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Old 02-10-2014, 11:25 PM    (permalink
Nastradamus
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Mack would definitely be a DE for us, though he might get some snaps at OLB here and there.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
Yah, Fauria is a nice specialized weapon, but him and Williams should be the 3rd and 4th TEs on this roster. Pettigrew and Amaro/Ebronwould be awesome.
If they resign Pettigrew, you can forget about drafting another TE in round 1, it is just not going to happen. If Pettigrew moves on then drafting another TE would be a priority.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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What do you guys think about trading down to pick up an extra second and doubling up on LB and WR? Kyle Van Noy -> Jordan Matthews -> Christian Jones -> Jared Abbrederis(3rd) in that order. If we're going to be doing some more 3-4 looks we would need more linebackers. Van Noy and Levy on the outside with Jones and Tulloch in the middle. Jones also has experience at DE for when we're in a 4-3 set. For the receivers Matthews is our #2 and Abbrederis replaces Burleson in the slot?
Sorry, but I have to disagree, Van Noy is not a 1st round talent, he's more of a late 2nd round type. Also, picking up a 2nd round pick is a lot harder than you make out. Who is a team going to trade up for at #10 that is worth a 2nd rounder, I just don't see any possibility of that happening, a 3rd rounder yes, but a 2nd rounder, just isn't going to happen. My choices in round 2 if we go WR, would be Beckham, Matthews, Cooks or Landry, in that order. IMO, there also will be decent CB's available when we use our 2nd round pick, possibly Roby, Verrett or Colvin.

In round 3, I'm praying Swanson of Arkansas is still available, IMO, he's a plug an play type and I just don't think you can put all your eggs in one basket and hope Raiola has one more good season in him.

In round 1, Lewan OT, Hageman DT, Mosley ILB, Clinton-Dix S, Lee WR and Pryor S will be the group we must choose from, so a WR, Safety or ILBer might just be our pick.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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http://**************.com/video/eric...vs-miami-2013/

Ebron really shines in this game, not only as a tremendously gifted receiver but as a capable blocker. He may not get comparisons to an offensive tackle like Pettigrew did coming out of Oklahoma State, but he shows to me a strong blockers mentality and has the physical makeup to do some damage.

EDIT:

I guess this site blocks "draft breakdown.com", which is really, really pathetic.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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I actually think this draft works out well for the Lions based on the needs they have. This is what my general strategy would be this year.

1st round - BPA. The reason I feel we can go BPA is that I don't expect that player to be at a position that's "off-limits" for us in the first round (QB,RB,DT,interior OL). Every other position is an option IMO and I just want to grab the guy that I feel has the highest chance of being an impact player. It's nice that we're in a position to take any "elite" prospect that falls to us (Matthews/Robinson, Mack/Barr, possibly Watkins).

2nd round - I feel like there is guaranteed to be a good value at WR and CB at this spot. Jordan Matthews is the guy that I would absolutely love to grab in this spot. I feel he's being overlooked because of some of the underclassmen but I have him as my #3 WR at this point. The guy played with an awful offense around him and accounted for 46% of his team's receptions, 50% of their receiving yards, and 47% of their TDs. Imagine what he could go with Calvin on the other side.

3rd or 4th round - I feel it's necessary for the Lions to find out who they believe is the top C prospect in this draft and target him in the mid rounds. As others have stated, we can't rely on Raiola forever and picking up a long term answer at the position in the middle rounds would be a huge get.

After that I think it's just about taking BPA. TE will be a necessity when we hopefully let Pettigrew go this offseason. Fauria showed a lot of promise and it'll be interesting to see if he can develop as a more all-around TE but even if he does we're still going to need to find a #2 guy. This draft is incredibly deep and I feel the best strategy is to just pick for value in the later rounds. It's pretty vague but at this point it's too early to mention specific players and I don't think it would be wise to try to target specific positions.
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
If they resign Pettigrew, you can forget about drafting another TE in round 1, it is just not going to happen. If Pettigrew moves on then drafting another TE would be a priority.
I completely disagree. Unless we sign Jimmy Graham, which obviously has 0% chance of happening, I think it will be a mistake to not get one of the top 2 TEs in this draft. THe NFL is about matchups and our offense other than Calvin does not create matchup problems. Calvin does and other than that, only Bush, but he makes so many mistakes that it negates much of it. Big, athletic, receiving TEs who can be split out are the best way to do this and they fit very well into the offense Lombardi will run.

I'd rather not re-sign Pettigrew, but I wouldn't hate it because he can stay in as a traditional TE(unlike Fauria and Williams, who are one dimensional) when Ebron/Amaro is split out wide or to the slot.

The other major thing we lack offensively, other than matchup problems, is a security blanket type for Stafford. We need some sort of TE or WR who can catch 80 balls over the middle at about a 70% clip and be one of our top options on 3rd downs.
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Sorry, but I have to disagree, Van Noy is not a 1st round talent, he's more of a late 2nd round type. Also, picking up a 2nd round pick is a lot harder than you make out. Who is a team going to trade up for at #10 that is worth a 2nd rounder, I just don't see any possibility of that happening, a 3rd rounder yes, but a 2nd rounder, just isn't going to happen. My choices in round 2 if we go WR, would be Beckham, Matthews, Cooks or Landry, in that order. IMO, there also will be decent CB's available when we use our 2nd round pick, possibly Roby, Verrett or Colvin.

In round 3, I'm praying Swanson of Arkansas is still available, IMO, he's a plug an play type and I just don't think you can put all your eggs in one basket and hope Raiola has one more good season in him.

In round 1, Lewan OT, Hageman DT, Mosley ILB, Clinton-Dix S, Lee WR and Pryor S will be the group we must choose from, so a WR, Safety or ILBer might just be our pick.
Drafting a plug and play C when we just signed our starting C in free agency makes no sense to me. A lot less than drafting a TE, who would actually start, when you had re-signed Pettigrew.

As for trade downs, I doubt it happens, but there are a lot of OT needy teams in 12-22 range that could really want someone like Lewan. The 3rd QB could even still be there depending on how things shake out. I'd send someone Sammy too if they wanted. SF or Cleveland come to mind.

as stated though, I wouldn't want to miss out on both TEs.


and a DT? Um, What? We have too many holes, both in terms of starters and depth. We can't afford to take the kind of luxury picks you are suggesting. We have 4 guys on our roster who are capable DT starters(its Jones' ideal position)
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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The Lions need OLBs pretty badly, but that's a very thin position in the draft this year (for 4-3 Ds). At least the top of the heap come from powerhouses Alabama (C.J. Mosley, Adrian Hubbard) and FSU (Telvin Smith).
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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I'm cool with our OLBs. I'm just hoping Whitehead can provide some pass rush and blitzing ability as a complement to Palmer. Levy is a stud and I think we should bring Mcintosh back.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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So, did I miss something about Khalil Mack? He is an SOLB instant starter over Ashlee Palmer. Upgrade beyond any other I can see in this draft unless we get Clowney, Watkins or Robinson. Soooooo, if they are gone in my mind we take a TE to replace Pettigrew or Mack to be a three down LB'er., or, we could grab HaHa Clinton Dix as a safety to replace Delmas.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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Jordan Matthews had a horrible senior bowl. He couldn't get off the line at all. If he couldn't do it there, what's he going to do in the pros? Looking at WR I would take Paul Richardson and Davante Adams over Jordan Matthews.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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First round) Watkins, Mack, Clowney, Robinson, Matthews, Clinton-Dix
Second round) Austin Sefarian Jenkins, Bradley Roby, EJ Gaines, Deon Buchanon
Third Round) Paul Richardson, Travis Austin, Westin Richburg
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:09 AM    (permalink
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I still have a hard time believing that we will address the trenches on either side of the ball in the first 2 rounds. Our holes right now are not on the lines. We have spent a lot building the trenches the past few years and we are now at a point where we have one of the best Dlines in the league and statistically one of the best Olines. We are in a position to return our entire starting oline over from last year, something I don't think we have been able to do for a very long time. The best part of that is that the Oline features 3 guys under the age of 26 and all of them are getting paid very little.

Why would we address this position again so early when we are lacking talent at WR, CB, LB or when we could really use a cheaper younger talent at safety?

I understand there is a good chance Lewan or Robinson may be BPA when our pick comes up, but the players that are at a position of need aren't that far behind and they make our team better right now and in the future. Unless we for some reason think that Waddle was a total fluke (all season) we should be focusing on allowing the guys to get better and build a chemistry that can allow them to continually be a top Oline for years to come (while also playing on very cheap rookie contracts).
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Lions just need players that make them better, now and in the future. Robinson could very well make Detroit better at left tackle over Reiff. And then Reiff could be an upgrade over Waddle. Plus you have more depth and maybe could slide Reiff to guard if we lose Sims next year.

The Lions have invested in CB. Slay and Bentley need time. If Slay takes a big jump in year 2 and 3, we'll be in much better shape than we think we are. Green and Greenwood to me have shown good things when asked to play. They are big corners who are developing too. Plus we gave Houston a decent contract. Houston was a number 1 CB in 2011/2012. 2013 he regressed (some injury, some just getting beat by Green and Gordon). Houston in 2011/2012 form and a developed Slay (big and fast CB) can be a very good combo IMO. Like with Sims, Houston may have to be a cap casualty in 2015, maybe not. But then we have a whole new draft. The Lions have invested money and two high picks in CB plus two later rounders who have good size and speed and a little experience now. IMO, I don't know if Gilbert or Dennard are better than Houston or a Slay in year 2 in 2014. Rookie CBs tend to struggle.

Safety with Delmas is up in the air. He probably will be cut for the cap room. Delmas hit the open market last year and ended up coming back to Detroit cheap. I could see this happening again. If not the money freed up from Delmas, you could either get Bethea or Chris Clemons among others or go Round 2 for a safety next to Quin.

WR 2 is a huge need. I'd prefer to take one at 10 because we truly need more than a number 2. But a WR may not be worthy of pick 10. We shall see with Evans and Lee and if Watkins falls. We need a number 2 who can be a number 1 if Calvin goes down. But there are other options for good numbers 2s in Round 2 and 3 too. We've invested a 3rd and two 2nds recently in this area too and gave Burleson money in 2010. Lions have invested in more than just Dline and Oline. Oline is probably the least they have invested in money and pick wise actually. Thank goodness for the Waddle find though replacing Gosder.

Lions have alot of options and have enough talent and free agent options (even cheap like Mathis back) to make due at one position of need.
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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Exactly. If the player we select is better than someone on the team even at OT, we take him. If we lose Pettigrew or Delmas we can reach for Clinton-Dix or Eric Ebron.. I'd rather take Watkins or Mack but Robinson, Ebron or Clinton-Dix...I'm good.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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Exactly. If the player we select is better than someone on the team even at OT, we take him. If we lose Pettigrew or Delmas we can reach for Clinton-Dix or Eric Ebron.. I'd rather take Watkins or Mack but Robinson, Ebron or Clinton-Dix...I'm good.
Agreed on all those players. Hell even a guy like the DT Nix from Notre Dame with a Fairley trade. That could make us better in the long term(cap room, having two DTs longer) and maybe short term if Nix is more consistent than Fairley (who is very good but just disappears at times). Plus you get another pick for Fairley. There are so many options and it's more than just the draft. The new coaches will have to develop these players and develop players on the roster too. The big ones are Slay and Bentley IMO and getting the most out of Houston again.

Lions could go WR/WR back to back too. If Mike Evans runs well and earns pick 10 and you go Brandin Cooks in Round 2. The long run that could be great for the Lions as if those two guys pan out with 4-5 years of cheap but very talented number 2 and 3WRs, the Lions offense should be great. Millen's WR 3 years in a row, didn't work because they were busts(bad players) not because he took the position so much. He also missed all his defensive picks too. Same with Mayhew, 2nd round WR back to back, the talent was there but Young went insane and Broyles is way too injury prone. So it didn't work out.

The Lions need as many hits of their 6 or 7 draft picks (maybe getting a comp pick). And they need to be smart in free agency getting good vets who produce at the right price.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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I think everybody is in agreement that the Lions are going to target a WR at some point, probably in the top 3 rounds. There are a ton of options and to me it's about finding the guy with the right skill set for us specifically.

To me Davante Adams has a very limited skill set. His route tree was basically limited to screens and go routes and to me his biggest asset is his ability to win jump balls in the endzone. We already have Calvin Johnson and Joseph Fauria as tall mismatches in the redzone so I feel his talent would be wasted here. I think he's a better fit for a team like the Rams who lack that big physical receiver in the redzone.

Guys like Paul Richardson and Brandin Cooks are better fits IMO as their lack of size is compensated on this team by guys like Calvin and Fauria. Their speed is intriguing as you can expect them to make big plays with all of the attention that Calvin gets. I could get behind targeting one of these guys in the 3rd if that was an option.

The guys who I feel are our best options though are Jarvis Landry, Odell Beckham, and Jordan Matthews. To me they're the most well rounded of the group and I feel they'll be huge assets on 3rd downs when teams look to keep the ball out of Calvin's hands. Jordan Matthews is the guy I like the most out of this group. He's not a great redzone threat, but again that's something we already have covered. He runs a varied route tree, understands how to get open, and can make tough catches. The concerns about his inability to beat the press are somewhat legitimate but to be honest most college receivers rarely see press coverage so it's not that surprising to see them struggle. IMO he has the size and work ethic to get better at it. It's also worth mentioning that the general consensus was that he had a very good Senior Bowl week and even the people I saw mentioning his struggles against the press said that he improved in that regard throughout the week.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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A question for anybody here: How do you think the Rams and Browns will handle the first round? Each of them have two Round 1 picks (barring trades later on).

Another question: Is Michael Sam this generation's Jackie Robinson?

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Old 02-12-2014, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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I still have a hard time believing that we will address the trenches on either side of the ball in the first 2 rounds. Our holes right now are not on the lines. We have spent a lot building the trenches the past few years and we are now at a point where we have one of the best Dlines in the league and statistically one of the best Olines. We are in a position to return our entire starting oline over from last year, something I don't think we have been able to do for a very long time. The best part of that is that the Oline features 3 guys under the age of 26 and all of them are getting paid very little.

Why would we address this position again so early when we are lacking talent at WR, CB, LB or when we could really use a cheaper younger talent at safety?

I understand there is a good chance Lewan or Robinson may be BPA when our pick comes up, but the players that are at a position of need aren't that far behind and they make our team better right now and in the future. Unless we for some reason think that Waddle was a total fluke (all season) we should be focusing on allowing the guys to get better and build a chemistry that can allow them to continually be a top Oline for years to come (while also playing on very cheap rookie contracts).
I think we have to address the OC position, Raiola at an age where his play could slip considerably this season and at his age, injuries have a way of raising its ugly head. Doesn't have to be a round 1/2 pick but by round 3, it needs to be done.

If I were drafting, I'd jump at a chance to draft Robinson or Lewan as I have a feeling that our OL isn't as good as we want to believe. However, I'm not against taking a WR, CB or S if they are ranked about where we pick. I am against taking a LB as they simply aren't that important in today's football unless they have Miller like talent and can rush the passer. I do agree that drafting a DLman would be ridiculous.
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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A question for anybody here: How do you think the Rams and Browns will handle the first round? Each of them have two Round 1 picks (barring trades later on).

Another question: Is Michael Sam this generation's Jackie Robinson?
Cleveland is simple, they will trade up for Manziel if Houston passes on him. I don't think they will pay 2 first rounders but they will give up the 4th and probably a 2nd and a 3rd and maybe a 2nd next year.

The Rams will draft a LT with the 4th pick and draft possibly a WR with their other 1st rounder although that isn't their only option.

As for Sam, He had already come out at Missouri, so how many times do you have to come out. I think he and his agent are looking for money from his move more than they are worried about his acceptance in the NFL or his draft status. It also opens up the possibility of suing the NFL if he doesn't like where he is drafted. Society has already moved into the acceptance mode for quite some time so it is hardly earth shattering to come out in this age.

Jackie Robinson came to the majors at a time when blacks were still being hung in the south for looking at a white woman and the Klu Klux clan was still popular, hardly a similar situation to a gay person today. 15-20 years ago the situation might have been similar but today it is hardly worth mentioning, IMO.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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Sam came out once and the news was about to become public,without him having control over it. That is well reported. He simply did it on his own terms before someone else did. I don't think its a publicity stunt at all, as nothing I've heard about this kid suggests he is such a person. He has said he has no interest in being an activist and just wants to play football.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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I think we have to address the OC position, Raiola at an age where his play could slip considerably this season and at his age, injuries have a way of raising its ugly head. Doesn't have to be a round 1/2 pick but by round 3, it needs to be done.

If I were drafting, I'd jump at a chance to draft Robinson or Lewan as I have a feeling that our OL isn't as good as we want to believe. However, I'm not against taking a WR, CB or S if they are ranked about where we pick. I am against taking a LB as they simply aren't that important in today's football unless they have Miller like talent and can rush the passer. I do agree that drafting a DLman would be ridiculous.
Didn't you list Hageman and Mosley as 1st round options? Did I misread your post?

Also can we please not discuss other teams' draft strategies, unless we're discussing how it will effect the Lion's draft, and please can we not discuss the Michael Sam situation in a thread about the Lion's draft strategy.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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[quote=fredder;3567141]Didn't you list Hageman and Mosley as 1st round options? Did I misread your post?

Yes, I mentioned that they are currently ranked in the #10 area so would be possible picks but Hageman has no chance of being drafted by Detroit and both Mack and Mosley could fall some because they are LBers, a position that has lost some value in the NFL where passing the ball has taken over. I'd prefer that Detroit stick to drafting a primary position player at #10 rather than a secondary position player which is why I would support an OLman(real value at #10), a CB, a WR or a Safety if Delmas is released.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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I disagree about your points on LBs. I think versatile 3 down LBs are very valuable in this league because they can play the pass just as well as the run and never leave the field. It allows you to keep 7 in the box and still effectively play the pass. It also allows you to disguise coverage and blitzes because the LB lined up on the line doesn't have to be blitzing, he can just as easily defend the TE or the RB.

A LB just won defensive MVP. He wasn't a guy who was just a rusher. He was a 3 down guy who could do everything.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:13 AM    (permalink
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I think we have to address the OC position, Raiola at an age where his play could slip considerably this season and at his age, injuries have a way of raising its ugly head. Doesn't have to be a round 1/2 pick but by round 3, it needs to be done.

If I were drafting, I'd jump at a chance to draft Robinson or Lewan as I have a feeling that our OL isn't as good as we want to believe. However, I'm not against taking a WR, CB or S if they are ranked about where we pick. I am against taking a LB as they simply aren't that important in today's football unless they have Miller like talent and can rush the passer. I do agree that drafting a DLman would be ridiculous.
I feel as if we said the very same thing about Raiola last year. I'm fine with taking an OC in this draft, but later than the 3rd where we can still be able to add a WR who can impact our offense this year, or a defensive guy who could easily start day 1. We don't need the best OC in the draft when we don't plan on him seeing the field. I think the goal needs to be finding 3 starters in rounds 1-3. I'd rather aim for a guy later on knowing that we have a year to develop him (unless injuries occur).

I'd probably say that Mayhew's biggest accomplishment he has had in the draft was last year when he managed to retool our Oline with late round picks (and UDFA). I don't see why we would jump so quickly to negate that accomplishment by taking an OT at #10.

I am not advocating that we make a terrible reach, I personally feel that the top 2 OTs will be off the board and while Lewan could be BPA, there will be other positions there that are worthy of #10. We obviously disagree on the value of LBs, but I still fully expect that when all is said and done a Safety, WR, TE (who is essentially a WR) will all be worthy of that high of a pick. Mayhew won't reach, he never has and I don't see that changing now, but I think a lot of things would have to go against us that would force us to go OT
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