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Old 07-14-2012, 08:31 AM    (permalink
Santonio10
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Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown View Post
Pretty freaky stuff, no?

But I heard that he was also working a mob related drug case around that time as well. Still, it makes one wonder. Hiding a serial child rapist is a pretty evil thing to do. Not too far away from being able to rationalize away a murder. To protect the greater good, you know?

While we are on crazy conspiracies, an early rumor that is still lingering is that Sandusky used the second mile to pimp boys to rich pedos in exchange for donations. Too crazy for me to believe but at this point I guess anything is possible.
My god you just don't stop do you? Haha for as much as you hate the BWI free board you certainly have become as crazy as some of them.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:38 AM    (permalink
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My god you just don't stop do you? Haha for as much as you hate the BWI free board you certainly have become as crazy as some of them.
The difference is that this stuff actually happened. Here is a picture of Ray Gricar.



That man has been missing since 2005.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...133615093.html

100x different story than people who still believe that Joe Pa didnt' know anything.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:03 AM    (permalink
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My god you just don't stop do you? Haha for as much as you hate the BWI free board you certainly have become as crazy as some of them.
Dude, you are failing at reading comprehension.

I didn't say I believed any of it. I am merely relaying the crazy conspiracy stuff.

It's not like I made it up. I got it from a Pittsburgh radio guy. And you might have heard of DeadSpin.

The Gricar stuff is true. The man disappeared in the middle of the night and his harddrive was missing as well. I'm pretty sure it was the mob. How is that crazy?

My crazy conspiracy that I believe is that TSM was a slush fund for the football team. Again, I can't take credit for thinking that one up, it's out there on the netz.

And in light of all of this, I don't think that's too crazy.

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Old 07-14-2012, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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I know all about Ray Gricar, I live 15 minutes from Bellefonte (where he lived before he went missing). However, implying that Paterno had to do with his disappearance is just absolutely ridiculous. So now he was a mafia boss too? If there were a connection between the two it would have been established already. Trust me, this has already been thought of and there is no connection between the two. As if this whole thing isn't bad enough already
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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I know all about Ray Gricar, I live 15 minutes from Bellefonte (where he lived before he went missing). However, implying that Paterno had to do with his disappearance is just absolutely ridiculous. So now he was a mafia boss too? If there were a connection between the two it would have been established already. Trust me, this has already been thought of and there is no connection between the two. As if this whole thing isn't bad enough already
All JHL brought up was an old rumor. I don't think anyone here buys it.

There is going to be a lot of speculation and wild rumors going on for a long while with PSU. That's what happens when you have a power structure that was as corrupt as this. Everything comes into question.

One of the things that annoyed me about my PSU buds was the "No major violations and very high graduation rate" crap they would throw out.

I always said it was BS because there is no way that 1) A football factory can be that clean and 2) No way the graduation rate of a bunch of football players is much higher than the school average without a bunch of help/cooking the books.

Now, it definitely appears that I will be proven correct. Definitely on 1) and most likely on 2). There have to be plenty of professors that are tired of how things were run. Things will be exposed.

Even back in 1986 that was the case if you see the Reilly article Complex posted.

There is almost always a negative tension between the academic side and the athletic side of a school with a major sports department. This scandal will rip that open at PSU.
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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All JHL brought up was an old rumor. I don't think anyone here buys it.

There is going to be a lot of speculation and wild rumors going on for a long while with PSU. That's what happens when you have a power structure that was as corrupt as this. Everything comes into question.

One of the things that annoyed me about my PSU buds was the "No major violations and very high graduation rate" crap they would throw out.

I always said it was BS because there is no way that 1) A football factory can be that clean and 2) No way the graduation rate of a bunch of football players is much higher than the school average without a bunch of help/cooking the books.

Now, it definitely appears that I will be proven correct. Definitely on 1) and most likely on 2). There have to be plenty of professors that are tired of how things were run. Things will be exposed.

Even back in 1986 that was the case if you see the Reilly article Complex posted.

There is almost always a negative tension between the academic side and the athletic side of a school with a major sports department. This scandal will rip that open at PSU.
I actually know the head academic advisor to the football team at PSU, not to mention numerous players and former players. Joe ran a tight ship with academics, trust me on that one.
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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All JHL brought up was an old rumor. I don't think anyone here buys it.

There is going to be a lot of speculation and wild rumors going on for a long while with PSU. That's what happens when you have a power structure that was as corrupt as this. Everything comes into question.

One of the things that annoyed me about my PSU buds was the "No major violations and very high graduation rate" crap they would throw out.

I always said it was BS because there is no way that 1) A football factory can be that clean and 2) No way the graduation rate of a bunch of football players is much higher than the school average without a bunch of help/cooking the books.

Now, it definitely appears that I will be proven correct. Definitely on 1) and most likely on 2). There have to be plenty of professors that are tired of how things were run. Things will be exposed.

Even back in 1986 that was the case if you see the Reilly article Complex posted.

There is almost always a negative tension between the academic side and the athletic side of a school with a major sports department. This scandal will rip that open at PSU.
I thought this was interesting: http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-...110211aaa.html

Three public schools show up on that list: PSU, Miami, and Rutgers. The rest are private schools or military schools. PSU and Miami have both been recently caught up in major scandals.

Rutgers doesn't seem out of place on that list (they're an elite research university, on par with Ivy League schools), but when Miami ties the US Military Academy and Penn State ties Stanford...

But I'll take Santonio's word unless evidence comes out.
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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The Paterno's being a douches and raping Penn State

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In January 2011, Joe Paterno learned prosecutors were investigating his longtime assistant coach Jerry Sandusky for sexually assaulting young boys. Soon, Mr. Paterno had testified before a grand jury, and the rough outlines of what would become a giant scandal had been published in a local newspaper.That same month, Mr. Paterno, the football coach at Penn State, began negotiating with his superiors to amend his contract, with the timing something of a surprise because the contract was not set to expire until the end of 2012, according to university documents and people with knowledge of the discussions. By August, Mr. Paterno and the university’s president, both of whom were by then embroiled in the Sandusky investigation, had reached an agreement.

Mr. Paterno was to be paid $3 million at the end of the 2011 season if he agreed it would be his last. Interest-free loans totaling $350,000 that the university had made to Mr. Paterno over the years would be forgiven as part of the retirement package. He would also have the use of the university’s private plane and a luxury box at Beaver Stadium for him and his family to use over the next 25 years.

The university’s full board of trustees was kept in the dark about the arrangement until November, when Mr. Sandusky was arrested and the contract arrangements, along with so much else at Penn State, were upended. Mr. Paterno was fired, two of the university’s top officials were indicted in connection with the scandal, and the trustees, who held Mr. Paterno’s financial fate in their hands, came under verbal assault from the coach’s angry supporters.

Board members who raised questions about whether the university ought to go forward with the payments were quickly shut down, according to two people with direct knowledge of the negotiations.

In the end, the board of trustees — bombarded with hate mail and threatened with a defamation lawsuit by Mr. Paterno’s family — gave the family virtually everything it wanted, with a package worth roughly $5.5 million. Documents show that the board even tossed in some extras that the family demanded, like the use of specialized hydrotherapy massage equipment for Mr. Paterno’s wife at the university’s Lasch Building, where Mr. Sandusky had molested a number of his victims.

The details of Mr. Paterno and his family’s fight for money seem to deepen one of the lasting truths of the Sandusky scandal: the significant power that Mr. Paterno exerted on the state institution, its officials, its alumni and its purse strings.

Since Mr. Paterno’s death in January, Mr. Paterno’s family, lawyers and publicists have mounted an aggressive campaign to protect his legacy. The family and its lawyers have hammered the university’s board of trustees, accusing members of attempting to deflect blame onto a dying Mr. Paterno. This week, they angrily disputed the conclusions of an independent investigation that asserted Mr. Paterno and other top university officials protected a serial predator in order to “avoid the consequences of bad publicity” for the university, its football program and its coach’s reputation.

On Friday, Wick Sollers, a lawyer for Mr. Paterno and his family, said that it was Penn State that last summer proposed the lucrative retirement package, and that many of the aspects of the proposal — use of the plane, the luxury box — had existed in prior contracts.

Information about the salary paid to Mr. Paterno, one of the longest serving and most successful college football coaches in history, had for many years been hard to come by. In recent years, though, it became fairly common knowledge that he earned about $1 million annually, not counting his television deals and his contracts with shoe and apparel companies.

But speculation about just how long he was going to remain the well-compensated coach of Penn State had been going on for a decade or more. Mr. Paterno survived an attempt to force him into retirement in 2004, and before the Sandusky revelations, his most recent deal ran through the end of 2012.

ccording to university records, Mr. Paterno first expressed a desire to revisit his contract in January 2011. It was very early in that month that he learned he had been subpoenaed to testify before the Sandusky grand jury.

But it was not until summer — after Mr. Paterno, the university president and two other senior officials at the university had all testified before the Sandusky grand jury — that the idea that Mr. Paterno might retire in exchange for a multimillion-dollar payout gained traction.

By August, a deal had effectively been reached, though it and the idea that Mr. Paterno might make 2011 his last season had not been announced at the time. Details of the agreement were known to a handful of board members but not shared with the full board, according to people with knowledge of the events.

On Nov. 5, 2011, Mr. Sandusky was arrested, and two Penn State administrators — men who were Mr. Paterno’s superiors — were indicted on charges of failing to report to the authorities a 2001 allegation that Mr. Sandusky had attacked a young boy in the football building’s showers.

Quickly, it became clear that Mr. Paterno, too, had failed to go to the authorities or even to confront Mr. Sandusky after he had been told in person of the episode. The prospect that Mr. Paterno, a revered figure, might be fired by the board of trustees was suddenly real.

Mr. Paterno quickly issued a statement saying, in effect, that the board need not act, that he would resign at the end of the season. Neither he nor the university revealed that he had effectively agreed to do so already, in return for an expensive financial package.

The board fired him anyway, a decision that caused rioting and led to an angry and often very personal backlash against the trustees, but it agreed to honor his contract. It was then that the full board came to find out what the university was obligated to pay Mr. Paterno.

Over the ensuing months, as revelations about the role Mr. Paterno and other university officials played in the scandal mounted, a schism developed among the board members, according to several people with knowledge of the events.

There were some who argued that it was unseemly to pay the remainder of the money and other perks owed to Mr. Paterno, according to several people with knowledge of the discussions. They wondered whether, given Mr. Paterno’s failings, it might be possible to nullify the contract, or at least renegotiate it and reduce the payout, the people said.

Others worried about the hostility they would face if they tried to strip Mr. Paterno, still beloved in many quarters of the campus, of money that he was contractually owed — a prospect that grew even more worrisome after he died on Jan. 22 this year. During a conference call, one board member worried aloud that failure to make good on what was owed to the Paterno estate could lead to another “reign of terror” by Mr. Paterno’s supporters, according to a person who was on the call.With rumblings that the Paterno family was thinking of suing the board of trustees for defamation, the board dispatched its lawyer to negotiate the final payments. All the board wanted in return was a release protecting the university from such a lawsuit.

The Paternos refused. Mr. Sollers said in his statement that “the retention of their legal rights in a case of this magnitude and complexity is customary and appropriate.”

The board of trustees ultimately agreed to make good on the full package anyhow, and in April paid what was owed to the Paternos. Additional demands, like the desire by Mr. Paterno’s wife to make use of the athletic department’s hydrotherapy facilities, were met. The board did draw the line at the family’s request to use the university’s corporate jet, arguing that the contract limited that use to the coach himself. And it refused the family’s demand to retain use of the stadium box next to the university president’s, the one reserved for the head coach, offering the family the choice of two other suites on a different floor.

Still, Frank T. Guadagnino, a lawyer hired by the board in November to handle a variety of aspects of the scandal, suggested that the board felt it did not have much maneuvering room when it came to the discussions with the Paterno family.

“We were providing for payments due under the contract,” he said in an interview Friday. “So we weren’t really negotiating.”

He added that, given revelations in the independent report released this week that suggest that Mr. Paterno knew about allegations of child abuse involving Mr. Sandusky as far back as 1998, the question over whether the university could rightfully renege on paying the Paterno family what was owed under the August amendments was “complicated,” and one that “we haven’t looked at.”

At a board of trustees news conference Friday, Karen B. Peetz, the board’s chairwoman, made clear that the issue would not be revisited. “Contracts are contracts,” she said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/sp...nted=2&_r=2&hp
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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I actually know the head academic advisor to the football team at PSU, not to mention numerous players and former players. Joe ran a tight ship with academics, trust me on that one.
Have you at least accepted yet that Paterno isn't the saint that you've tried to convince us he was?
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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Have you at least accepted yet that Paterno isn't the saint that you've tried to convince us he was?
I never said he was a saint nor did I try to convince anyone he was. I've accepted that he f***** up and that he's not perfect, just like you and me. To this day he is still the only one to man up and admit any guilt. I just thought that it was fair to wait until all of the facts came out before concluding any opinion of him. I feel as though that is a reasonable way to look at it. Not to mention a lot of the things that people have taken as facts are not facts at all and that's frustrating. If he would have coached at Iowa the past 61 years you would feel the same way that a lot of PSU fans do now (not the looney ones who think he did nothing wrong, but the ones who waited for the facts to come out)
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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The NY times thing is ridiculous.

And the rich pedophile pimp theory is probably not that ridiculous to think possible. Tight rings like that have been found and busted and youth groups/charities have been a big part of many of them. Easy way to hide transactions and such. Probably not likely, but I wouldn't be shocked if he had other pedophile friends. Pretty unlikely that PSU knew about that though, that would have been a Sandusky only thing.
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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alot of the recent penalties handed out by the NCAA affect people that had nothing to do with initial crimes. take USC for instance. lane kiffin wasn't the coach when the reggie bush scandal went down. most of the players that got punished for the crime weren't even in high school when the scandal went down.

story of the NCAA. IMO, it really doesn't have anything to do with what's fair and who's involved. its just the NCAA coming down hard on the institution for making the NCAA look bad. "you fool me once, well **** you" is their motto.
I tend to agree with your response, but part of me sees a difference between the USC issue and the PSU (other than this was something unrelated to the actual games).

I still feel that this needs a different way of thinking with this problem.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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I agree this needs a way different way of thinking.

USC had Bush get money. Ohio State had players sell jerseys.

Penn State needs punished in a whole different way of thinking than either of those two. The more I think about it an the more I read the more supportive I am of the idea of shutting the whole thing down for at least a year.

Football was too important then and it should not be important at all now.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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The NY times thing is ridiculous.

And the rich pedophile pimp theory is probably not that ridiculous to think possible. Tight rings like that have been found and busted and youth groups/charities have been a big part of many of them. Easy way to hide transactions and such. Probably not likely, but I wouldn't be shocked if he had other pedophile friends. Pretty unlikely that PSU knew about that though, that would have been a Sandusky only thing.
This is slightly off-topic and highly speculative, but one of Michael Jackson's brothers has strongly implied that their father would pimp MJ out to wealthy business types when he was just a kid, during the Jackson 5 days.

You hear a lot of similar stories from a lot of sources. I could easily see Sandusky pimping out kids and laundering the money through his organization. I agree that it's a long shot; and if it happened, PSU probably didn't know anything about it. It is plausible, though.

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I agree this needs a way different way of thinking.

USC had Bush get money. Ohio State had players sell jerseys.

Penn State needs punished in a whole different way of thinking than either of those two. The more I think about it an the more I read the more supportive I am of the idea of shutting the whole thing down for at least a year.

Football was too important then and it should not be important at all now.
I think that they should be booted from the Big-10, also. I don't have anything against them being in the Big-10. As a Michigan fan, some of my favorite games have been against PSU (as well as OSU, MSU, and Wisconsin). I'd just really hate to hear and see the fan response if they have to go into Ann Arbor, Columbus, or Madison. It would be brutal.

I say shut the thing down for a year and go independent. It'd be tough for the conference this year, but the Big-10 would have no shortage of schools that they could pick up for 2013.

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Old 07-15-2012, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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This is slightly off-topic and highly speculative, but one of Michael Jackson's brothers has strongly implied that their father would pimp MJ out to wealthy business types when he was just a kid, during the Jackson 5 days.

You hear a lot of similar stories from a lot of sources. I could easily see Sandusky pimping out kids and laundering the money through his organization. I agree that it's a long shot; and if it happened, PSU probably didn't know anything about it. It is plausible, though.



I think that they should be booted from the Big-10, also. I don't have anything against them being in the Big-10. As a Michigan fan, some of my favorite games have been against PSU (as well as OSU, MSU, and Wisconsin). I'd just really hate to hear and see the fan response if they have to go into Ann Arbor, Columbus, or Madison. It would be brutal.

I say shut the thing down for a year and go independent. It'd be tough for the conference this year, but the Big-10 would have no shortage of schools that they could pick up for 2013.
Good thoughts.

This is a good summary from Penn Live. It addresses most of the crazy rumors and whatnot that this sordid affair has brought forward.
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Old 07-15-2012, 07:37 AM    (permalink
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I'd have no problem booting them from the Big Ten. Not like there wouldn't be teams lining up to replace them.

But part of that depends on how Penn State reacts. If they impose a self ban and take down the statue then I'm ok with waiting for them.

But if they, as a Board member is quoted, "Hoping they can have more time pass and people will forget about it," then no, I'm not ok with keeping them. This definitely isn't something that should just go away. But I fear, with our media, that it will. As soon as Howard gets traded ESPN will have something new to talk about.
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:00 AM    (permalink
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I'd have no problem booting them from the Big Ten. Not like there wouldn't be teams lining up to replace them.
With the revenue generated by the Big 10, teams will line up to get in. The problem is whether or not the Big 10 wants them.

If Clemson and Florida State do not go to the Big 12, the next Big 10 member might as well come from the conference (Texas?).

lol at that quote.
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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I know its not people on here but seriously, **** stupid people. The majority of my non-work wardrobe is Penn State shirts and I wore one to the mall yesterday and here is the list of things complete strangers said to me:

"Go **** yourself"
"You should tear up your diploma"
"I hope you rot in hell with Paterno"
"How can you have a kid and still support Penn State, how would you feel if it was him that got raped?" (Points at my three year old son)

I mentioned something like this last time and y'all told me to just ignore the stupid people but I can't explain how bad I wanted to beat the **** out of the person that said the last one. I guess I'll just have to buy new clothes for a while or not where Penn State stuff in public.
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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I'm actually in favor of culling 30% of our population. If they were real men, they would say that stuff to the actual people involved. They are just the same idiots who think that cashiers at walmart are in charge of pricing or policymaking.
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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I know its not people on here but seriously, **** stupid people. The majority of my non-work wardrobe is Penn State shirts and I wore one to the mall yesterday and here is the list of things complete strangers said to me:

"Go **** yourself"
"You should tear up your diploma"
"I hope you rot in hell with Paterno"
"How can you have a kid and still support Penn State, how would you feel if it was him that got raped?" (Points at my three year old son)

I mentioned something like this last time and y'all told me to just ignore the stupid people but I can't explain how bad I wanted to beat the **** out of the person that said the last one. I guess I'll just have to buy new clothes for a while or not where Penn State stuff in public.
People suck. That last one angers the hell out of me.

I went through it on a minor scale with OSU the past few years. It's not worth the needless angst man.

One of my PSU friends here won't wear her PSU clothes now, just because of random aholes.

Don't let jerks like that ruin your day.
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Old 07-15-2012, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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Excellent Wetzel article on the arrogance of Spanier.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:41 AM    (permalink
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I thought this was interesting: http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-...110211aaa.html

Three public schools show up on that list: PSU, Miami, and Rutgers. The rest are private schools or military schools. PSU and Miami have both been recently caught up in major scandals.

Rutgers doesn't seem out of place on that list (they're an elite research university, on par with Ivy League schools), but when Miami ties the US Military Academy and Penn State ties Stanford...

But I'll take Santonio's word unless evidence comes out.
Miami is a private school and actually has a strong academic reputation.
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:00 AM    (permalink
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Miami is a private school and actually has a strong academic reputation.
I knew it had a strong academic reputation, but I was thinking they were public for some reason.

Okay, so two of them are public. One is Rutgers, the other is Penn State.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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I tend to agree with your response, but part of me sees a difference between the USC issue and the PSU (other than this was something unrelated to the actual games).

I still feel that this needs a different way of thinking with this problem.
yes this is definitely a special case, far outweighing any recruitment and money violations. i too see the difference and as a friend of someone on the team, i hope they don't come down too hard on the PLAYERS.

but, like i said, "the NCAA do what the NCAA do"
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Paterno has plenty to say on a variety of topics.

--SMU: "It's unbelievable to think that kind of corruption came right from the top of the power structure. The NCAA did what it had to do" in canceling SMU's 1988 football season.
http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-..._joe-paterno/2
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