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Old 07-18-2012, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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How come no is asking Tom Corbett questions? He was the DA when it first happened, why didn't they do more to follow through with it


I think a lot of it is, people just want to rub it in PSU and Joe's face. Think about it, for a guy and school who preech about doing things the right way, and they don't take a wrong step, the minute someone slips up don't you just rub it in their face? Yeah they were wrong, but some of the things people are talking about is ridiculous.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Blind loyalty? What about blind hatred? People just blindly accept what ESPN (yes, the same ESPN that held onto evidence against Bernie Fine but didn't bother doing anything with it) and what all of the talking heads have to say about what happened, but don't even bother with any of the real evidence or facts. It's honestly hysterical to watch everyone bash PSU but they don't even know what really happened yet. That's right, no one does because all of the evidence and facts haven't come out yet.
You see...the problem with your statements are that they completely ignore the recent Sandusky trial and testimony of all the victims who testified. I would seriously hope that people know what happened, since you know...they sentenced Sandusky to prison. Pointing the finger at the board of trustees is just useless. That's just further spreading more blame and probably the product of spin put out by Spanier, Curly, and Schultz's people.

Do you think those guys or the entire board of trustees covered everything up? The board of trustees can't even agree on basic budget concerns, let alone orchestrate a systemic cover-up of child rape.
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Old 07-18-2012, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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Yes. Everyone is just overreacting and we should all stop rubbing this in Penn States faces. Rival fans are just giddy kids got molested so they now have something to make fun of Penn State for.

Wrong. People and pissed and shocked and calling for "crazy" actions to be taken because this is absolutely disgusting behavior. Nothing more, nothing less. Demanding people go to jail, a statue come down, or a school stop playing football are really not crazy responses to the most disgusting cover up I've ever seen.
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Old 07-18-2012, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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Blind loyalty? What about blind hatred? People just blindly accept what ESPN (yes, the same ESPN that held onto evidence against Bernie Fine but didn't bother doing anything with it) and what all of the talking heads have to say about what happened, but don't even bother with any of the real evidence or facts. It's honestly hysterical to watch everyone bash PSU but they don't even know what really happened yet. That's right, no one does because all of the evidence and facts haven't come out yet. People just want blood because PSU/Paterno have created an atmosphere about doing things the right way and are known for it. The media has created a clusterf*** of misinformation to create juicy stories and it's really sad how far some of them have taken it. The worst part is, people just blindly believe everything these "jounalists" write, regardless of whether they actually know they are talking about or not.

It's funny how I get piled on simply because I don't believe there was a cover up. But at the same time, no one has taken the time to even read the report. I have read the report and Freeh doesn't give any evidence to support why he says there was a cover up. Not a single shred of it. He makes a lot of bold assumptions, and that's about it. I'm not the only one who can see the holes in the Freeh Report either:

http://www.johnziegler.com/editorial...?editorial=219

There are A LOT of assumptions made in this report. Take some time to read it, I encourage you to do so. If you can't see that the Freeh report is nothing more than an opinion, then you are truly a blind hater and simply want blood just to be like everyone else.

Isn't it ironic that this report puts so much focus on Paterno that the Board of Trustees goes nearly completely unnoticed? Isn't it funny how you can write anything you want about a dead man with no ramifications whatsoever? Isn't it funny how no one from Penn State has stood up to defend the beating that the University has taken? It's almost like they wanted it this way. The lack of leadership is just unbelievable.

Oh, and in case no one knows who Louis Freeh is, please take a second to read about some of his actions as director of the FBI. Absolutely horrifying.

http://lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson344.html

Hell, if you wanted to pay me six million dollars, I would write anything you wanted me to.
The burden of proof that you're requiring to be convinced there was a cover up is beyond ridiculous. The emails that were released clearly illustrate that Joe was made aware of the goings on with regard to Sandusky well before the date he told the a grand jury. Also, the court of public opinion does not require the case be beyond any reasonable doubt (even though, in my opinion, it is even beyond that).

Also, when trying to provide counter evidence to an argument it's generally best to provide links to actual professional writers/bloggers and not hacks like you did. Furthermore, my favorite tactic that your ilk have used (and you did too!) is the character assassination attempts on Freeh himself. The irony in it that "Hey Freeh did bad stuff at one point in time, therefore don't listen to him because he's bad" is hysterical when pressed up against "Paterno did so many great things in his time, don't let one mistake ruin the man's legacy" that PSU supporters love trumpeting out.

Listen, I get it. This thing that you held dear for so long is now found to have a rotten core. It's tough to acknowledge, I'm sure. But if you want to have an actual discussion about it I suggest being a bit more introspective and understanding why people are so upset about it. The acts themselves and the cover up that went with it are disgusting and I just hope that people like you come around to admit that.
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Old 07-18-2012, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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I don't blindly accept things from ESPn. But yes, I do quite confidently, accept the findings of a report conducted by the former director of the FBI, hired independently by the university. I also accept pretty easily the grand jury testimony of these people.

The Freeh report is more than just someone's opinion. It is a well qualified person who conducted a huge investigation and came to conclussions. You say they would say anything they wanted for money, why would the people that hired him want him to find that there was a cover up?

Now, of course ESPNs coverage focuses more heavily on Paterno because he's the person people are interested in and know the most about. However, the Freeh report didn't mention Paterno because he was popular, but because he was heavily involved.

But yes. You're probably right. It's all just an opinion and we shouldn't all assume Paterno did anything wrong.

Not believing the investigation of the former director of the FBI qualifies as blind loyalty to me.
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Old 07-18-2012, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Freeh blew Waco and covered up hangings involving the Oklahoma City bombings? THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION.
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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I can't even believe the crap I just read.

What shift are you taking to guard JoePa's statue, Santonio?
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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I can't even believe the crap I just read.

What shift are you taking to guard JoePa's statue, Santonio?
I honestly couldn't care less what they do with it. PSU will move on with or without it. I just think it would be fair to wait until all of the information comes out regarding the Schultz/Curley case and Paterno's role in it. If in fact he did cover it up, then get rid of it obviously and move the f on
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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I honestly couldn't care less what they do with it. PSU will move on with or without it. I just think it would be fair to wait until all of the information comes out regarding the Schultz/Curley case and Paterno's role in it. If in fact he did cover it up, then get rid of it obviously and move the f on
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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How long are we supposed to wait for more information to come out? There's plenty of information out already. I highly doubt there's gonna be some shocking new evidence that proves Paterno had nothing to do with it after all like some PSU fans seem to be waiting for.
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Old 07-19-2012, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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How long are we supposed to wait for more information to come out? There's plenty of information out already. I highly doubt there's gonna be some shocking new evidence that proves Paterno had nothing to do with it after all like some PSU fans seem to be waiting for.
TBH, the vast majority of PSU fans accept that Paterno should have done more. It's the cover up that the majority of us don't buy. He reports it to his AD and the head of police and then tried later to cover it up? Doesn't make sense to me. If he wanted to cover it up then why even risk reporting to the head of police in the first place?

There is still the Schultz/Curley and possibly Spanier trial yet. The big piece of info I'm waiting on is the conversation between Curley and Paterno that Lead to the e-mail where Curley changes his mind. There are more than one way to interpret the e-mail that supposedly condemns Paterno. Yes a cover up is one way to interpret it, but Joe could have said something as simple as "maybe you should talk to Jerry about what happened first" and could have elicited the same e-mail from Curley. It's also possible they didn't even discuss what to do next and Curley simply wanted to get a feel for what McQueary said during their conversation.

If he indeed saw a rape, then why would his dad and Dr. Dranov tell him to go to the head football coach? That suggests that he either a) didn't see a rape, b) saw a rape, was an incoherent mess (understandably) and didn't do a very good job at explaining what he saw to his dad/Dranov or Paterno and should have called the cops himself, or c) thought there was something suspicious going on, but never actually saw anything (he said himself that he didn't see penetration) and was so shocked that he became an incoherent mess and didn't explain it very well to anyone.
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Old 07-19-2012, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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I honestly couldn't care less what they do with it. PSU will move on with or without it. I just think it would be fair to wait until all of the information comes out regarding the Schultz/Curley case and Paterno's role in it. If in fact he did cover it up, then get rid of it obviously and move the f on
What kind of magical information are you expecting to hear? Anything that could have exonerated them from this mess they would have brought up on their own during their grand jury testimony. Instead they lied during that time period to create the sense they did everything they could do and subsequently information has come out that contradicts their claims. If anything, I would anticipate the only information that will trickle out is additional evidence that they knowingly screwed up otherwise they would have volunteered any information that would help their case from the get go. The fact of the matter is, there is none.
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Old 07-19-2012, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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McQ is just as guilty and got a promotion out of it. As for the rest, they should have gotten outside agencies involved instead of their half-assed effort at being "humane". The lack of outrage by them to do more is what constitutes a cover-up. They had an obligation to do more.
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Old 07-19-2012, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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TBH, the vast majority of PSU fans accept that Paterno should have done more. It's the cover up that the majority of us don't buy. He reports it to his AD and the head of police and then tried later to cover it up? Doesn't make sense to me. If he wanted to cover it up then why even risk reporting to the head of police in the first place?

There is still the Schultz/Curley and possibly Spanier trial yet. The big piece of info I'm waiting on is the conversation between Curley and Paterno that Lead to the e-mail where Curley changes his mind. There are more than one way to interpret the e-mail that supposedly condemns Paterno. Yes a cover up is one way to interpret it, but Joe could have said something as simple as "maybe you should talk to Jerry about what happened first" and could have elicited the same e-mail from Curley. It's also possible they didn't even discuss what to do next and Curley simply wanted to get a feel for what McQueary said during their conversation.

If he indeed saw a rape, then why would his dad and Dr. Dranov tell him to go to the head football coach? That suggests that he either a) didn't see a rape, b) saw a rape, was an incoherent mess (understandably) and didn't do a very good job at explaining what he saw to his dad/Dranov or Paterno and should have called the cops himself, or c) thought there was something suspicious going on, but never actually saw anything (he said himself that he didn't see penetration) and was so shocked that he became an incoherent mess and didn't explain it very well to anyone.
Wait, you use the fact that he maybe said "go talk to Jerry first" as acceptable behavior/rationale for not going to the proper authorities immediately? If so, then I think we've identified the problem with your reasoning which is, simply put, that you don't feel like the alleged (well not alleged anymore) crimes that occurred did not warrant IMMEDIATE action. If that's the case, and your and other supporters' cavalier attitudes are really disgusting.
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Wait, you use the fact that he maybe said "go talk to Jerry first" as acceptable behavior/rationale for not going to the proper authorities immediately? If so, then I think we've identified the problem with your reasoning which is, simply put, that you don't feel like the alleged (well not alleged anymore) crimes that occurred did not warrant IMMEDIATE action. If that's the case, and your and other supporters' cavalier attitudes are really disgusting.
So you're saying that I agree with Tim Curley's decision to not go to the police? That's absolutely ridiculous.

I just find it ridiculous to place this much blame on the only person who actually did anything. Should Joe have done more? Yes. I have said that numerous times already. I just don't buy that he tried to orchestrate a cover up, nor do I believe that these four men MALICIOUSLY covered up a child molester to protect PSU's image. There is a logical reason they came to that decision. Would Penn State's image be better or worse overall if Sandusky were found guilty in 2001 rather than 2012?
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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I just don't buy that he tried to orchestrate a cover up, nor do I believe that these four men MALICIOUSLY covered up a child molester to protect PSU's image. There is a logical reason they came to that decision. Would Penn State's image be better or worse overall if Sandusky were found guilty in 2001 rather than 2012?
Even if they are given every single benefit of the doubt in not maliciously covering this up, they still showed too much restraint in dealing with the situation. They were too close to the situation and had too much invested to make any real judgement calls. They needed to have people interview Sandusky and talk to the kids at 2nd Mile. There was zero digging. Its like knowing that someone sent you someone's graduation money in the mail by mistake. Instead of correcting the mistake, they just let it go. They had a vested interest in not correcting the mistake. Now, switch that with reputation and child rape.

If they would have blown this up in 2001 then Penn State would still stand for some integrity and people would not be as harassed on the street. There would be a few comments, but Nittany Lions could still be proud of their organization. Now, they might as well bulldoze the school and start over.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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So you're saying that I agree with Tim Curley's decision to not go to the police? That's absolutely ridiculous.

I just find it ridiculous to place this much blame on the only person who actually did anything. Should Joe have done more? Yes. I have said that numerous times already. I just don't buy that he tried to orchestrate a cover up, nor do I believe that these four men MALICIOUSLY covered up a child molester to protect PSU's image. There is a logical reason they came to that decision. Would Penn State's image be better or worse overall if Sandusky were found guilty in 2001 rather than 2012?
Here's their logical reason: "We need to cover our own asses" (pun definitely not intended). That's it. Not sure what you're getting at with the last rhetorical question. I think it's pretty apparent that had they acted appropriately and handed Sandusky in when they first were made aware of his activities it definitely reflects better on the University and the administration. And I have no problem going after Joe. Based on those emails it's clear that Joe said something to stop the others from going to the police. Even if that's not the ONLY reason they didn't do so, it still makes him a monster more concerned with covering his own reputation.

I really don't want to make it seem like I'm attacking you personally and I'm sure you're a very nice person. I just can't, for a second, understand, in light of everything, the blind loyalty that you're showing (along with many other PSU fans). You and the others are really the personification of everything that went wrong in Happy Valley that enabled these people to believe what they were doing was OK.

Edited to add: No, I wasn't inferring that you were OK with the decision to not go to the police. Just that you felt that potentially talking to Jerry before going to the police was appropriate, therefore insinuating that the crime really wasn't that severe. Look at it this way. You find someone murdered and you have a good idea who did it. Do you go confront that person first or call the police upon finding the dead body, regardless if that murderer is a friend of yours? Now, lets say you find out that rather than murder someone, this person stole your laptop computer. For which crime do you feel it appropriate to go to the police immediately? Which one do you feel is closer in brutality to Sandusky's crimes?

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Old 07-19-2012, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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Here's their logical reason: "We need to cover our own asses" (pun definitely not intended). That's it. Not sure what you're getting at with the last rhetorical question. I think it's pretty apparent that had they acted appropriately and handed Sandusky in when they first were made aware of his activities it definitely reflects better on the University and the administration. And I have no problem going after Joe. Based on those emails it's clear that Joe said something to stop the others from going to the police. Even if that's not the ONLY reason they didn't do so, it still makes him a monster more concerned with covering his own reputation.

I really don't want to make it seem like I'm attacking you personally and I'm sure you're a very nice person. I just can't, for a second, understand, in light of everything, the blind loyalty that you're showing (along with many other PSU fans). You and the others are really the personification of everything that went wrong in Happy Valley that enabled these people to believe what they were doing was OK.

Edited to add: No, I wasn't inferring that you were OK with the decision to not go to the police. Just that you felt that potentially talking to Jerry before going to the police was appropriate, therefore insinuating that the crime really wasn't that severe. Look at it this way. You find someone murdered and you have a good idea who did it. Do you go confront that person first or call the police upon finding the dead body, regardless if that murderer is a friend of yours? Now, lets say you find out that rather than murder someone, this person stole your laptop computer. For which crime do you feel it appropriate to go to the police immediately? Which one do you feel is closer in brutality to Sandusky's crimes?
I pretty much agree with everything andyjo has said in this thread, especially the past few pages.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:44 AM    (permalink
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By knowing it ws happening, and knowing what little he had done hadn't stopped it, yes Paterno is definitely a responsible party here.

Acting to the Freeh report, he had heard things like this for at least 14 years, starting in 1999, something he flat out lied about in his testimony.

How can you say one of the most, if not the most, powerful person at Penn state knew about this for 14 years and never made sure it was resolved, and then that he wasn't involved in the cover up? If he wasn't involved, don't you think he would have done something that actually, you know, fixed the problem rather than keep his mouth shut for years and continue to allow Sandusky on campus?

Just use you're brain. There's no way these other gys decided to cover it up, and successfully did it, without Joe being involved. If he wasnt included in the cover up, he would have ensured that Sandsusky was put in jail or at least properly investigated.
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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By knowing it ws happening, and knowing what little he had done hadn't stopped it, yes Paterno is definitely a responsible party here.
This pretty much sums up my entire view on this.

Do I think Paterno had some huge hidden agenda in all this? Probably not.

But he knew something was going on, and purposely chose NOT to do anything other than just mention it to his boss. As someone just mentioned, the lack of outrage towards this aspect of the whole situation by the PSU fan base is what irritates me the most. Between brushing it off as, "Oh well ya he could have done more, but at least he told someone," and acting like he had no power to do anything drastic or bring this out in the open, I just will never understand or sympathize with any PSU fans thinking those things.

When you hear something once, you may brush it off as a rumor. Twice, maye think a little harder, but still give the guy the benefit of the doubt. But when you hear about multiple incidents as it seems Paterno did, it's beyond the line of thinking that he'd be scared to falsely accuse someone of something.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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This pretty much sums up my entire view on this.

Do I think Paterno had some huge hidden agenda in all this? Probably not.

But he knew something was going on, and purposely chose NOT to do anything other than just mention it to his boss. As someone just mentioned, the lack of outrage towards this aspect of the whole situation by the PSU fan base is what irritates me the most. Between brushing it off as, "Oh well ya he could have done more, but at least he told someone," and acting like he had no power to do anything drastic or bring this out in the open, I just will never understand or sympathize with any PSU fans thinking those things.

When you hear something once, you may brush it off as a rumor. Twice, maye think a little harder, but still give the guy the benefit of the doubt. But when you hear about multiple incidents as it seems Paterno did, it's beyond the line of thinking that he'd be scared to falsely accuse someone of something.
Don't damn the entire fanbase.

But there is a sizable portion that has that insular, idiotic mentality you are describing.
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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Just saw on Twitter that the board of Trustees voted to take down the statue. It'll come down sometime this weekend. Timing and reactions will be interesting.

Had to happen. It would be a ridiculously hypocritical image if left standing on the campus. Can't wait to see if truly ignorant people protest this decision.
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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Don't damn the entire fanbase.

But there is a sizable portion that has that insular, idiotic mentality you are describing.
Right, I said I can't understand or sympathize with those that think that way. The ones that actually think and feel like normal human beings, I feel bad for them and how the mouthbreathers are making their entire fan base look.
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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Right, I said I can't understand or sympathize with those that think that way. The ones that actually think and feel like normal human beings, I feel bad for them and how the mouthbreathers are making their entire fan base look.
Yep. I will be impressed if the sane PSU people step up and start vilifying the morons. Particularly powerful alumni like LaVarr has.
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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I know at this point it's getting redundant and we shouldn't be surprised, but oh....my....god...

http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fi... =890&style=2

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Penn State needs to tell all the haters "where to go" and shut up. The real victim was Coach Paterno. The BOTs caved in to pressure from the media and killed him. The BOTs should have ignored the media and ran them off campus and out of town
I just...I don't even.....he's trolling right? Please tell me he's just trolling...
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