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Old 03-13-2014, 12:46 PM    (permalink
detroit4life
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I'd like to see Broyles make the team and I'd love to se ehim stay healthy because I loved what I saw form him 2 years ago, but I don't think we should have any reliance on him being a contributing factor to the offense whatsoever. I'd start him on the pup so he doesn't take up a roster spot and keep him around in case of injuries.
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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A scenario I can see with the Rams is taking Watkins at 2 and then trading up to 10 to jump Tennessee and NYG for Lewan giving up 13 and their 3rd round.
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:42 PM    (permalink
detroit4life
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There are a couple scenarios where I do see a trade down possible. St. Louis is the most realistic IMO, especially if they move down from 2 with say the Browns or raiders. They could still take Watkins, Mack, Clowney and then be interested in a move up with us for a OT.

I don't see many teams willing to sacrifice 2nd round picks, but given the amount of high picks St. Louis has had recently and if they added to that, they could easily be interested in adding 2 premium players. I do not think one of the 3 OTs will be sitting there at #13.
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Old 03-13-2014, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Matty B View Post
A scenario I can see with the Rams is taking Watkins at 2 and then trading up to 10 to jump Tennessee and NYG for Lewan giving up 13 and their 3rd round.
Would love that. HaHa,Ebron or Lee at 13 I'm thinking. Maybe Dennard or Barr. Having 2 thirds would be really nice to have in this draft too.

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Old 03-14-2014, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Would love that. HaHa,Ebron or Lee at 13 I'm thinking. Maybe Dennard or Barr. Having 2 thirds would be really nice to have in this draft too.
Personally, if the Rams take Watkins and then want to move up for Lewan, I'd be asking for a 2nd knowing how desperate they would be to get a LT.
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Personally, if the Rams take Watkins and then want to move up for Lewan, I'd be asking for a 2nd knowing how desperate they would be to get a LT.
I would love to squeeze someone like that. I'd take a 3rd in the end though if I had to.
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Old 03-14-2014, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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I would love to squeeze someone like that. I'd take a 3rd in the end though if I had to.
I would as well and obviously there are plenty of different ways the structure the deal to try and get a second. I'd give 10 and both 4th rounders for 13 and the 2nd or something like that.

Thing is, I'd expect gilbert to still be there at #13 since Tennesse shouldn't be in the market for a CB and while the Gmen could be, they have more pressing needs.
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:11 AM    (permalink
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I would as well and obviously there are plenty of different ways the structure the deal to try and get a second. I'd give 10 and both 4th rounders for 13 and the 2nd or something like that.

Thing is, I'd expect gilbert to still be there at #13 since Tennesse shouldn't be in the market for a CB and while the Gmen could be, they have more pressing needs.
I have to repeat, that this draft is exceptionally talented with 20 great prospects plus immense depth for 4 rounds. You need a scenario like the one we discussed above before anybody will pay a price in picks, to move up.
The Rams are the only team that I can see possibly willing to pay that price and that is only to guarantee they get one of the top 3 LT's, if they draft one with their early first rounder, I cannot see any way they trade up to #10 and give up picks unless one of the top 5 prospects like Watkins or Mack slips on draft day, because of a run on QB's and is available at #10. However, you are talking about giving the Rams a potential future HoFer in that scenario when that prospect would look awfully good in a Detroit uniform.
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Old 03-16-2014, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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I have to repeat, that this draft is exceptionally talented with 20 great prospects plus immense depth for 4 rounds. You need a scenario like the one we discussed above before anybody will pay a price in picks, to move up.
The Rams are the only team that I can see possibly willing to pay that price and that is only to guarantee they get one of the top 3 LT's, if they draft one with their early first rounder, I cannot see any way they trade up to #10 and give up picks unless one of the top 5 prospects like Watkins or Mack slips on draft day, because of a run on QB's and is available at #10. However, you are talking about giving the Rams a potential future HoFer in that scenario when that prospect would look awfully good in a Detroit uniform.
The top 12 are pretty separate from the next group though. There are a lot of OT needy teams below us too.
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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The top 12 are pretty separate from the next group though. There are a lot of OT needy teams below us too.
The OL is pretty deep in this draft and when a 2nd rounder equates to a 1st rounder in most drafts and a 3rd rounder equates to a second rounder in most drafts, teams will be holding on to those picks like they are gold. Teams will be saying, 'I'll wait till next year to find that guy', I'll take my chances this year to really build up my team at a # of positions, since I'm almost assured to get 3 or 4 starters out of this draft.

Then, there is the other problem, every team under the sun, will be looking to trade back, they would all love to pick up extra 2nds and 3rds in this super draft, so trading back will be exceptionally tough, not only finding a trading partner, but being the team that is in a position to deliver the goods. i.e. if Buffalo is willing to pass on Lewan, they for say want Evans, they might well be willing to trade back as well, or if teams decide Detroit won't take Lewan if he is available, then why not trade up with somebody past us. Face it, it is simply going to be a very tough year to pick up picks unless your willing to discount what your expectations are, for instance, instead of a 2nd or a 3rd, you are willing to accept a 4th in compensation when in most years you would likely get the 2nd or 3rd. For a 4th, you'd have to be awfully sure, you can still get the prospect you want at the position you want to take that trade offer. It's going to be a buyers market where the buyer sets the price.
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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Its definitely not a full round difference in value, but each round is deeper than normal, no doubt. No need to overstate it though.

Second, while OL is pretty deep, franchise LTs go at the top of the draft. Almost all of them. There are exceptions, but its not even close between that spot and the other OL positions. Also, the Giants and Rams are key teams that will want a LT, so getting in front of them will be key. Us or the Titans would be the main options. I think most of the top 10 teams want to stay put and grab an elite talent. We are in a bit of a different position IMO.

and lastly, I agree on getting less value to move down. I'd be ok if we got a 4th instead of a 3rd, as I am very excited by some of the players we could pick up in the mid to late first.
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Old 03-16-2014, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I think this class is definitely being overrated by some. I think it's mostly because of how bad last year's class was. I didn't mind when people were saying this is the deepest/best class in a while but now people are just going crazy. There are going to be trades and I don't think the cost will be as low as people are expecting. Like Nastradamus said, it's not a full round difference in terms of prospects.

I'd put my money on the 2011 draft being considered better when all is said and done. At the end of they day these are still prospects we're talking about.
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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[quote=fredder;3595353]Yeah, I think this class is definitely being overrated by some. I think it's mostly because of how bad last year's class was. I didn't mind when people were saying this is the deepest/best class in a while but now people are just going crazy. There are going to be trades and I don't think the cost will be as low as people are expecting. Like Nastradamus said, it's not a full round difference in terms of prospects.

I'd put my money on the 2011 draft being considered better when all is said and done. At the end of they day these are still prospects we're talking about.

I have to disagree, I have an awful lot of experience in rating drafts, since I've see them all since the very early 50's. This draft is exceptionable, maybe not the best ever but right there with the best of all time. Certainly in the same ballpark. I've looked over this draft very carefully and most of the second rounders would have replaced almost every prospect from last year's draft in round 1 not including the top 5 picks who all would have gone in the 10 to 15 range this year. The vast majority of second rounders this year IMO, would in about 75 % of all drafts have carried a round 1 grade. and since this draft is so very deep, it is almost a certainty that the 3rd round prospect would in a lot of cases, carry a second round grade in most drafts.
Just sit back and enjoy the riches and pray we draft accordingly.

Of course, they are just prospects, that is what every draft consists of, there are zero guarantees for future success especially if you don't draft well, it is just that these prospects carry a much higher overall grade than almost any draft before it. The great GM who are sensation prospect appraisers, are drooling at the prospect of competing against the weaker GM's in this draft, those teams know they can get anywhere from 1 to 4 or 5 starters from this draft, while the poor drafting teams pick up all the crap.

You do well in this draft and your team will be competitive for a decade, you do poorly and you'll be watching from the rear for years to come.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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I honestly think this draft is just being hyped up because of the storyline of the record number of underclassmen and it being viewed relative to last year's awful draft. I have no doubt that there are a larger than usual number of talented players this year but I disagree with people who seem positive that this draft is going to change the face of the NFL like you just eluded to. Do you really think that if Seattle or San Francisco have a bad draft they aren't going to be able to compete for years to come? I also don't think that doing well in this draft is going to make a team competitive for a decade. Chances are that most of the players they draft won't be on their team in a decade.

I don't remember the 2011 draft getting this crazy amount of hype and yet in just their sophomore seasons JJ Watt, Von Miller, Aldon Smith, and Richard Sherman were already the best players at their positions in the league. This past year Robert Quinn was the best 4-3 DE in the league as well. AJ Green and Julio Jones(when healthy) are two of the best WRs in the league. Cam Newton is emerging into a great QB and Tyron Smith is one of the best LTs in the league. The Indianapolis Colts had an awful draft that year and yet they're a team on the rise now because they found a franchise QB the next year. So who's to say that a team can't bomb this draft and then draft Jameis Winston/Marcus Mariota next year and turn it around immediately?

I don't necessarily disagree with the basis of your points but you're using a ton of hyperbole to try to make this draft seem more important than it is. All of your points can be applied to every draft. Having good drafts will always make your team better and having bad drafts will always make it worse but no single draft is going to prevent a team from competing for years.

It just seems like the idea of how talented this draft is keeps getting more and more exaggerated as we go along and right now it's bordering on a ridiculous level. I have an extremely difficult time believing it'll live up to the hype it's currently getting.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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This team is definitely a very good draft. The number of underclassmen is a factor in that like it or not. I don't agree that all the 2nd rounders would have been first rounders, but there are definitely more players with 1st round grades, with 2nd round grades etc. There are also more players with a consensus elite rating. Its highly probably that no player from last year's top 10 goes top 10 this year and 2 would be the absolute max.

I'd say the draft is about 5-8 players per round deeper than average. That's pretty good when you throw in how good the top 10-12 are.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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Bridgewater did not do us any favors today at his pro day. He may not be a lock for the top 8 and that would be a terrible movement for us.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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I never said that this wasn't a very good draft. I've acknowledged that and have said that I have no problem with people saying it's possibly the most talented draft in a long time. I'm just saying that I think people making claims like there's a full round difference in value from a normal year, or that teams who don't draft well won't be competitive for years to come are crazy. There's just a lot of hyperbole getting thrown around and I don't think it's going to be able to level of hype that some people are giving it.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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I never said that this wasn't a very good draft. I've acknowledged that and have said that I have no problem with people saying it's possibly the most talented draft in a long time. I'm just saying that I think people making claims like there's a full round difference in value from a normal year, or that teams who don't draft well won't be competitive for years to come are crazy. There's just a lot of hyperbole getting thrown around and I don't think it's going to be able to level of hype that some people are giving it.
I'm not a person who is likely to jump on a hype waggon, I have people I trust on NFL.com and NFL Network like Mayock, Charley Casserley and Davis. They are all saying the top 20 picks in this year's draft would have seriously competed for the top 5 picks in last year's draft and that this draft year is one of the best they have ever seen going back at least a decade in both quality and in its depth.

I'm of the opinion that they aren't exaggerating, that this draft is exceptionable. However, they are talking about prospects being exceptional, there is a huge difference between being a prospect and what you accomplish at the next level, there is never a guarantee that all these prospects will ever attain their ceilings, only time will tell on that.

After hearing all this news, I went over my notes from last year and compared it to the talent this year and I'm convinced they are right on the mark. When I look at the talent available in round 2 and round 3, I see a superb draft, a really unbelievable one throughout 4 rounds You can believe it or not, but I've been following the draft since the early 50's and I cannot remember a draft with this much potential talent. Question it if you want, but I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the experience, because you never know when another superb draft will come along. I've seen plenty of lemons along the way and after a while, you can spot the good ones from the rotten ones quite easily. Experience is a great teacher.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Bridgewater did not do us any favors today at his pro day. He may not be a lock for the top 8 and that would be a terrible movement for us.
Yeah, every QB who goes top 9 is a definite plus for us.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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I think Bridgewater will be fine and still go top 5. He's in the middle of messing with his mechanics and he didnt' wear the glove he usually wears.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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If you were following the draft in the early fifties, you would have had to be ten in 1953 at the least, making you at least 71 years old. I started in the sixties and have been following recruiting in college just as long. There is no doubt about the quality and depth of the talent in this draft.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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If you were following the draft in the early fifties, you would have had to be ten in 1953 at the least, making you at least 71 years old. I started in the sixties and have been following recruiting in college just as long. There is no doubt about the quality and depth of the talent in this draft.
I'll be 71 in July. The draft first caught my interest when I learned that the LA Rams were the first team to actually send out scouts to watch players, before that teams simply drafted from the All American teams and All Conference teams, flops were so common, it was ridiculous. I think the Rams got something like 9 starters the first year they started scouting and a # of super stars, quite a few from smaller schools, after that every NFL saw the light and hired scouts. I was so fascinated by the story, I started reading my Street and Smith magazine and tried to predict the draft. I spent hours on it even as a little kid.

My parents divorced when I was 9 and I turned to sports to survive the ordeal, especially as I didn't know another kid from a broken home, it was unusual back then. I lived with my dad and football was a huge part of my existence.

Later, when I was 17, I started my own sports news service just so I could get stats on the NBA, which were unavailable in Canada in those days. I originally wrote the NBA and asked them for their stats, they sent me their weekly release which gave me everything I could ever hope for. I wrote them back and asked if I could receive it every week and they wrote me back that it was reserved for newsmen and editors. So I went to city hall and registered my company. I then rented a post office box and proceeded to have my own stationary printed. I then wrote back to the NBA on my stationary, and said I was an Editor and I got their weekly stats from then on.

I had all this stationary and a post office box, so I decided to write to every pro sport and every college in America to see what they would send me and I was soon receiving hundreds of mail every day including every colleges football yearbook. Then I brought a few friends into the business and I decided to put out my own All American team, if you look in the Michigan St. football yearbook, you'll still see an All American I named sometime in the 60's, I found they really liked to advertise their All Americans and it still says beside so and so's name All American, AP, plus a list of other news services and finally, my news service. Not only did they like my All American teams, they had all the local papers publish those facts in big headlines, no doubt, a recruiting tool. It was kind of neat.

Being in Canada in the 60's meant few professional or college sports had any idea of what was going on in Canada and it wasn't long before I started getting invites to all sorts of sporting events, I'll leave it up to your imagination, to wonder what I got to go to and it wasn't long before we were selling our interviews to the local radio stations and TV stations. I've interviewed player like O.J. Simpson and Joe Namath. Man, I could tell you stories, you'd be hard put to believe. I gave it all up to my friends, the whole thing, once I graduated from University, my job kept me so busy, I didn't have the time any longer to give to that business, but it was fun while it lasted.

It would be much harder today to do it, Canada has professional sport teams, so we are no longer in the wilderness like we were in the very early 60's. I should write a book on my adventures but at my age, I just don't have the energy.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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I did most of my early stuff through Street and Smith. I've done radio and internet things but stopped short of full fledged media blitz. The draft was even just the first round was published and you had to wait until the team released the picks to the media. Then, I would pull out the old Street and Smith's so I could know as much as possible about the picks. I worked some sports information scoring games and doing stats so you can imagine I like the metrics. I also got recruited and had scholarship offers. Although, I do not have any regrets because college was great, i really wish I had played on the schloarships i was offered rather than going to my dream school. It just seems like I passed on too much.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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By the way, i have had a great time traveling through the Canadian Shield area and the Great Lakes. Moose, mountains, bear, etc. and I spent a lot of time watching the cbc network to get the Curling and NHL hockey during the original eight years. Hockey night in Canada and the like.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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