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Old 02-23-2014, 10:41 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
I think its clear he won't be traded, but I really think you underestimate the value of a guy of his talents(and I'm not talking trade value). Sacks are overrated for Suh. I want him helping our DEs and LBs to make plays by flushing things outside , with the occasional sack sprinkled in. Not to mention he was by far the #1 reason we were a top 5 run D(with a record streak midseason).

The way teams are set up in the shotgun and pistol these days, they have no blindside and they have extra time to avoid pass rushing DEs. Teams are trying to get pressure up the middle via the blitz, pass rushing DTs or moving DEs to the interior on pass downs. I'll take quickly flushing Wilson/Kap out of the pocket all day over letting him sit back there 3 extra seconds and then rolling out on his own volition or running up the middle on you.

and ftr 3 tech in a cover 2 is basically what Suh has been. We haven't technically been a full on cover 2, but his role as DT has been the same as Warren Sapp in his heyday or Kevin Williams in Minnesota.

If Suh hit the market, he'd get a bare minimum of 12 million dollars per year. There is no need to estimate his value.
i do agree that Suh does indeed plays a 3 tech most of the time but I'd trade him straight up for one of the better DE's every day of the week.

The shotgun is only an advantage in bubble screens and slants, it doesn't give the QB any more time on deeper patterns and the QB still has a blind side. If anything, while there is definitely an advantage on shorter patterns, it is likely a liability on deeper throws because the DE can more easily slip to either side of the OT without getting much interference from the OG's.

Anyways, enough on Suh, he's here to stay for 2014 anyways.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:47 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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'm so glad to hear how strong this draft is, we all deserve a solid draft after putting up with another losing season. This draft might just be a huge reward for getting the 10th pick, it is the kind of draft where you can get 4 or 5 starters out of it and so, for this draft, I'd rather be drafting 10th than say around 25.

Mayhew, if you blow these picks I'll never forgive you, just get it right and we'll be set up for years. I haven't got a whole lot of time left, so please give me a good going away present.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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So to set all this up, we will have #10, 45, 78, our 4th, a compensatory 4th, a 6th and a seventh.
010) Taylor Lewan, Greg Robinson, Jake Matthews, Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans, Khalil Mack, jadeveon Clowney, Darqueze Dennard, Justin Gilbert and Eric Ebron. These are ten non-QB's. Knock three names off the list because QB's go there before we draft. The top pick will be a winner, no doubt.

045) Brandon Cooks is out, Odell Beckham probably ran himself out of our reach, Kelvin Benjamin probably gone but there is a stable of WR's to draw the pick from ( Davante Adams, Paul Richardson and talented players like safety Jimmy Ward, or DB's like Jason Verrett or Bradley Roby)

078) Again, CB, S, WR, OLB...somone whom we have identified filling in holes as we go.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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We need to upgrade some positions and fill some holes. Looking at our roster, I think we could use a CB, a safety, a TE, a #2 and a#3 WR and a LB. We also need a kicker and a backup QB. We could fill three of those holes in FA easily. I am going to throw out some possibilities.
Dennis Pitta, Jeremy Maclin and Shaun Hill
TJ Ward, Maclin and Hill
Those were examples, they reflect what I believe would be upgrades at safety or TE, a steady WR and a back-up QB. Nothing precludes the Lions from bringing back Delmas or Pettigrew or both.

You could throw Westburg, Martin or Travis Swanson as a replacement for Raiola
into your draft plans.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
'm so glad to hear how strong this draft is, we all deserve a solid draft after putting up with another losing season. This draft might just be a huge reward for getting the 10th pick, it is the kind of draft where you can get 4 or 5 starters out of it and so, for this draft, I'd rather be drafting 10th than say around 25.

Mayhew, if you blow these picks I'll never forgive you, just get it right and we'll be set up for years. I haven't got a whole lot of time left, so please give me a good going away present.
Yup, I echo these sentiments. This needs to be a 4 starter draft, plus a K.
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Old 02-24-2014, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Free agency we get one DB (Safety or CB) and one WR and a backup QB.

Two or three starter draft(depending on Pettigrew) (TE, WR and the other DB). And even at CB, I have faith in Houston getting back to 2011/2012 form and Slay/Bentley still developing. Long term, Dennard or Gilbert are great picks though and can unload Houstons contract in 2015 for cap room if needed. That depends on the rookie and Slay developing though.

And I'd rather have Chris Clemons or Antoine Bethea at safety than rely on a rookie safety 2nd or 3rd rounder.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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I agree, get a veteran S and a backup QB. I'm cool if we get a FA WR, but I'm cool if we don't as well. So long as we get 2 in the draft.

I wouldn't be surprised if we make a bit of a big splash for a S or DE. We are in pretty damn good cap shape now and can splurge a bit if we choose. Someone like Michael Johnson would really intrigue me.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Clemons is a free agent I'd really like to add.
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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The DB's looked good today. I really liked what I saw from McGill, Jason Verrett, Justin Gilbert and Calvin Pryor
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Old 02-25-2014, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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The DB's looked good today. I really liked what I saw from McGill, Jason Verrett, Justin Gilbert and Calvin Pryor
Nice group.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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I've seen enough. Justin Gilbert at 10 please.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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He has certainly put himself into play at #10. Drafting him and putting him with Slay gives us 2 young CBs with size and talent to be very very good in this league. But it will be interesting to see what Mayhew does because a CB is a gamble, and it's an investment which we will not see a return on for probably a year. Rookie CBs aren't good. It takes them time to adjust and develop and in no way does drafting Gilbert fix our secondary next year. You make the decision to draft him on the potential of having a lock down CB duo with 2 CBs who have the ability to man up any WR. But it's not a given and we still need to develop them. I'd like to think we have the right people in place to do that so I am very open to the idea.

But like IAC said above, we really do not want to miss in this draft. I'm in no way advocating that we play it super safe at #10, but if we are going to take Gilbert he better be doing his research. OK St. has produced some a lot of character concerns in years past and Gilbert's inconsistent play causes concern. His size and speed does not automatically make him a #1 CB.

I think Gilbert is certainly on our short list right now (of realistic options), but I certainly do not think this should just be a done deal.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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045) Brandon Cooks is out, Odell Beckham probably ran himself out of our reach, Kelvin Benjamin probably gone but there is a stable of WR's to draw the pick from ( Davante Adams, Paul Richardson and talented players like safety Jimmy Ward, or DB's like Jason Verrett or Bradley Roby)

078) Again, CB, S, WR, OLB...somone whom we have identified filling in holes as we go.
I still have a hard time believing that 6-7 WRs will be taken before 45. It could happen but I think the talent level at WR will push some people down.

That said, if we don't take WR at #10, I'd hoping for Beckham, Cooks, Benjamin, Mathews at #45. Probably in that order. (I think you are right that Beckham and Cooks may have solidified round 1 spots, I just hope someone slides).

Considering guys like Richardson, Moncreif, Adams, Robinson, Herron and Landry will also all be sitting around, I wouldn't be shocked if we took 2 WRs.

Right now my ideal mock would probably be: (based on assumption Watkins is gone)

1: Gilbert
2: Benjamin (Mathews if he is gone)
3: Herron
4: Best OC available (between Swanson, Richburg, and Martin) I'd think 1 of these guys will be sitting there.

If we can add a quality safety in FA, I would be thrilled with the offseason. I'd love to be able to add a big WR along with a speedster. Obviously, FA will still change our needs and narrow down our options in the draft but as of now this would certainly make me happy.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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Lots of figuring going on...
If I were drafting my big board would be:
Clowney
Watkins
Mack
Any one of Lewan, Robinson, Matthews
Barr
Gilbert
Dennard
Pryor

Just going best player
010) watkins or Mack
045) Cooks, Jimmy Ward, Bradley Roby
078) Paul Richardson, Travis Swanson, Keith McGill, Robert Herron
4 th) Westburgh or Martin
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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So much depends on FA, if Delmas is gone, a Safety has to be considered at #10 if no FA is signed. Gilbert if he passes the character tests would be really nice if we can replace Delmas some other way. Of course, we have to resign Pettigrew or Ebron will also be in the equation. Lewan and Barr would be pretty as well.

Assuming a Safety is found in FA and Pettigrew is resigned,

1) Gilbert CB
2) Cooks or Beckham or Matthews, I love me some Cooks.
3) Martin OC
4) another WR -It is definitely the year to get them..
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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My ideal draft at this point (assuming our 4th round comp):

1. Eric Ebron - TE
2. Donte Moncrief - WR
3. Jarvis Landry - WR
4. Jaylan Watkins - CB
4c. Pierre Desir - DB
6. Vinnie Sunseri - S
7. Corey Linsey - C
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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I have prototypical size/weight/speed and other measureables I use. Some players get eliminated. Some others make it despite those guidelines. I like tall players at many positions, smaller ones at other positions and bigger stronger players at others. OL 6'5" plus, QB 6'2" plus just for examples. I like size and speed in my WR's, big hands.
Sammy Watkins for example 6'+ , 4.41 speed, big hands, 2nd among WR...He ticks all the boxes.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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Khalil Mack, fast, agile, tough, elite pass rusher, 6'2" 258 lbs.

All the boxes.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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I'd say that Jordan Matthews checks all the boxes for you as well. 6'3 4.46 40 and the biggest hands of any of the WRs. The guy still doesn't get the credit he deserves. I'd be happy with Mack if he fell to us.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Matthews does fell like the perfect #2 WR to play alongside Calvin as a 2nd round pick. It looks like the lions are gonna have to try really hard to screw this up bc no matter what happens someone will be worth the pick and fit a need at #10
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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I view Jordan Matthews as this year's Brian Robiskie.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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I view Jordan Matthews as this year's Brian Robiskie.
Yeah, once you get past the fact that Matthews was over .1 seconds faster in the 40 and almost matched Robiskie's career numbers in his senior season despite playing with an awful QB and no other offensive weapons in the SEC, I can definitely understand the comparison.........
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:15 PM    (permalink
StorminNorman
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Originally Posted by fredder View Post
Yeah, once you get past the fact that Matthews was over .1 seconds faster in the 40 and almost matched Robiskie's career numbers in his senior season despite playing with an awful QB and no other offensive weapons in the SEC, I can definitely understand the comparison.........
They actually had identical 40 times (they both played slower than it too). They are almost identical sizes and other measurables.

I am not going to compare Matthews college career with Robiskie, but their games are similar. I love his work ethic (just like I loved Robiskes) I just don't view him as the sort of explosive weapon I think this offense needs.
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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I put him about halfway between Brian Hartline and Jordy Nelson. Robiskie is a poor comp
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:41 PM    (permalink
fredder
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Originally Posted by StorminNorman View Post
They actually had identical 40 times (they both played slower than it too). They are almost identical sizes and other measurables.

I am not going to compare Matthews college career with Robiskie, but their games are similar. I love his work ethic (just like I loved Robiskes) I just don't view him as the sort of explosive weapon I think this offense needs.
I can't find a consistent 40 time for Robiskie. The NFL .com combine results page says 4.59, but other sites have him at 4.46 and 4.49. Is it possible 4.46 was his unofficial time?

Either way I don't agree with the statement that Matthews doesn't play up to his 40 time. He wasn't asked to stretch the field often because he was the team's only reliable receiver and I honestly don't know that his QBs could throw it that far. I've seen him run away from defenders enough to believe his 4.46 was legit.
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