Weeden in 1st Round?

[njx9]

Originally Posted by King Carls 5 Year Plan

age does not make a QB NFL ready. EXPERIENCE DOES!!! the biggest hole in Weedens game is that, experience, not his age. the fact that he is trying learn at an older age makes his window of opportunity a lot smaller than most 21 years olds with 2 years college experience.

but like, if weeden can play till he's 74, he's probably a hall of famer!

[Rosebud]

[Sportsfan486]

Five Reasons drafting Weeden is a bad idea.

1. He's almost 29 years old.
2. He has far more wear on his arm than any other 29 year old QB.
3. He played in a spread with no huddles and a silent snap.
4. He likes to throw interceptions and make boneheaded plays.
5. He was already drafted in the 2nd round in a pro sport. And busted. Miserably. At a position where his job was to throw the ball.

[BaLLiN]

Originally Posted by Sportsfan486

Five Reasons drafting Weeden is a bad idea.

1. He's almost 29 years old.
2. He has far more wear on his arm than any other 29 year old QB.
3. He played in a spread with no huddles and a silent snap.
4. He likes to throw interceptions and make boneheaded plays.
5. He was already drafted in the 2nd round in a pro sport. And busted. Miserably. At a position where his job was to throw the ball.

this doesn't make any sense, yes he played baseball, but far more wear? idk about that. So because he couldn't throw a baseball, which is a different motion btw, he can't throw a football? Your other reasons are a lot more valid but I just don't see these

[njx9]

Originally Posted by BaLLiN

this doesn't make any sense, yes he played baseball, but far more wear? idk about that. So because he couldn't throw a baseball, which is a different motion btw, he can't throw a football? Your other reasons are a lot more valid but I just don't see these

are you serious? you don't think having a torn labrum and rotator cuff issues, along with all of the throws, constitutes more wear? let's just save some time: you're wrong.

[tjsunstein]

The fact that he's 28 with a failed 5 year baseball career suggests that his arm has more wear. But pitchers dont't throw countless amount of bullpen sessions, long throws, and things of the sort. All they do is pitch on gameday. What the **** kind of logic is it to suggest his arm doesnt't have more wear when he's 6 years older and a failed P prospect? Maybe if he didn't pitch and played a position then I could maybe see where you're coming from. But again, he is what he is at this point.

On top of that, he was injured.

Do not want.

[Asteinebach]

I don't know who's arguing for this guy in the 1st round, but you're on drugs. Limited upside is the key phrase. Every other top 10 QB in this class has comparable or better talent, and higher upside. Taking Weeden, for any reason, over Cousins or Osweiler, is going to get your GM fired.

[onejayhawk]

Originally Posted by njx9

are you serious? you don't think having a torn labrum and rotator cuff issues, along with all of the throws, constitutes more wear? let's just save some time: you're wrong.

The injury was in 2004. He has had time to recover. He has also had 2 years as a starting time QB since then. It bears watching, but not a red flag. Weeden has an easy throwing motion, with no apparent effort.

The most common criticism I see of Weeden is that he does not look good on tape. I have some difficulty understanding this, because watching him run their offense gave a sense of inevitability to he drives. Perhaps to much stop action is being used,so you lose the flow. For comparison, Baylor was not nearly as good grinding it out. RG III had a sense of impending exlosion, but sometimes it never went off. Weeden was much better at running the offense.

Try to tone down the rants. You are crossing the line into abuse. This is not personal.

j

[Rosebud]

Being able to grind it out against weak college defenses doesn't make you a promising pick. RGIII is first round prospect because he showed the ability to be make big plays, making the tough throws a QB needs to be a standout starter in the NFL. Weeden didn't. What Weeden showed was the potential to be a mediocre starter a la Cassel or Orton. If that's his upside and he's already 28 with a worn arm, why would you waste a premium pick on that when you can take a kid who has the tools to be a standout and isn't under the gun to make it happen quickly due to a likely 5 year prime.

[descendency]

RG3 became a first rounder when he killed Oklahoma. He won the game. That last drive was special.

Remember the name Bryon Coleman. He'll go before Weeden. Similar situation to when the Patriots drafted Kevin O'Connell.

[FUNBUNCHER]

I definitely take Weeden over Osweiler and Cousins, mainly Cousins, if I expect one of these guys to see the field as a starter in 2013-2014.

Osweiler is not a good QB. His pro potential is all about his physical tools, his game film is UDFA.

Cousins doesn't have Weeden's arm and shrank against elite competition. He looked like a HS QB against Alabama and literally struggled to take the snap and throw the football. Not a pressure/big game player.

Baseball pitchers throw the pill at approximately 85-95% max arm strength 120-150 times a game if they're a starter. QBs throw at max arm strength maybe 5-10 times a game and rarely throw the ball 40 times per start.

Weeden has no lingering affects from his rotator cuff injury and when's the last time an NFL QB threw his arm out??

Weeden IMO is a better prospect than Ponder, a better pure passer than Locker or Gabbert.

If you believe Weeden can start in two years, he's worth taking no later than the 3rd round.

Yes his age is a consideration, but he's almost 30, not 40. There are several examples of QBs playing their best football well into their 30s.

If Weeden can become a starter by age 30-31, there's a good possibility you get 5-7 years of playing time out of him.

Jeff Garcia didn't become a fulltime starter until he was 30. There are numerous examples like this.

It's not like whoever drafts Weeden is going to be in the hole $30+ mil guaranteed to sign him so it's not a financial issue.

If you think Weeden can play and help your team in the short term, after the 25th pick IMO his age shouldn't be a consideration.

[FUNBUNCHER]

BTW I don't have the stats but I was beaten in the head over the last three months that Weeden had the best red zone efficiency of any QB in the BCS.

Granted that RGIII and Baylor did most of their scoring outside the redzone, but in the NFL it's a valued skillset if you can finish drives from inside the 20.

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by descendency

Remember the name Bryon Coleman.

I'll forget the name Bryon Coleman. I'll remember the name B.J. Coleman ;P

[vidae]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

If Weeden can become a starter by age 30-31, there's a good possibility you get 5-7 years of playing time out of him.

Why? Why is there a good possibility? Because you say there is, or are there facts to back that up?

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Jeff Garcia didn't become a fulltime starter until he was 30. There are numerous examples like this.

Jeff Garcia also played in the CFL for five years and sat a year behind Steve Young. To say he didn't have much playing time until he was 30 is false.

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

It's not like whoever drafts Weeden is going to be in the hole $30+ mil guaranteed to sign him so it's not a financial issue.

You'll notice that no one has said a word about his contract yet because it doesn't matter. What matters is wasting a premium pick for someone that has medical red flags and wasn't all that good to begin with, on top of his age.

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

If you think Weeden can play and help your team in the short term, after the 25th pick IMO his age shouldn't be a consideration.

It should be a consideration, just like it is with every prospect. There is no reason to follow this logic for every other prospect but having one exempt from it "because you like him." And I guarantee you that teams don't agree with your "logic" there either.

[FUNBUNCHER]

How is drafting Weeden at the end of the first round or later suddenly giving up a premium pick in the salary cap era??

Nowadays draft picks are the opportunity cost spent in taking one player over another, there are really no financial considerations to consider for a player taken late in the first so there's no loss if Weeden is the guy you have the highest rated at that point.

That's why I mentioned his salary as a non-determining factor. No team's immediate future is going to be sunk because they drafted Weeden at the end of the first and he doesn't pan out.

Too much stock is being put on Weeden's age, that's all. It's not like his arm is going to fall off at 35.

If you think he can play and has upside, great. If you don't, fine. Other than potential years in the NFL, I don't see his age as a factor in Weeden's draft evaluation.

If Weeden is a starter by age 30, explain why it's unreasonable to assume if he performs well enough, that a team couldn't expect him to maintain his level of play for 5-7 years??? From a physical standpoint I don't see the automatic falloff at x-age for a QUARTERBACK.

The only legitimate arguments I've read against Weeden are from those who don't think he's that good anyway. In that case you spend a mid round pick on him and hope he develops and becomes a steal.

[scottyboy]

see but by the time he "develops" the dude's like 32. I don't care about "hits" and what not, your body wears down as you get older. It's as simple as that.

And a late 1st rounder isn't a premium pick in this era? Are you kidding me? Especially in this draft, which has a ton of talent in the top 50. It's not money, it's talent and getting someone who can help your franchise more and for longer.

the dude is 5 years older than a typical college senior. that's 5 years less of a guy you get. I'm really not sure how people are over-looking this so much.
and by people, it seems just funbuncher and onejayhawk

[njx9]

Originally Posted by onejayhawk

Try to tone down the rants. You are crossing the line into abuse. This is not personal.

yes, telling him he's wrong is 'abuse'. might be time to look into thicker skin or to stop taking criticism of weeden as a direct, personal attack.

[FUNBUNCHER]

I'm just trying to make a point about Weeden. He's not on my radar as a QB.

But as a SKins fan I do know if we drafted a prospect like Weeden and we got 5-7 solid years out of him, I'd be ecstatic.

[scottyboy]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I'm just trying to make a point about Weeden. He's not on my radar as a QB.

But as a SKins fan I do know if we drafted a prospect like Weeden and we got 5-7 solid years out of him, I'd be ecstatic.

well that's because you've had poop at QB for the past forever, so that's not saying too much now, is it? :D

but i have multiple sads that you guys are gonna have RG3. I love him

[descendency]

Originally Posted by phlysac

I'll forget the name Bryon Coleman. I'll remember the name B.J. Coleman ;P

I can't refer to a guy as "BJ". I'm sorry.

[Sportsfan486]

Originally Posted by BaLLiN

this doesn't make any sense, yes he played baseball, but far more wear? idk about that. So because he couldn't throw a baseball, which is a different motion btw, he can't throw a football? Your other reasons are a lot more valid but I just don't see these

For one thing, he was a fastball pitcher. Ever thrown one of those? It's a LOT more effort and unnatural then throwing a 60 yard pass. That's why pitchers often blow out their arms. It's physically more wearing to pitch a baseball than throw a football. A lot more wearing.

And he flamed out from injuries to his throwing arm. You think that doesn't affect his throwing of a football? I have an island up for sale.

[onejayhawk]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I'm just trying to make a point about Weeden. He's not on my radar as a QB.

But as a SKins fan I do know if we drafted a prospect like Weeden and we got 5-7 solid years out of him, I'd be ecstatic.

Consider that attitude in Cleveland, who owns the #22 pick.

Once you get back to #30, the risk is low enough teams like Philly and KC, plus Cleveland of course, will be willing to roll the dice.

Originally Posted by njx9

yes, telling him he's wrong is 'abuse'.

Exactly. I'm glad you understand.

J

[njx9]

Originally Posted by onejayhawk

Exactly. I'm glad you understand.

J

i'm not even sure if you're serious at this point. between this post and your choice to not address a single reply anyone else has made about weeden's weaknesses (beyond suggesting that a torn labrum and significant rotator cuff issues aren't relevant), it's become quite clear you have no interest in honest debate and would rather nitpick another posters words with things like the spam emoticon than actually make a remotely intellectually honest reply to anything anyone posts. it's almost impressive in a really, really sad way.

[Raiderz4Life]

Originally Posted by njx9

i'm not even sure if you're serious at this point. between this post and your choice to not address a single reply anyone else has made about weeden's weaknesses (beyond suggesting that a torn labrum and significant rotator cuff issues aren't relevant), it's become quite clear you have no interest in honest debate and would rather nitpick another posters words with things like the spam emoticon than actually make a remotely intellectually honest reply to anything anyone posts. it's almost impressive in a really, really sad way.

You're not getting it njx...baseball isn't football therefore his injury is irrelevant as he now gets a clean slate and injuries don't transfer over...like...duh!! He's 28 in human/baseball years but only 22 in football years.

[cmarq83]

I think as a rule saying somebody who is 28 shouldn't be a 1st round prospect is a stupid one. If your scouting department is convinced that a player is going to be an above average starter at the most valuable position in the sport, then you take him even if he's not going to be a 10 year player for your team. You can do a whole lot worse than 5 years of quality QB play with a first round pick. If you don't have a QB then you should be focused on getting one, and unless you have a top 10 pick it's extremely difficult to get one. Sometimes you need to settle for a guy who isn't going to be your 15 year franchise QB.

However, I personally think Weeden sucks, but that really doesn't have any relation to his age.