2013 Giants Draft Thread

[bigbluedefense]

I'm pretty busy at work lately, but when I get some time I'm gonna check out North Carolina and scout their prospects. I have a ways to go, still gotta look at Moore, study Tank more, I need to check out North Carolina.

Sylvester Williams is growing on me. People are sleeping on him. I gotta study him more.

I love Jonathan Cooper btw. I have him rated higher than Warmack for now.

[bigbluedefense]

And I know Jamie Collins is generating a lot of buzz lately too after the combine. I still have to do a full evaluation, but for now, sign me up. I like Collins as well.

Collins and Mingo are 2 guys I need to scout more. I'm a fan of both right now, but I haven't finished my evaluations.

[Big_Pete]

Originally Posted by WPG_Giant

Also, with regards to your point on the top pick, I would find it hard to see the Chiefs picking Patterson high, even in a trade-down scenario, with Bowe newly signed to a big deal and recent 1st rounder Jon Baldwin on the team.

Keep in mind how much big Andy loves to draft for the trenches...even to reach for lineman.... Danny Watkins (1st) and Trevor Laws (2nd) come to mind...

The Chiefs cut their RT; they will go with Joeckel or Fisher.

I was just trying to work out how they could go.

[Big_Pete]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

And I know Jamie Collins is generating a lot of buzz lately too after the combine. I still have to do a full evaluation, but for now, sign me up. I like Collins as well.

Collins and Mingo are 2 guys I need to scout more. I'm a fan of both right now, but I haven't finished my evaluations.

Collins is very interesting and a guy I am watching for sure

I need more info myself to be honest.

[Big_Pete]

Originally Posted by WPG_Giant

Interesting mock, Big_Pete...

- No issue with Rhodes at 19 with the way that board breaks, 4 OT's and 2 OG's gone...maybe Ogletree or Sheldon Richardson might be options there, but personally I have some misgivings about Richardson, heard rumblings about intelligence / learning issues, hence his JUCO time, need to look into it more.

- Love Arthur Brown.

- With Pugh's short arms, I imagine he'll be kicked inside at the next level...curious to hear from BBD on the Giants passing on Jordan Hill in the third, and him going with the next pick!

- Speaking of Ogletree.... quite a fall there for him. Think the DUI has that much impact?

- Only issue would be lack of DT, with Brandon Williams gone at the top of the third, might be better off grabbing Hill in the 3rd and looking for O-line help later on. Just a thought.

I am not sure on Richardson, if we go with a DT in the first, want to be sure on him; otherwise take a next tier guy later.

With Pugh I am thinking LG, he is very mobile and athletic. he needs to get stronger but that's doable (and not uncommon). I think he could be an elite LG. I think the Giants are quietly very high on this guy, just a hunch.


yeah I think Ogeltree's off-field stuff will hurt him, plus there is a alot of talent at premium positons (DT, DE, CB etc) in the same range. Plus ths LB group is very deep, pass on good LB early and you can still get a good one a little later.He won't fall far, but I don't have him in the first right now. I think his off field stuff is in the same ballpark as Janoris Jenkins as far as character risk goes; top 2nd seems right for now.

[WPG_Giant]

Need to do more research on Pugh, have seen a few places where he was described as a "Giants type", but really don't know much about him other than the disappointing arm length.

Not sure if I agree with Jenkins as an off the field comparison for Ogletree, Jenkins' issues were character based and Ogletree's a mix of character and injury.

Plus, Ogletree stands out physically for his position moreso than Jenkins did. Should be very interesting to see how his stock moves as we get closer...

Bass and Webster restructured. How will that rock everyone's mocks?

[scottyboy]

I'd still like a cb round 2 or 3. Deep class. I'm ok with Pugh but only at guard. Don't like him projecting as a tackle aT all

[Big_Pete]

Originally Posted by WPG_Giant

Need to do more research on Pugh, have seen a few places where he was described as a "Giants type", but really don't know much about him other than the disappointing arm length.

Not sure if I agree with Jenkins as an off the field comparison for Ogletree, Jenkins' issues were character based and Ogletree's a mix of character and injury.

Plus, Ogletree stands out physically for his position moreso than Jenkins did. Should be very interesting to see how his stock moves as we get closer...

Bass and Webster restructured. How will that rock everyone's mocks?

Arm length isn't everything, but I do like Pugh a lot, I'm thinking first round type of talent.

I really see Ogeltree and Jenkins in similar situations. I wouldn't downgrade Ogeltree's character concerns, they are legit. At the very least he makes extremely poor decisions off the field.

Baas and Webster wont make too much difference, Webster's on the last year if his deal and both are over 30.

As far as drafting a CB first up as in my mock, that doesn't change. its the BPA pick. We need 5/6 CBs and basically have three: Webser Amukamara and Hosely.

[Witten4HOF]

Originally Posted by Big_Pete

As far as drafting a CB first up as in my mock, that doesn't change. its the BPA pick. We need 5/6 CBs and basically have three: Webser Amukamara and Hosely.

I'm not sure about your cap space but there are plenty of FA corners after today. A number of solid vets were cut for cap purposes.

[Big_Pete]

I have heard more report that Mike Pope has his eye on an 'under the radar' TE prospect.

I am curious as to who this could be.

My guesses at the moment are either Travis Kelce (from the same college as Adrian Robinson) or Nick Kasa.

Both fit the all round TE that we prefer. If I had to pick, my money would currently be on Kasa. He seems to fit what we like and is from Rochester NY.

[bigbluedefense]

Whoever it is, I trust Pope.

Xavier Rhodes is starting to become my guy. I really like Rhodes a lot. He's a very good press man CB, has an incredible frame, extremely long arms, great speed, he's a matchup CB who can matchup well vs big strong WRs, the Dez Bryants of the world.

With him and Prince on the edges we could have a hell of a press man CB duo for years to come. Web has 1 more year with the team anyway and CBs take a year to develop, so drafting Rhodes now makes perfect sense. He steps in next year and we don't miss a beat.

He can also play the slot very well. He's an excellent run and chase CB.

With Ansah in all likelihood gone, I think Rhodes might be the best defensive talent on the board at 19.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Someone said or I read somewhere that New Mexico TE Something Reed? Lucas Reed?

[Big_Pete]

This is my current thinking

19. CB Xavier Rhodes, Florida State

49. OL Barrett Jones, Alabama

81. LB Zaviar Gooden, Missouri

113. DT Jordan Hill, Penn State

145. WR Denard Robinson, Michigan

177. LB Jake Knott, Iowa Stat

209. OG JC Tretter, Cornell

[Big_Pete]

I am thinking Gooden as a LB option

We need to upgrade speed and athleticsim at LB

Gooden has the elite physical tools, which we have drafted for in the past. I know we have Williams at WILL, but I think we could use Gooden as a SAM, giving us speed and athleticism on both sides.

Also SLB and WLB can be similar in our system.

With Williams, Paysinger and Gooden, I think we have have a very good core of fast, athletic OLB.

Other factors include having explosive offenses within our division with Washington's pistol offense and Chip Kelly's read option.

I think we look at a cheap vet in the mix at MLB, I also think we can get a decent rookie like Jake Knott in later rounds as developmental MLB prospects.

[bigbluedefense]

My current ideal mock:

1. Xavier Rhodes
2. Arthur Brown
3. Cornelius Washington
4. Jordan Hill
5. Pope's TE
6. Developmental OL pick to throw NYG a bone
7. RB

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

My current ideal mock:

1. Xavier Rhodes
2. Arthur Brown
3. Cornelius Washington
4. Jordan Hill
5. Pope's TE
6. Developmental OL pick to throw NYG a bone
7. RB

Blah! Screw your bone! Wait.. that didn't sound right! I will take that pick and draft Lattimore! That's a stock I'd invest in for the future rather then some fool who won't do anything. Plus we have enough fools I am waiting for to do something.

Mosely, Cordle, Brewer, & McCants. Sorry no more OL investments.

I do like Rhodes as well. Not sure who Brown is. You should put the positions next to the guys. Pope's TE my guess would have the last name Reed.

[scottyboy]

Browns a MLB. Damn good one, best in this draft. He won't be there for our 2nd

[BigBlueNorwegian]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Whoever it is, I trust Pope.

Xavier Rhodes is starting to become my guy. I really like Rhodes a lot. He's a very good press man CB, has an incredible frame, extremely long arms, great speed, he's a matchup CB who can matchup well vs big strong WRs, the Dez Bryants of the world.

With him and Prince on the edges we could have a hell of a press man CB duo for years to come. Web has 1 more year with the team anyway and CBs take a year to develop, so drafting Rhodes now makes perfect sense. He steps in next year and we don't miss a beat.

He can also play the slot very well. He's an excellent run and chase CB.

With Ansah in all likelihood gone, I think Rhodes might be the best defensive talent on the board at 19.

You keep forgetting we have a defensive coordinator who hates press man. We need zone corners to please the almighty Perry Fewell and his rush three cover 2 zone playbook.

[Big_Pete]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

My current ideal mock:

1. Xavier Rhodes
2. Arthur Brown
3. Cornelius Washington
4. Jordan Hill
5. Pope's TE
6. Developmental OL pick to throw NYG a bone
7. RB

We have a few simlarities I see :)

I am a fan of Brown as well.

[Rosebud]

Not having paid much attention to this draft, has Tank Carradine had anything to wrong that might cause him to fall to our second pick? Rhodes and Carradine with a lineman in round three would be sexy

[Big_Pete]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Not having paid much attention to this draft, has Tank Carradine had anything to wrong that might cause him to fall to our second pick? Rhodes and Carradine with a lineman in round three would be sexy

I like Carradine, but I don't think we go with a DE unless someone slips.

looking at our needs, we are probably solid at DE if we move Kiwanuka from LB. We have Tracy, Trattou and Ojomo whom the front office like. Naturally you can't rule out a DE, particularly if there is some great talent available but I get the feeling we look at other positions.

I do think we are looking at LB options in the 2nd/3rd/4th round range.

[bigbluedefense]

At the moment, I'm not a Tank Carradine fan. Slow off the ball, doesn't play with as much power as he should, and he looks like he's going half speed a lot of times.

His motor is hot and cold. I feel like he's a 8 sack a season guy in the NFL. Reminds me of Montgomery too much.

What really hurts him is his slow get off, and he doesn't convert speed to power very well. For a guy who didn't see many double teams I want to see more pressure on the qb. He doesn't look for the ball off the snap every time, he looks lazy off the snap, if his first move doesn't work he kind of just flaps around, he doesn't chase plays the way I want to see, but the most disappointing thing to me is I expected to see a lot more power from him and I didn't see it.

Still not done looking him over but my first impression is I'm not impressed.

Cornelius Washington is better than him.

[bigbluedefense]

When I evaluate pass rushers, I want to see them "win" at 1.5 missippi. To me those guys translate to the NFL.

Tank's pressures were around 2 to 2.5 missippi. That's not gonna get it done. Teams get the ball out quickly, you have to explode out of your stance and beat OLmen early or else you're not gonna get pressure on a consistent basis. That's why explosion is so important. Your ability to convert speed to power, or power to speed. Using your length to separate early etc.

Tank is good at setting his guys up and creating pressure later in the play. I just don't see that working in the NFL.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

At the moment, I'm not a Tank Carradine fan. Slow off the ball, doesn't play with as much power as he should, and he looks like he's going half speed a lot of times.

His motor is hot and cold. I feel like he's a 8 sack a season guy in the NFL. Reminds me of Montgomery too much.

What really hurts him is his slow get off, and he doesn't convert speed to power very well. For a guy who didn't see many double teams I want to see more pressure on the qb. He doesn't look for the ball off the snap every time, he looks lazy off the snap, if his first move doesn't work he kind of just flaps around, he doesn't chase plays the way I want to see, but the most disappointing thing to me is I expected to see a lot more power from him and I didn't see it.

Still not done looking him over but my first impression is I'm not impressed.

Cornelius Washington is better than him.

Have you studied his stance and looked into what YFS was saying about his poor form and just missing the ball? Cause I've seen him get off the line and beat everybody a lot of times to, so I buy that explanation for his poor get off. Didn't realize he had motor issues, but there was a lot of plays where JPP looked totally out of it to, if he interviewed well I'd trust our staff to turn him into a Tuck like monster who can beast against the run and pick up 10+ sacks a season between LE and DT.

Again I've seen maybe 2 and half or 3 of his games if you put together what I've seen throughout the season, so my impressions are pretty vague.

[scottyboy]

it's funny because I really respect BBD and YFS opinions but they're so far off on Tank