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Old 04-14-2012, 06:47 AM    (permalink
Abaddon
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Originally Posted by jojo View Post
Thank you, there millions of potheads, & > several hundred thousand marijuana addicts in this country (maybe in CA alone) who are several levels worse than mere potheads. I know whereof I speak on this.
No.

Again, read a book. Do just a wee little bit of research, rather than running off half cocked with your ignorance.
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:49 AM    (permalink
Abaddon
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Originally Posted by Chargerfn909 View Post
In JJ's case, i'd take that bet.


It's about character (or lack of), and he has given us all good reasons to think he is not responsible enough to handle a role in the NFL.
Weed leads to gunslinging.


Does your mom know she raised such a dumb kid? Holy crap.
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Vox Populi View Post
You can be addicted to something without it containing addictive substances in it... Its all those chemicals in roulette and poker that cause gambling addicts amirite?
You still haven't read a book.

Take a class. I did. They're available to anyone. Even you.
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:55 AM    (permalink
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All research to the contrary.
There is a substantial amount of research on addiction to marijuana/opiates.
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:57 AM    (permalink
Abaddon
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There is a substantial amount of research on addiction to marijuana/opiates.
The fact that you just typed "marijuana/opiates" with a straight face tells me all I need to know about you. Ignorance on an epic scale.

Are you even slightly aware that those are two entirely different things? Oh my dear god.
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:01 AM    (permalink
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The fact that you just typed "marijuana/opiates" with a straight face tells me all I need to know about you. Ignorance on an epic scale.

Are you even slightly aware that those are two entirely different things? Oh my dear god.
Anyone who has a fundamental understanding of how journals work can tell you that there are a tonne of studies on addiction and weed. The only ignorance in this thread is your dismissal of other peoples posts.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Holy lack of a sense of humor Batman!
My bad, for whatever reason, that looked like you were serious to me...
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Abaddon is right. You can't be addicted to weed. You can like smoking it, and everyone would if they did, but you can't get addicted to it. Gambling is different because it is a psychological addiction. They need the adrenaline rush and risk of putting their money on the line. It's also the way these people try to get out of debt, but obviously it barely ever works that way.

As for Jenkins, he obviously isn't addicted to weed. If he needed to smoke weed everyday, multiple times a day he wouldn't be able to function with everything else in life. He wouldn't be able to maintain his level of football play if he smoked that much.

This stuff really is getting overblown. I hope he becomes a pro-bowler somewhere.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Let's keep things in perspective, Jenkins isn't monkeying around with guns or assaulting people like Pacman Jones. The guy is careless when it comes to weed and sex. I'm not saying those issues should be ignored, but in the grand scheme of things there are a lot worse vices to have.

Jenkins isn't a bad kid, just immature and a bit irresponsible.
Perspective is great. Gotta be sure to keep things in perspective. You don't want to make this kid out to be Rae Carruth or anything. Maybe I'm to blame for bringing the conversation to that point. But you can't ignore the potential for worse scenario's when you start giving this kid 6-figure paychecks.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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This stuff really is getting overblown. I hope he becomes a pro-bowler somewhere.
Weed is as much a psychological addiction as about anything else. Especially if it's built into a daily routine. However, none of us know the situation well enough to say whether or not he's that regular with it. I'm not concerned about the weed. It's what happens when you give a guy who's clearly flawed from a character standpoint a bunch of money and minimal supervision. Remember, these guys are 21-23 years old, which is prime time for making serious life mistakes.

Clearly, Janoris Jenkins is one of the most polarizing figures in the NFL Draft this year. I'm not sure if that bodes well for him, or not. As it is such a hotly debated topic, there may be some NFL GM's that feel the same way you do. If so, I can imagine him being as high as a late 1st early 2nd. But I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the kid fall out of the second round, either.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CDCB14 View Post
Abaddon is right. You can't be addicted to weed. You can like smoking it, and everyone would if they did, but you can't get addicted to it. Gambling is different because it is a psychological addiction. They need the adrenaline rush and risk of putting their money on the line. It's also the way these people try to get out of debt, but obviously it barely ever works that way.

As for Jenkins, he obviously isn't addicted to weed. If he needed to smoke weed everyday, multiple times a day he wouldn't be able to function with everything else in life. He wouldn't be able to maintain his level of football play if he smoked that much.

This stuff really is getting overblown. I hope he becomes a pro-bowler somewhere.
It's naive and short-sighted to believe that one simply cannot develop a psychological dependency on the act of smoking marijuana.

Any type of "high", adrenaline, fear, narcotic, orgasmic, etc. can lead to dependency.

Just because something doesn't illicit direct , physical withdrawal doesn't negate the likelihood of it's mental and emotional impact on mimicing physical symptoms of withdrawal.

Pornography, food, sex, thrill-seeking, etc, are all similar in that they can cause an emotional dependence that, when removed can cause the brain to interpret the loss as physical "need."
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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A psychological dependency is a lot different than a physical addiction. Take alcohol withdrawal, for example. It's a socially accepted drug, and anybody who ever leaves their house (or at least reads the OT forums at this site) will know that a lot of us enjoy it. For addicts, however, the withdrawal symptoms can include seizures, tremors, brain damage, and (in rare cases) death. I don't think that anybody has ever died as result of withdrawal symptoms from gambling, pot, or sex.

We should really be distinguishing between "addiction" and "dependency" if we're going to have an intelligent conversation about these issues.

As for Jenkins, I think that this is where interviews become important -- not just with the player, but also with the people who know him. What type of person is he, really? None of us know, but you can bet that 20+ teams have talked to people who do have a pretty good idea.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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LoL this thread is funny. You can't be addicted to weed and it does not lead to gangbanging. If I remember right, Pacman had been charged with a felony or two when he entered the draft.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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If he fell to 45 I'd pray that Dallas takes him. Let him know that with the investment we will be keeping a "bodyguard/babysitter" with him and hopes he matures.

Way too talented to fall that far though. Smoking weed is a correctable character flaw. As long as Jenkins doesn't continue his baby-making to 'Cro levels he'll be just fine.
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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LoL this thread is funny. You can't be addicted to weed and it does not lead to gangbanging. If I remember right, Pacman had been charged with a felony or two when he entered the draft.
You can't be physically addicted to weed. You can be psychologically addicted to just about anything.

I think the guys point about gangbanging was the kid already has a rap sheet and a problem with pot. He has multiple baby mamas. He was so messed up he even got kicked out of UF It's not a huge leap for the dude to say that JJ does or could run with gangstas.
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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A psychological dependency is a lot different than a physical addiction. Take alcohol withdrawal, for example. It's a socially accepted drug, and anybody who ever leaves their house (or at least reads the OT forums at this site) will know that a lot of us enjoy it. For addicts, however, the withdrawal symptoms can include seizures, tremors, brain damage, and (in rare cases) death. I don't think that anybody has ever died as result of withdrawal symptoms from gambling, pot, or sex.

We should really be distinguishing between "addiction" and "dependency" if we're going to have an intelligent conversation about these issues.

As for Jenkins, I think that this is where interviews become important -- not just with the player, but also with the people who know him. What type of person is he, really? None of us know, but you can bet that 20+ teams have talked to people who do have a pretty good idea.
Accurate, but the distinction loses its importance if the idea is that "since it's only a dependency and not an addiction, the person can just quit, if they wanted to."

A dependency can be debilitating even if it isn't physically addictive.

An addiction can require intense medical treatment. A dependency can require intense psychological treatment. To infer that one is less significant than the other would be done with imprudence.
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Old 04-14-2012, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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Just posted by scouting report on Jenkins in case anyone is interested:


***

Janoris Jenkins, CB, North Alabama
http://www.draftcountdown.com/Scouti...is-Jenkins.php

***
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Old 04-14-2012, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Just posted by scouting report on Jenkins in case anyone is interested:


***

Janoris Jenkins, CB, North Alabama
http://www.draftcountdown.com/Scouti...is-Jenkins.php

***
Scott are you updating the rankings as you go, or waiting until right before the draft? Still see him as the #2 CB in the draft?
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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If he stays on the field, he's worth a top 15 pick. I'll take that chance. Scott noted him as boom or bust, but the only bust potential he has is the slim shot he's out of the league sooner than later via suspension. I think he's a boom pick with the potential of being a headache. Im not saying he wont be suspended for 4 games ever in his career but rather his play will outweigh the potential of suspension in the NFL. I believe he can be a starting corner for years to come and 4 games of let's say 5 seasons isn't all that much.

He told the truth in his interviews. Teams now know the extent they will have to go to prevent him from off the field issues. I liked the honestly in the interview. Early sign to me that hes ready to mature as a person. Then again, I wasnt there and didnt hear the tone in which he spoke.
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Scott are you updating the rankings as you go, or waiting until right before the draft? Still see him as the #2 CB in the draft?
I am waiting to the week prior to the draft, which I guess is coming up real soon!

Still undecided on what order to put Jenkins and Gilmore, but they will be #2 and #3.
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Good point. I'm not trying to hate on him, I just don't believe him to be a good enough talent to justify the potential off the field issues. And I personally take character concerns very, very seriously. I believe that the decisions you make off the field does say something about the decisions you make on the field. Corner is a very instinctive position, and nobody would deny he's got great instincts. But I think his poor decision making exposes his mental weakness.
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I am waiting to the week prior to the draft, which I guess is coming up real soon!

Still undecided on what order to put Jenkins and Gilmore, but they will be #2 and #3.
Interesting. So I presume you're putting Dre Kirkpatrick #4? Either that or maybe you're ranking him as a Safety prospect?
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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Interesting. So I presume you're putting Dre Kirkpatrick #4? Either that or maybe you're ranking him as a Safety prospect?
Kirkpatrick will indeed be #4.
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Accurate, but the distinction loses its importance if the idea is that "since it's only a dependency and not an addiction, the person can just quit, if they wanted to."

A dependency can be debilitating even if it isn't physically addictive.

An addiction can require intense medical treatment. A dependency can require intense psychological treatment. To infer that one is less significant than the other would be done with imprudence.
It's largely an academic distinction, but I figured it was worth noting when people drifted away from football and started talking about academic issues.

I'm not as bothered by Jenkins' problems as some people, but it's certainly something to take a close look at. People with twice his life experience still manage to screw up their lives over drugs and sex. Hell, Petrino just flushed his career and possibly his family life over sex.
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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No matter how much I want to give Janoris Jenkins the benefit of the doubt, I really think Scott hit the nail on the head when he wrote ”... which makes you wonder if he truly learned his lesson.” in his scouting report. Its great that JJ has been honest in interviews with teams*, but the main question still is if he going to put all this immature stuff behind him when he turns pro? When you look into his past its clear that he have had a bunch of moments, where he should have taken a long hard look on his life, and made some changes.

- Getting arrested multiple times while at Florida should have made him think twice about his lifestyle. Clearly it didnt.

-Getting kicked of the team at Florida could have been a wake up call. Apparently it wasn´t.

- While playing Division II football for North Alabama he must´ve been aware, that every single scout in the country would have him under the microscope. That didnt stop him from lighting up.

- And finally, while not in any way illegal, having 4 kids with 3 different really doesn´t help erase the perception of JJ being somewhat immature and irresponsible.

Long story short, I know it can be very hard to turn your life around and make changes for the better. However imo Jenkins have had so many second chances to clean up his act that Im starting to question, whether or not he has what it takes to stay on the straight and narrow once he turns pro.
More often than not these guys doesn´t clean up their act before its to late, and they are kicked out of the league for good.
One thing is certain, Goddell got this guy on watch already.

(* Apparently he hes been telling a different story before ”coming clean” at the Combine:
“I’m done with that,” Jenkins said when asked about his drug use. He and others around him say he has been clean ever since being kicked out of Florida in 2011 following the second drug arrest.” http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...draft_ 022612
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