E3 2012 - Page 6

fenikz · 06-05-2012, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulldogs

Care to make an argument? They copied them to further cater to the "casual" crowd but somehow I don't see either of them falling out of business without doing that. Kinect really isn't even that much like the Wii either, I'll give you that the Playstation Move is essentially the same thing.

Well the fact that Sony is bankrupt and xbox divison of M$ is hemorrhaging millions is a good start

nrk · 06-05-2012, 05:26 PM

Yes, one quick statement at the end of my post, which has little to do with the main point, is what I'm basing my argument off of. lulz

If you think the Wii U graphics aren't better than the Wii's, I don't know what to tell you. Once we get the final specs (more detail about GPU and CPU), we will be able to see if they are more powerful than the 360/PS3. Conference demos aren't final. Graphics improve when developers get used to the system (obv. if you ever played a console at the beginning and mid/end of a lifecycle.) or when the product is a final version.

Of course the Wii U is going to get games from 360/ps3. They will be the first next gen console released. Developers are going to be working on the Wii U while they work on PS3 and 360. As for games that have already been released, it's another platform for game sales. Is Nintendo forcing Bioware and these other companies to rerelease their games on the Wii U? Nope. It's their choice. If you really think that they only have older games that have been released already, well that's your choice for not doing any research. I honestly don't care about multiplats for the Wii U, I'll get them for my PC if possible. All I really care about are Nintendo's first party games, which haven't had too many announcements.

Lol, serious gamer who cares about graphics on consoles. Okie dokie. If you want to be a graphics *****, play PC. Otherwise it's just silly.

Graphics having nothing to do with a generation of consoles, FACT. Even if your ignorance disagrees.

Jvig43 · 06-05-2012, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz

Well the fact that Sony is bankrupt and xbox divison of M$ is hemorrhaging millions is a good start

What does that have to do with taking ideas from Nintendo?

fenikz · 06-05-2012, 05:31 PM

it's how they are trying to stay in business, obviously being 4 years behind on everything is killing them

Jvig43 · 06-05-2012, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nrk

Yes, one quick statement at the end of my post, which has little to do with the main point, is what I'm basing my argument off of. lulz

If you think the Wii U graphics aren't better than the Wii's, I don't know what to tell you. Once we get the final specs (more detail about GPU and CPU), we will be able to see if they are more powerful than the 360/PS3. Conference demos aren't final. Graphics improve when developers get used to the system (obv. if you ever played a console at the beginning and mid/end of a lifecycle.) or when the product is a final version.

Of course the Wii U is going to get current gen games. They will be the first released. Developers are going to be working on the Wii U while they work on PS3 and 360. As for games that have already been released, it's another platform for game sales. Is Nintendo forcing Bioware and these other companies to rerelease their games on the Wii U? Nope. It's their choice. If you really think that they only have older games that have been released already, well that's your choice for not doing any research. I honestly don't care about multiplats for the Wii U, I'll get them for my PC if possible. All I really care about are Nintendo's first party games, which haven't had too many announcements.

Lol, serious gamer who cares about graphics on consoles. Okie dokie. If you want to be a graphics *****, play PC. Otherwise it's just silly.

Graphics having nothing to do with a generation of consoles, FACT. Even if your ignorance disagrees.

Ok so where is your argument then, that games for the WiiU constitute it being next gen? ZombiU with its one video, Mario Wii just brought over to the Wii U, and a ton of previous gen games remade to fit it in the new controller? I have always maintained games are the most important thing, and theres another department Nintendo has failed in with the release of this thing. And they havent had too many announcements with 1st party games because they dont exist in any form to show us as of right now. This system is going to be competing with the 360/Ps3, thats this gens systems not next gens.

descendency · 06-05-2012, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Tell me which one of these is for the Wii and Wii U?

The top one is Wii U. The textures are a lot more detailed. I get the point, but it's painfully obvious.

Jvig43 · 06-05-2012, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz

it's how they are trying to stay in business, obviously being 4 years behind on everything is killing them

Again behind on what exactly, youre doing a very poor job of defending this point. They certainly arent behind in multiplat games, graphics, online functions, user features and interfaces, and are missing plenty of hardcore games that alot of us play on the PS3. Nintendo is for its 1st party titles and thats about that at this point, and so far theyve done very little with any news on 1st party games in regards to the WiiU. EE already pointed out that they disappointed on both those ends, tech wise and game wise.

Jvig43 · 06-05-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

The top one is Wii U. The textures are a lot more detailed. I get the point, but it's painfully obvious.

It wasn't hard to tell, but yeah I'm not someone who is going to ignore that little of updated graphics and just allow that small of an update to become acceptable for dishing out whatever the asking price is for their new system. Its running previous gen games for a reason here.

descendency · 06-05-2012, 05:42 PM

I get tired of the "next generation" argument and the "fun games" argument.

Dead Rising was on the 360 and PS3 way before the Wii, because when they finally brought the Wii version out, it was painfully bad. It wasn't a developer issue. It was the difference between next generation and previous generation gameplay.

Or take The Conduit. It's arguably the best shooter on the Wii. It's not even in the same ballpark as any of the best shooters on the 360, PS3, or PC.

Nintendo is the only company that makes AAA caliber games on the Wii.

Processing power, RAM, and GPU power do a lot more than just "make pretty graphics". Games like Fallout 3 are simply not possible on the Wii.

Nintendo makes the best games of anyone (and it's not even close), but the 3rd party games are terrible on their hardware, which has basically been true since the end of the N64.

nrk · 06-05-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Ok so where is your argument then, that games for the WiiU constitute it being next gen? ZombiU with its one video, Mario Wii just brought over to the Wii U, and a ton of previous gen games remade to fit it in the new controller? I have always maintained games are the most important thing, and theres another department Nintendo has failed in with the release of this thing. And they havent had too many announcements with 1st party games because they dont exist in any form to show us as of right now. This system is going to be competing with the 360/Ps3, thats this gens systems not next gens.

The games are next-gen, because it is on Nintendo's successor console. It will compete with PS3/360, sure, but that's because they will be releasing their next generation consoles later. The 360 competed with the Gamecube and PS2 for a short time as well. The next generation of consoles will be Wii U, PS4, and the next box. Games and graphics don't define a generation of consoles, it's what consoles that are going to compete that defines a generation of consoles.

Nintendo has failed with the release of this thing? It hasn't even been released yet, and not many games have been announced. Where's this crystal ball you have?

Jvig43 · 06-05-2012, 05:45 PM

And one of the biggest critiques is that the WiiU is offering very little in terms of 1st party games as of right now. Perfectly valid.

Jvig43 · 06-05-2012, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nrk

The games are next-gen, because it is on Nintendo's successor console. It will compete with PS3/360, sure, but that's because they will be releasing their next generation of consoles later. The 360 competed with the Gamecube and PS2 for a short time as well. The next generation of consoles will be Wii U, PS4, and the next box. Games don't define a generation of consoles, it's what consoles that are going to compete that defines a generation of consoles.

Nintendo has failed with the release of this thing? It hasn't even been released yet, and not many games have been announced. Where's this crystal ball you have?

No that does not make games next gen, nor does it make the system next gen. I don't ******* go out and buy Nintendos old games on my Wii and call them god damn next gen games because I'm playing them on the Wii, or call my remakes of FF1 & 2 for the playstation current gen because they were remade for the playstation. Thats a ******* idiotic and terrible argument on all fronts. If you want to shell out that much money in order to call these games next gen go right the **** ahead, but that doesn't make them next gen. And where is your crystal ball saying that Nintendo is planning on releasing a new console after this one to compete with the PS4 next xbox? The Xbox 360 didn't compete with the gamecube or the Ps2, it was on its own in terms of next gen which is why it sold so well through its life cycle.

Forenci · 06-05-2012, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz

it's how they are trying to stay in business, obviously being 4 years behind on everything is killing them

Quote:

Originally Posted by nrk

Yes, one quick statement at the end of my post, which has little to do with the main point, is what I'm basing my argument off of. lulz

If you think the Wii U graphics aren't better than the Wii's, I don't know what to tell you. Once we get the final specs (more detail about GPU and CPU), we will be able to see if they are more powerful than the 360/PS3. Conference demos aren't final. Graphics improve when developers get used to the system (obv. if you ever played a console at the beginning and mid/end of a lifecycle.) or when the product is a final version.

Of course the Wii U is going to get current gen games. They will be the first released. Developers are going to be working on the Wii U while they work on PS3 and 360. As for games that have already been released, it's another platform for game sales. Is Nintendo forcing Bioware and these other companies to rerelease their games on the Wii U? Nope. It's their choice. If you really think that they only have older games that have been released already, well that's your choice for not doing any research. I honestly don't care about multiplats for the Wii U, I'll get them for my PC if possible. All I really care about are Nintendo's first party games, which haven't had too many announcements.

Lol, serious gamer who cares about graphics on consoles. Okie dokie. If you want to be a graphics *****, play PC. Otherwise it's just silly.

Graphics having nothing to do with a generation of consoles, FACT. Even if your ignorance disagrees.

I'm a big PC gamer myself, but that's not really a fair argument. There are many people who strictly consider themselves just console gamers and for them to not expect a leap in graphical enhancement is silly. They have every right to.

Now, should it be a massive leap forward over the previous generations? In the case of the Wii U? Yes. But that's simply because they made almost no jump with the Wii. In the case of the next-gen Xbox and Playstation? Not really. I think what Nintendo did realize was that console gamers are not necessarily attached to having insane graphical capability as opposed to having something that worked and was affordable.

They need to improve, but it doesn't have to be a massive overhaul of content. What drives sales is having both the ability to capture casual and core gamers. Sony and Micrsoft got the core gamers while Nintendo got the much bigger casual market. Fenikz was correct in that they did get that part right. The thing Nintendo didn't do properly was get core gamers. It's why the Wii sales have plateaued and the Xbox sales have steadied and taken control in the U.S. Casual gamers aren't going to invest a ton of money in buying games and the novelty of the Wii eventually wore off. I'm worried that they will still fail to capture the core gamers with the Wii U.

I will also disagree with Bantx on buying the next-gen Playstation based purely on his own experience of reliability. I've had my fair share of issues with both the 360 and PS3 in terms of working. I also factor in that Sony had one of the biggest colossal **** ups of all time with their security breach. It was just as bad as the red ring of death in my opinion. They blatantly ignored security and lost the trust of many people with how they handled it. I don't like paying for Xbox Live but it is still a million times better than the PSN. That's another thing Nintendo is completely **** at. Their online community and network is atrocious. They need to step up big time.

In a perfect world, I'd want all three consoles. I still enjoy classic Nintendo games but it is getting old. I still want to play new Zelda and Mario games but I'm not going to waste my time buying a Wii U just for those games. I just feel like Nintendo has become one big gimmick company. They're so obsessed with trying to be "different" that they alienate core gamers. I'd like to have the next-gen Sony and Microsoft consoles. They both have games I like and things I like about each console.

nrk · 06-05-2012, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

And one of the biggest critiques is that the WiiU is offering very little in terms of 1st party games as of right now. Perfectly valid.

The WiiU isn't offering anything as of now, it's not even out. They're not going to announce every single game they have in production. They've only announced 4 games that will be released during their launch. If you think they've announced all they have planned or are working on, that is a bit naive.

Pikmin 3
New Super Mario Brothers U
Project P-100
Game & Wario (I'll be fair and say I'm one of the few fans of Wario Ware, most probably won't look forward to this as I am)

That's what they have shown. People know other games are in the works. Like a new Smash for WiiU and 3DS. To

Then of course they've announced games that will be on the 360/PS3 as well.
AC3
Aliens
Darksiders II
Tekken Tag 2

I'm intrigued by Scribblenauts Unlimited (I have the previous games in the series, pretty fun games) and ZombieU as well.

nrk · 06-05-2012, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

No that does not make games next gen, nor does it make the system next gen. I don't ******* go out and buy Nintendos old games on my Wii and call them god damn next gen games because I'm playing them on the Wii, or call my remakes of FF1 & 2 for the playstation current gen because they were remade for the playstation. Thats a ******* idiotic and terrible argument on all fronts.

That's not my argument at all. I never once mentioned virtual console and hd remakes. Games aren't next gen. CONSOLES have a generation. You seem to have missed that point..... again. GENERATION OF CONSOLES doesn't include games. And that is what "NEXT GEN" refers to.

Raiderz4Life · 06-05-2012, 06:29 PM

I agree with Forenci on just about every point he made.

thefalconer · 06-05-2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiderz4life

I agree with Forenci on just about every point he made.

oh yeah? why dontcha wipe his children from your mouth.

Cigaro · 06-05-2012, 06:34 PM

I don't think you can ever hold first-party games against Nintendo. Its the one thing they do unquestionably right, don't see that changing. I would not be worried as far as first-party games go. Third-party will be where the uncertainty lies for me.

ElectricEye · 06-05-2012, 08:01 PM

This thread has become absolutely ridiculous.

Raiderz4Life · 06-05-2012, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefalconer

oh yeah? why dontcha wipe his children from your mouth.

lol your post is so dumb it made me laugh.

ElectricEye · 06-05-2012, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nrk

That's not my argument at all. I never once mentioned virtual console and hd remakes. Games aren't next gen. CONSOLES have a generation. You seem to have missed that point..... again. GENERATION OF CONSOLES doesn't include games. And that is what "NEXT GEN" refers to.

..which is entirely arguing about semantics and terminology. That doesn't really matter whatsoever in this case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nrk

If you think the Wii U graphics aren't better than the Wii's, I don't know what to tell you. Once we get the final specs (more detail about GPU and CPU), we will be able to see if they are more powerful than the 360/PS3. Conference demos aren't final. Graphics improve when developers get used to the system (obv. if you ever played a console at the beginning and mid/end of a lifecycle.) or when the product is a final version.

We've seen absolutely nothing to suggest that the Wii U is a significant leap forward technologically over what we already have. Do you think for a second that if they were killing Sony and Microsoft hardware wise that they wouldn't be beating their chest about it? This entire conference is about marketing and that's a MASSIVE marketing point. They wouldn't be able to resist squawking about it(nor should they). Developers would be announcing big time titles to take advantage of it as well and we've seen none of that. All the third party games announced basically look the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nrk

Lol, serious gamer who cares about graphics on consoles. Okie dokie. If you want to be a graphics *****, play PC. Otherwise it's just silly.

Graphics having nothing to do with a generation of consoles, FACT. Even if your ignorance disagrees.

The PC will always have more advanced hardware, no one can deny that. But it's entirely reasonable to expect consoles to advance their technology forward. Forenci basically killed this portion of it already, but I'll just basically echo what he said.

Before the ad hominem crap you're so eager to shout at every given opportunity gets turned on me, I have a high end computer currently and have at most points in my life as well.

I really don't hate Nintendo's approach. If they don't want to compete graphically, that's fine. I personally will take art style over polygon count any day of the week(Journey was one of the best looking games I've ever seen.)...and I don't think I'm really alone in that. I have other options to look for as far as that end of it goes. I am legitimately disappointed that they've to basically take the easy road lately, with tons of casual titles and sequels. The quality on their first party offerings is always there, but it's all starting to feel very sameish. We(myself included) accuse so many company's/games of being derivative, but Nintendo always seems to get a pass on this front. If you aren't going to compete visually and furthermore technologically(which is perfectly fine, before anyone puts words in my mouth), you damn well better be coming out with original, fresh games year after year. They aren't doing that for me anymore.

Furthermore, the approach they've chosen to take completely alienates them from third party developers. They have plenty of support right now, sure. But when developers have to make two different games for the Wii U and PS4/720, that will go away. Just as it did with the Wii.