hindered him more, all I can say I guess is that he was one bad mofo.

[njx9]

absolutely. it is interesting to see the amount of force he generated from really awkward (as far as football goes) body positions.

i'd be interested in split screening a few of these guys (butkus, lambert, singletary [who i feel is half a step down, though i can't honestly say i've seen more than a handful of guys play from before 1980]) in similar situations.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by njx9

absolutely. it is interesting to see the amount of force he generated from really awkward (as far as football goes) body positions.

i'd be interested in split screening a few of these guys (butkus, lambert, singletary [who i feel is half a step down, though i can't honestly say i've seen more than a handful of guys play from before 1980]) in similar situations.

I just have old tapes of games my uncle has recorded since waaaay back. He's a junky, he even has some stuff on Huff. Id love to see someone on youtube put up something of that sort.

Before Google bought youtube, it was alot more friendly in terms of seeing NFL highlights etc. I saw so many nice clips on there thats removed now. Someone even had all of the 84 49ers playoff games (The 84 49ers have a historically very underrated defense).

You'll be surprised at how the game evolved in terms of Xs and Os. In some ways, its changed alot, and in some ways, its barely changed at all.

I'll cite this year's AFC championship game bw the Pats and Colts. My cousin is a diehard Colts fan, and he recorded the game on his new TV with DVDR or whatever. So, everytime I go to his house, he shows the game like he's still celebrating it like it just happened.

After watching the game a couple of times, I noticed that the scheme Bellichick used was reminding me of something. I was like "damn, Ive seen this before". By the way, I loved the scheme he was running, injuries just turned it to crap in the 2nd half. Anyway, being the mad scientist that I am, I went back and looked at some old tape in my Uncle's stash to try to see if I can match it up with anything prior.

The 1990 NFC Championship game (Giants) vs the 49ers. It was literally, the EXACT same scheme. He even called the same exact plays, based on the personnell that Indy came out with. It was identical. Literally identical. That was 17 years ago. Shows that maybe the game hasn't changed as much as we think it has.

I kind of sidetracked with that, but I just wanted to share that.

[DeathbyStat]

This man not only was a killer on the field he looked like he was a killer.....God bless jack lambert!

Just a few quotes from him and about him...interesting stuff.

http://www.mcmillenandwife.com/lambert_quotes.html

[BigDawg819]

He had the look of an old school hockey enforcer......

[njx9]

bbd: interesting for sure... and completely off topic ;)

regardless, i tend to think this is more or less the same across a large number of schemes, that the only differences are the the little nuances added to either compensate for greater athleticism or for specific player types that hadn't existed in the past (a julius peppers or reggie white, and going further back).

[bigbluedefense]

I just loved how he finished with power.

You always hear me say that. I believe tacklers, and running backs have to be able to "finish with power". At the point of attack, Lambert would just lunge all his power into his tackle, and finish it off. You could see him getting his power all the way from his feet, and using all his body momentum to thrust power into his tackles. He never got you with just his upper body, he always got those legs working into his tackles. I love that. I guess that could be the reason why he was able to tackle high and get away with it.

I could talk about linebackers all day. Being a Giants fan, I love me some linebacker.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by njx9

bbd: interesting for sure... and completely off topic ;)

regardless, i tend to think this is more or less the same across a large number of schemes, that the only differences are the the little nuances added to either compensate for greater athleticism or for specific player types that hadn't existed in the past (a julius peppers or reggie white, and going further back).

Yeah, I agree. Probably the slight changes we see is due to player personnell and including new nuances for freaks like the ones you mentioned.

Sometimes we (Im guilty of this myself many times) put too much emphasis on scheme and not enough on player execution.

[yourfavestoner]

There should just be a Steel Curtain appreciation thread. I love Lambert, and he's one of my favorite players of all time.

Think about this though: on that Steel Curtain defense, you have four players who are arguably top two of all time at their respective positions (Lambert, Ham, Greene, and Blount).

And as much as I like Lambert, I like Ham even more. The beard does me in every time. I love it. He looks like he should have been up in the mountains logging trees and drinking maple syrup straight from the bottle.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

There should just be a Steel Curtain appreciation thread. I love Lambert, and he's one of my favorite players of all time.

Think about this though: on that Steel Curtain defense, you have four players who are arguably top two of all time at their respective positions (Lambert, Ham, Greene, and Blount).

And as much as I like Lambert, I like Ham even more. The beard does me in every time. I love it. He looks like he should have been up in the mountains logging trees and drinking maple syrup straight from the bottle.

Ham is without question, the best 4-3 OLB to ever play the game I believe. He was amazing.

[yourfavestoner]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Ham is without question, the best 4-3 OLB to ever play the game I believe. He was amazing.

I completely agree. Yet, Ham always gets overshadowed, for various reasons. The guy was Derrick Brooks before Derrick Brooks even thought about being Derrick Brooks. He's probably the best coverage linebacker of all-time.

[portermvp84]

Damn he was a mean SOB back in the day.

[Ward]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Ham is without question, the best 4-3 OLB to ever play the game I believe. He was amazing.

Hollywood Henderson. :D

[bearsfan_51]

I have mixed feelings about a lot of the upper-tier linebackers. On the one hand, Butkus was basically a one man defense his whole career while Lambert had Green, Ham, etc.

On the other hand, Lambert won 4 Superbowls while Butkus never made the playoffs.

I also agree that Ham was much better than Lambert. Lambert to me is similar to Swann and Bradshaw (or Troy Aikman) in that he is overhyped due to being on high profile teams and being charismatic while guys like Ham or Mike Webster probably don't get the credit they deserve.

That being said, I don't think either is the best MLB of all time.

My vote goes to this guy:



He's Samurai Mike, he's stop 'em cold. Part of the defense, big and bold.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Ward

Hollywood Henderson. :D

In all honesty, he had the potential. But he threw it away.

Ya know, for the Cowboys being a storied franchise, theyre not particularly strong historically at the LB position. I found that a little odd. Especially with Landry as HC for so many years. He built his 4-3 flex around the linebacker position.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

I have mixed feelings about a lot of the upper-tier linebackers. On the one hand, Butkus was basically a one man defense his whole career while Lambert had Green, Ham, etc.

On the other hand, Lambert won 4 Superbowls while Butkus never made the playoffs.

I also agree that Ham was much better than Lambert. Lambert to me is similar to Swann and Bradshaw (or Troy Aikman) in that he is overhyped due to being on high profile teams and being charismatic.

That being said, I don't think either is the best MLB of all time.

My vote goes to this guy:



He's Samurai Mike, he's stop 'em cold. Part of the defense, big and bold.

This guy is my favorite MIKE, but I don't think he was the best ever. He's arguably the smartest ever, but I don't know if he's the best. Top 5 no doubt. Maybe top 3.

[bearsfan_51]

One important thing that Urlacher pointed out in a sit down interview with Butkus that a lot of people don't appreciate is that they can't tackle like that anymore. They would get arrested.

So while BBD likes to get his rocks off to flashy hits, and for someone that knows a lot about the linebacker position tends to simplify it a bit too much, it's changed too much to use highlights films to get your point across.

[bearsfan_51]

Another thing worth noting is that Butkus revolutionized the MLB position (with Bill George before him) because George Halas realized that you could adjust a scheme and get a huge guy (Butkus was bigger than some lineman of his era) that would just scare the piss out of everyone across from him.

You could take that to add to Butkus' legacy or take away from it based on your perspective.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

One important thing that Urlacher pointed out in a sit down interview with Butkus that a lot of people don't appreciate is that they can't tackle like that anymore. They would get arrested.

So while BBD likes to get his rocks off to flashy hits, and for someone that knows a lot about the linebacker position tends to simplify it a bit too much, it's changed too much to use highlights films to get your point across.

Why do you gotta spoil my fun all the time? lol.

Yes, I know. But what else can I show? Some of these guys have never even seen him at all.

And anyway, if I get too complex, people will just skip over my post and say to themselves "im not reading all of that". So sometimes I gotta cut back on what I want to say.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Another thing worth noting is that Butkus revolutionized the MLB position (with Bill George before him) because George Halas realized that you could adjust a scheme and get a huge guy (Butkus was bigger than some lineman of his era) that would just scare the piss out of everyone across from him.

You could take that to add to Butkus' legacy or take away from it based on your perspective.

Ive always felt that the MLB should be a suffocator. He's the guy who stops the run, and knocks guys out up the middle of the field. I don't think anyone did that better than Butkus. He's the prototype.

Of course the position has changed since then, and continues to change, but Im still a fan of the sledgehammer MIKEs. Let the OLBs cover, the MIKE is there to be a run thumper. Thats how I feel about the position.

Thats another reason why I like 3-4 ILBs so much. Theyre built like old school MIKEs. You don't see many sledgehammer types in the 4-3 anymore. Nowadays, 4-3 MIKEs are smaller and quicker.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

My vote goes to this guy:

why, in your opinion?