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Old 02-28-2014, 12:48 PM    (permalink
fredder
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Yes there is. We don't need a tackle at all right now.
Need is a strong word. If you're discussing prospects with similar grades then sure we should ignore the tackles. However, I'll take an elite LT prospect over a good CB/TE prospect. Reiff was fine for us at LT last season but nobody is going to confuse him for Joe Thomas. You can't just ignore value for the sake of need.

For the record, I'm not saying that we should necessarily take one of the tackles over Gilbert/Ebron. I'm just saying that at some point you have to take the better player regardless of need. Every team needs elite players. Would we ignore Clowney if he fell to us just because we already have 3 1st rounders on our O-line?
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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There's a difference. Our D-Line could always use someone that good that can rotate in, but O-Lineman don't rotate. I'd be okay with drafting a guard or center in round 3, but drafting an offensive lineman when we had a top ten line last year that was good in both facets is stupid.
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by detroit4life View Post
I absolutely think someone can fall. When you have 6 picks that are basically locked into the top 9 and Mack isn't one of them I think it's not realistic say there is zero chance.

I'd also say there's no reason to say there is zero chance Watkins isn't there either. There's too many things that can alter the draft significantly. Too many teams ahead of us need QBs and there are 3 OTs that are supposed to be better than the 3 OTs who went top 4 last year. There is a legitimate chance that the top 8 picks include 4 QBs, 3 OTs and a DE.

A good chance? ehh not really. but with the depth of this draft and the needs at the top of it, I do think someone will fall that we will not expect to be there. I just hope that person isn't an OT. Personally I think someone will reach for a QB (either Carr or Jimmy G) in the top 10.
I think if anybody falls, it will be one of the QB's similar to Big Ben's draft year when 3 QB's were projected to go 1, 2, 3 and Ben lasted till the 10th pick.
I think you are pushing it to suggest Carr will go in the top 10 but I'll know more after his Pro Day. Right now I'd say no way but that can change.

As for Mack, the last time I heard Mayock be this specific, it was about Earl Thomas and he was right on about him, so GM's will be looking seriously at Mack and besides that, I don't think the top 6 is locked in place, Mack could easily squeeze into that group.

The top 10 is loaded so in any scenario, we are going to get a real stud to play somewhere, I just hope we resign Pettigrew so we don't have to use the #10 pick to replace a starter we lose in FA and instead can use the pick to really significantly improve a position we are already weak at.
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
There's a difference. Our D-Line could always use someone that good that can rotate in, but O-Lineman don't rotate. I'd be okay with drafting a guard or center in round 3, but drafting an offensive lineman when we had a top ten line last year that was good in both facets is stupid.
Yeah, but was our OL really that good. Stafford had a miserable season and in the games I watched, he was pressured an awful lot for my liking even if it didn't equate to sacks, he threw a lot of interceptions.

IMO, our OL is being overrated and could use an improvement, but I don't think Mayhew will take an OT with the 10th pick. I think it will be an OC in round 3 who can also backup the OG's in case of injuries.
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Old 02-28-2014, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Yah, Stafford will always keep sacks low with his quick release, but that's not the same as us keeping his pocket clean.
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Nothing wrong with a redshirt. I know that seems crazy in the current NFL.

Also, I'm actually warming up to Mike Evans a ton. Kiper has him at #6 on his board now. I'm making peace with that selection.
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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Wasn't it Kiper who had Mike Williams rated #1, the year Millen drafted him. I'm just saying. And, if Mayock knows so much why isn't he a GM?
We could probably find thirty fans here who wanted to draft Greg Hardy instead Mayhew drafted Fairley who can't push himself away from the dinner table. That means thirty of us are better talent evaluators than Mayhew. Mack might be gone but LB'ers fall on draft day.. Drafting a LT for 12-15 years is also a no-brainer. He would be clearly better than either tackle.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Nothing wrong with a redshirt. I know that seems crazy in the current NFL.

Also, I'm actually warming up to Mike Evans a ton. Kiper has him at #6 on his board now. I'm making peace with that selection.
Kiper never puts out his true board out till just before the draft. He rotates everybody into his top 10 to keep his customers happy and involved. I would put zero points for Evans being in his top 6 at this stage.
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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I think Evans is moving into the 6-12 range for everyone after the combine. He is pretty widely loved in the scouting community it seems. He doesn't run a full route tree, but he has a lot of elite characteristics. He might never develop into a complete WR, but the man is a weapon and IMO relatively bust proof.
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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I'm afraid Minnesota is going to draft Mike Evans for Norv Turner.
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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It'd be somewhat reasonable, but Zimmer needs talent on that D and they have a decent amount invested in receiving options for a team with no QB.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, really hard to see who Minny will pick, this draft is so loaded, anything is possible.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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They could pretty much go any direction other than OT or RB and it wouldn't shock me. QB,WR,TE,DE,DT,LB and DB are all on the table.
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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The more I think about it, the more I really think we need to target a defensive tackle prospect. I wouldn't be surprised if Fairley blows it up in his contract year, but I'd worry about his work ethic after payday - we need to be ready to let him walk. It would be smart to grab a player like Dominuqe Easly or Caraun Reid in the third - maybe even fourth round and work him in with a rotation.
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Old 03-03-2014, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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I think a DT is a future need, I don't want us to spend a high pick on one this year however. I preference getting our future C and taking advantage of a rarely deep WR class this year.

DT can be filled easily short term IMO. Having Suh stapled in at 1 spot I am less concerned about having a future replacement to fairly this year. Between Jason Jones and Mosley I think we can survive a year.

Now if one falls and it's good value I would never be opposed since I so agree with you that we will need to bring in a starter at DT in the not so distant future.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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I can't hype myself up for Ebron... I'm trying but I just imagine the Stafford draft without Stafford. Some scouting reports mention him having occasional problems with drops. I just imagine more of the same if we took him. I'm seriously fine with Fauria and Pettigrew or Scheffler or really anybody... I'm pretty sure that we can find the equivalent. I'd rather take a linebacker than a tight end.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:07 AM    (permalink
detroit4life
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I think when we are talking about the draft we can start accounting for an additional 4th rounder. Projections are that we will receive a 4th rounder for the loss of Gosder.

Avril, Durant and Hill were canceled out by Quinn, Bush and Jason Jones.

Typically the projections are pretty accurate as people seem to have figured out the NFL model to determine these.

With a draft this deep, this is a nice addition for us, especially since we don't have a 5th rounder.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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An extra 4th rounder would be huge. I think it would take a lot of pressure off of our earlier picks as we could double up on a major need (WR, CB) our use it to address a lesser need that we might not have addressed at that point (C, TE). It's also a nice asset to have if we possibly want to move up a bit in the 2nd or 3rd to ensure we get a specific player. It would just be nice insurance for the scenario in which an elite player drops to us in round 1 as we could take them and still have the ability to draft for need later on.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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An extra 4th rounder would be huge. I think it would take a lot of pressure off of our earlier picks as we could double up on a major need (WR, CB) our use it to address a lesser need that we might not have addressed at that point (C, TE). It's also a nice asset to have if we possibly want to move up a bit in the 2nd or 3rd to ensure we get a specific player. It would just be nice insurance for the scenario in which an elite player drops to us in round 1 as we could take them and still have the ability to draft for need later on.
Yeah I certainly wouldn't mind us trying to move back into the 3rd for a OC or WR. I feel as if you are able to get 2nd round quality players in the middle of the 3rd in this draft and if we can walk away with 4 players from the top 80 of this draft I think we'd be walking away with an incredible haul.

My hope is to get a defensive player at #10 and then 2 WRs (of the top 12-13 WRs on the board) along with one of the top 3 OCs. In order to do that there may have to be a trade. Having that extra 4th makes it possible IMO.
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Old 03-04-2014, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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The more I think about it, the more I really think we need to target a defensive tackle prospect. I wouldn't be surprised if Fairley blows it up in his contract year, but I'd worry about his work ethic after payday - we need to be ready to let him walk. It would be smart to grab a player like Dominuqe Easly or Caraun Reid in the third - maybe even fourth round and work him in with a rotation.
I'd be ok with a project, with our 4th round comp pick or later. I'd ideally not take one higher though. I wouldn't be mad if the value was good, but we have enough current needs where we probably shouldn't target potential future needs ahead of them. Even if we lost Fairley this year, Suh,Mosley,Jones and a late round body would be fine.
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Old 03-04-2014, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I can't hype myself up for Ebron... I'm trying but I just imagine the Stafford draft without Stafford. Some scouting reports mention him having occasional problems with drops. I just imagine more of the same if we took him. I'm seriously fine with Fauria and Pettigrew or Scheffler or really anybody... I'm pretty sure that we can find the equivalent. I'd rather take a linebacker than a tight end.
I just hate being that terrible at any position. That's arguably the least talented TE group in the NFL.

Ebron's going to have a Jimmy Graham like impact in this league. Graham has his share of drops too, but I'm guessing you'd live with that. I feel like people don't understand how difficult a Calvin/Ebron combination would be to defend.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:06 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by detroit4life View Post
Yeah I certainly wouldn't mind us trying to move back into the 3rd for a OC or WR. I feel as if you are able to get 2nd round quality players in the middle of the 3rd in this draft and if we can walk away with 4 players from the top 80 of this draft I think we'd be walking away with an incredible haul.

My hope is to get a defensive player at #10 and then 2 WRs (of the top 12-13 WRs on the board) along with one of the top 3 OCs. In order to do that there may have to be a trade. Having that extra 4th makes it possible IMO.
Unfortunately, in a draft this good, picks become like gold and you'll have to way overpay to move up. Every team will know the value of their picks and they won't come cheap like in a bad draft year.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:10 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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I just hate being that terrible at any position. That's arguably the least talented TE group in the NFL.

Ebron's going to have a Jimmy Graham like impact in this league. Graham has his share of drops too, but I'm guessing you'd live with that. I feel like people don't understand how difficult a Calvin/Ebron combination would be to defend.
I think your exaggerating by quite a bit. Pettigrew when healthy, still puts up 50+ catches a year, I can find a dozen teams that would gladly take Pettigrew off our hands because they are weaker at TE.

Certainly Ebron has the potential to be a solid upgrade over Pettigrew, but we would potentially be giving up a possible All Pro CB, LB or Safety. I, personally, don't want to pay that price. Give Stafford a solid #2 WR with our second pick and Stafford will have plenty of options between Johnson, #2 pick, Pettigrew and Bush plus whoever we play in the slot. In reality, there are only so many passes to go around and if you give Stafford all these options, Johnson will see the ball a lot less and the defense will pay the piper.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:39 AM    (permalink
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Thought I'd post Danial Jeremiah's latest top 50.

http://www.nfl.com/draft365/rankings

Let's hope those QB's get pushed up or we might not be as lucky as we hope.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:16 AM    (permalink
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Unfortunately, in a draft this good, picks become like gold and you'll have to way overpay to move up. Every team will know the value of their picks and they won't come cheap like in a bad draft year.
This draft is good because of the depth in it, not necessarily the top end talent. If anything it should be easier to move up this year as teams will put a higher value on an extra 4th round pick, which could still yield a very solid prospect.
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