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Old 01-02-2013, 12:41 PM    (permalink
brasho
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Originally Posted by bigfreak314 View Post
Of course but what is the likelihood of that happening?

Another guy I'm hoping we can draft in the second round would be Stanford's TE Zach Ertz, he can block, has soft hands, and is a big body in the redzone. He may not be the next Tony Gonzalez but a good TE can be a young QB's best friend. It definitely would help Josh Freeman.
Yeah, and he can at least get a body on somebody in the running game,something Clark rarely did. I liked Dallas Clark, as a person, as a player, but not as Buccaneer. He still seemed to have skills, but I didnt like the fact that he rarely came back to the ball (3 INTs were at least 50% of his fault) and was a huge liability in the running game.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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If Star dropped to us that would be huge. No, he's not going to drastically change our weaknesses (pass rush and coverage), but he should be so good at our strength (run stopping) that we could afford to go a little lighter in run stoppers and get more pass rushers/defenders on the field. I just don't think he drops... still... Haloti Ngata dropped a lot further than I thought he would... where did he go? It was close to 13... 11-14 in that range... I thought he'd be top 5-7. Star SHOULD be there as well, but we'll see.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Haha brasho,


Haha This almost seems like Skip Bayless/Stephen A Smith (although they both are clowns), never seem to agree on anything.

I think the only thing we both agree on is we need a pass rusher and better d-coordinator as our top 2 needs.

.
One thing you and I can agree on is that we never agree on much of anything.

If it makes anyone feel better about he draft this season, I don't hate your favorite DE (Ansah), I just want to see more before I say anything other than "project" about him. And YOU are the one that turned me onto one of my favorite DEs (Jordan)... so you only have yourself to blame there!

BTW, you don't have to admit you're wrong about anything, even though Trent Richardson failed to rush for 1000 yards, was constantly dinged up, and Doug Martin rushed for about 500 yards more than he did. Can you imagine if we had given away our draft to the Vikings only to get LESS production from the RB position? Oh, and Keuchly has had a monster year. After taking over the MLB position from Beason, the Carolina defense started shooting up the rankings, finishing 10th in the league.. .with Keuchly leading the league in tackles. Still, I like the consolation prize of David... still don't know about Barron... I didn't hate the pick at the time, I was shocked, but at this point, he needs to play way better. I think Harrison Smith played quite a bit better, especially in coverage, than Barron did.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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One thing you and I can agree on is that we never agree on much of anything.

If it makes anyone feel better about he draft this season, I don't hate your favorite DE (Ansah), I just want to see more before I say anything other than "project" about him. And YOU are the one that turned me onto one of my favorite DEs (Jordan)... so you only have yourself to blame there!

BTW, you don't have to admit you're wrong about anything, even though Trent Richardson failed to rush for 1000 yards, was constantly dinged up, and Doug Martin rushed for about 500 yards more than he did. Can you imagine if we had given away our draft to the Vikings only to get LESS production from the RB position? Oh, and Keuchly has had a monster year. After taking over the MLB position from Beason, the Carolina defense started shooting up the rankings, finishing 10th in the league.. .with Keuchly leading the league in tackles. Still, I like the consolation prize of David... still don't know about Barron... I didn't hate the pick at the time, I was shocked, but at this point, he needs to play way better. I think Harrison Smith played quite a bit better, especially in coverage, than Barron did.

I think Barron has been hurt by the lack of CB's we've had on the field. Also he was never going to be a world class cover guy. He has help us have the number one rush D. Plus given us a force on the back end. I would like to sign Kenny PhillIps to pair with him. Black is a nice backup, 3rd S in dime.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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I think Barron has been hurt by the lack of CB's we've had on the field. Also he was never going to be a world class cover guy. He has help us have the number one rush D. Plus given us a force on the back end. I would like to sign Kenny PhillIps to pair with him. Black is a nice backup, 3rd S in dime.
I'm not sure how not having great CBs made him get scorched by Greg Olson, Jimmy Graham, Tony Gonzales and just about every TE that was thrown to between games 8-15. He either lined up inside, gave up the outside and the opposing TE would run an out and Barron would then react late and get beat or he would struggle to locate receivers and the ball in zone coverage. He played better in the last game of the season but overall, he was a major liability in coverage.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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I think many aren't giving Barron time. He's made plays and he's gotten burned. Kind of what I've expected as a rookie. His first 5 games were lights out but he was picked on by the better qbs. I think he's going to be a stud. He made Robert Lester look like a 1st rf prospect and now you can tell he's not one without Barron. I'm not worried yet. He needs to improve but a lot of it is more miscommunication
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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If Star dropped to us that would be huge. No, he's not going to drastically change our weaknesses (pass rush and coverage), but he should be so good at our strength (run stopping) that we could afford to go a little lighter in run stoppers and get more pass rushers/defenders on the field. I just don't think he drops... still... Haloti Ngata dropped a lot further than I thought he would... where did he go? It was close to 13... 11-14 in that range... I thought he'd be top 5-7. Star SHOULD be there as well, but we'll see.
Ngata wasn't regarded as a top 5-7 pick by many at all. He went pretty much where the majority of people had him pegged - early teens. Everyone was wrong obviously, but he went where he was projected to.

Star won't be there and he shouldn't.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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I know he cannot declare this year so their is a small chance in 2014: teddy Bridgewater. This guy is what an elite qb prospect looks like. Kid is going to e a stud.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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I know he cannot declare this year so their is a small chance in 2014: teddy Bridgewater. This guy is what an elite qb prospect looks like. Kid is going to e a stud.
It's kinda pathetic that our organisation is essentially coming off one of the best seasons for an individual QB in club history, and we are still talking about replacing him. Freeman earned himself another season, but if he does the same inconsistent stuff again, I have no doubt Schiano can make the tough decisions and move on.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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I know he cannot declare this year so their is a small chance in 2014: teddy Bridgewater. This guy is what an elite qb prospect looks like. Kid is going to e a stud.
No doubt. He is the best looking NFL prospect at QB playing in college right now.

He sees the field, he's accurate, he makes great decisions, good enough size, fantastic feet in the pocket, good athleticism. And even better, he is elevating the play of his team that isn't nearly as talented or athletic as Florida.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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Ngata wasn't regarded as a top 5-7 pick by many at all. He went pretty much where the majority of people had him pegged - early teens. Everyone was wrong obviously, but he went where he was projected to.

Star won't be there and he shouldn't.
I had a feeling that he was going to go higher due to 3-4 teams always looking for the next great NT or 5tech...and considering he could play in any defense, it was surprising to me, he wasn't snatched up earlier.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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If you look at the teams selecting 5-10, you can see my rationale for thinking Ngata would go so early. I kind of had Ngata pegged as another Vince Wilfork (who went later than expected, but being the NEXT Wilfork, one would think other teams would jump on that).

5 Green Bay Packers A. J Hawk LB Ohio State
I didn't dislike Hawk, just didn't think a good MLB was worthy of top 5 status.
6 San Francisco 49ers Vernon Davis TE Maryland
I know he was/is a freak, but the 49ers needed much more than a TE at the time
7 Oakland Raiders Michael Huff S Texas
Not a fan of top 10 safeties
8 Buffalo Bills Donte Whitner S Ohio State
Not a fan of top 10 safeties
9 Detroit Lions Ernie Sims LB Florida State
Thought he was going to get picked no earlier than late teens
10 Arizona Cardinals Matt Leinart QB USC
Didn't like Leinart, but Cards always need a QB. Still thought he would be better than this.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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It's kinda pathetic that our organisation is essentially coming off one of the best seasons for an individual QB in club history, and we are still talking about replacing him. Freeman earned himself another season, but if he does the same inconsistent stuff again, I have no doubt Schiano can make the tough decisions and move on.
Stats are misleading if your not winning ball games. Freeman padded his stats against bottom feeders and late in games we had no chance of winning.

The way the rules are nowadays if you get 4000 yards it's a terrible season. During the end of the year freeman saw his YPA go from 8.1 to 7.26 in 6 games. Add in the terrible performances against good teams where e needed to elevate his play and the fact he looks lost confused and not confident at times and gets easily rattled, I'd say yeah there should be concern.
P

Last edited by bucfan12 : 01-02-2013 at 10:07 PM. Reason: Meant to say if you don't get 4000 yards. Damn iPhone autocorrect.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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Stats are misleading if your not winning ball games. Freeman padded his stats against bottom feeders and late in games we had no chance of winning.

P
You just described Aaron Murrary's entire college career and yet you are pushing hard for some stupid team to draft him. I'm sure Murrary will be great in the pros, just as long as New Mexico St. is on his schedule every week.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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Stats are misleading if your not winning ball games. Freeman padded his stats against bottom feeders and late in games we had no chance of winning.

The way the rules are nowadays if you get 4000 yards it's a terrible season. During the end of the year freeman saw his YPA go from 8.1 to 7.26 in 6 games. Add in the terrible performances against good teams where e needed to elevate his play and the fact he looks lost confused and not confident at times and gets easily rattled, I'd say yeah there should be concern.
P
Obviously stats are misleading. But regardless of that fact. In the 40 odd years Tampa has existed, that is the best statistical season one of our QB's has ever had. Obviously his play down the stretch and to open the season was unacceptable. It just pains me that he is such a hot/cold QB.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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You just described Aaron Murrary's entire college career and yet you are pushing hard for some stupid team to draft him. I'm sure Murrary will be great in the pros, just as long as New Mexico St. is on his schedule every week.
LOL! I'm down for one more year for Freeman to show he can be the Bucs main man. Josh already being the Bucs all-time leader in TDs or yards(can't remember which) is kinda scary but that just shows how they haven't ever had a franchise QB in there history. They have pieces in place to be a very good offense no doubt. A good slot WR and another TE could possibly make there offense top tier if Freeman makes strides in the offseason. I haven't totally bought into Freeman but i'm still giving him one more year.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:37 AM    (permalink
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You just described Aaron Murrary's entire college career and yet you are pushing hard for some stupid team to draft him. I'm sure Murrary will be great in the pros, just as long as New Mexico St. is on his schedule every week.
I've been a fan of Murray. Has he beaten the best teams? No. I'm a fan of his skill set and poise and so are a lot of scouts. They said the same thing at the manning academy that he went toe to toe with every qb their and was the best one. He's frail but has very good arma strength.

It's hard to make an nfl comparison. Just like every other qb inthe 2013 class their is potential but question marks.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:40 AM    (permalink
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LOL! I'm down for one more year for Freeman to show he can be the Bucs main man. Josh already being the Bucs all-time leader in TDs or yards(can't remember which) is kinda scary but that just shows how they haven't ever had a franchise QB in there history. They have pieces in place to be a very good offense no doubt. A good slot WR and another TE could possibly make there offense top tier if Freeman makes strides in the offseason. I haven't totally bought into Freeman but i'm still giving him one more year.
The problem I have wit freeman is I know his work ethic is tremendous yet te things he strives to improve still haven't. Footwork you read consistantly he works on and that still is an issue.

I will never question his work ethic and determination. It's just concerning if he's actually processing the game. Hate to ring it up but Jason Campbell also had great work ethic he just wasn't very good
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:33 AM    (permalink
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The problem I have wit freeman is I know his work ethic is tremendous yet te things he strives to improve still haven't. Footwork you read consistantly he works on and that still is an issue.

I will never question his work ethic and determination. It's just concerning if he's actually processing the game. Hate to ring it up but Jason Campbell also had great work ethic he just wasn't very good
And just like Josh, Jason also had a different OC every year he played football since his JR year at Auburn. Hopefully OC Mike Sullivan sticks around so Josh can benefit from some consistency finally. Add a threat at the TE position and you got the surroundings to be successful. If he still fails then he just doesn't have it.
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Stats are for losers, so you keep looking at stats and we'll keep looking at wins.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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Shariff Floyd is a guy that was impressive. Taking on double teams and beating them and making plays and opening up for te rest of the line to make plays.

My only concern was is he's inconsistent. ?Kinda disappeared against FSU. Coulda been a down game but I need to see more than 2 games.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Caddy View Post
Obviously stats are misleading. But regardless of that fact. In the 40 odd years Tampa has existed, that is the best statistical season one of our QB's has ever had. Obviously his play down the stretch and to open the season was unacceptable. It just pains me that he is such a hot/cold QB.
I agree totally. I like Freeman as a QB for the most part. He drives me mad, however. I think we could've dealt with 3 horrible games if those games weren't back-to-back-to-back. Drew Brees had a terrible game in the lsat game against the Saints, worse than any of Freeman's games yet he's given a pass because those games don't come around very often and he's Drew Brees.

I saw a lot of good stuff from Freeman this year and the fact that he was the first Buc to ever throw for 4000, that he set the all-time TD in a season and career mark despite playing 2 seasons less than the guy he overtook (and a whopping 49 less INTs). His career rating is much higher than Eli Manning's was at the same stage of his career and he's ahead of where other great QBs were at the same stage (Rodgers, Brees, Warner, etc)

He's got a ton he needs to improve on. His footwork in the pocket is sloppy and not natural. He needs to be able to effortlessly step up and slide in the pocket WITHOUT dropping his eyes. He needs to use his gifts to get him outside of the pocket to buy time, not just to run. He needs to continue to learn the offense so he knows where everybody is at all times so he isn't staring down receivers and can make the intelligent throw and not the risky ones. Finally, he needs a couple more weapons. A good slot WR and a TE would really help him out. Dallas Clark was at least 50% responsible for three of Freeman's INTs... Underwood showed me why I'm not so good at evaluating WRs because I thought he might be pretty good but he showed me otherwise.

Freeman should get every opportunity to sink or swim next season. A full offseason in the new offense can only make him better.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Another thig: he needs to look off defenders better. Successful starting qbs know how to move defenders with their eyes. Look left then right. He stares down his main target way too often and isn't going to be good as its going to lead to lot of incompletions sacks and TOs.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
Another thig: he needs to look off defenders better. Successful starting qbs know how to move defenders with their eyes. Look left then right. He stares down his main target way too often and isn't going to be good as its going to lead to lot of incompletions sacks and TOs.
I think this will come with him knowing the offense better. At this stage of the new offense, he is still having to locate open receivers with his eyes as opposed to knowing where they are... I hope.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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DJ Swearinger is a guy I'm interested in, maybe a 4th round pick?
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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sorry double post.

Last edited by BucSquad : 01-05-2013 at 08:41 PM.
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