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Old 03-18-2013, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I'm just not seeing it. Ok for arguments sake, let's say it is a coachable issue.

I still don't like how he converts speed to power. And I don't like his motor. Or how he can't really get under your pads and bullrush you. He's kind of soft.

Again, I saw 2 games so I need to do more hw. But I'm not impressed based off my first impression. There's a lack of toughness and motor that I don't like. He's a finesse rusher.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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We keep looking at DE's, CB's, OT/OG's but I kind of have this sneaking suspicion we might address safety in the first or second round. It wouldn't shock me at all. When you think about it, it's one of our biggest needs, if not our biggest. Way too many untested players at the position.

Rolle is likely done after this year and also has CB duties which takes him out of the safety mix a bit. Terrell Thomas is almost completely untested and unreliable to come back there. Hill and Brown at both meh and unproven as starters at best. Mundy is meh and a one-year stop gap at best.

I wouldn't be shocked if we went Vaccaro or someone else in the second maybe. Perhaps Eric Reid if he drops far enough?

I need to look at some of the safeties of this class. I'm not very familiar with any outside of Reid and Vaccaro.

Would be kind of funny. Lost one Kenny, replace with another Kenny.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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I don't see S as a realistic option early unless a value player falls to our spot. I think the FO likes what they have with the 5 guys on the team now.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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I hope they aren't happy with it. It's not that great a situation. Rolle is mediocre as a pure safety, Will Hill unknown/meh, Brown is unknown/meh, Mundy is a stop gap/meh.

Safety should be a top priority IMO.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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The team is very high on Hill. You keep saying meh but it's clear the FO/coaching staff disagrees.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I agree with Forenci. I can absolutely see us taking a safety early this year maybe even the 1st round. It's a major need and we always draft ahead.

It's apparently a good safety class as well. I won't rule it out.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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The team is very high on Hill. You keep saying meh but it's clear the FO/coaching staff disagrees.
Hill isn't the guy I'm thinking of replacing. It's Rolle/Brown. Both might not be on the team after this year.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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The team is very high on Hill. You keep saying meh but it's clear the FO/coaching staff disagrees.
The staff is high on Hill, who just turned 23. If he has a great camp, I can see him starting over Brown. If in year 2 Brown plays even better, while making equal or more momentum changing plays, then he would get the nod. This camp should be fun at the safety spot.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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The team is very high on Hill. You keep saying meh but it's clear the FO/coaching staff disagrees.
I don't like Hill. He looks great in pads and practice but is a head case and has literally done nothing in the league. I'm not convinced of him. If we're banking on him to be really productive I think that's a HUGE mistake.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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I don't like Hill. He looks great in pads and practice but is a head case and has literally done nothing in the league. I'm not convinced of him. If we're banking on him to be really productive I think that's a HUGE mistake.
He's really got his stuff together now it seems. Not even close to one problem with him last year.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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He's really got his stuff together now it seems. Not even close to one problem with him last year.
We shall see. Stuff like that very rarely just goes away. I honestly just don't think he's a very good player. That's my main beef with him.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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We shall see. Stuff like that very rarely just goes away. I honestly just don't think he's a very good player. That's my main beef with him.
He was overrated in college and I don't really have high expectations for him. It just seems like the coaching staff is very high on his potential.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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I like Hill as a box safety. The problem now is with Kenny gone, that thrusts Rolle into the FS role, and he's not very good at that. Rolle is a good box safety who can blitz, tackle, play TEs in man, and play nickel CB. He's pretty terrible at recognizing route combinations as an off safety in cover 2 shells or as a the single high.

Basically, Rolle is a CB. Let's call a spade a spade. When CBs transition to Safety, the hardest part for them is playing off the ball and dissecting route combinations quickly and picking up the proper man. Rolle struggles with this.

So for the short term, we take a big hit with the loss of Kenny, and for the long term, with Rolle probably getting cut after this year, we have no FS behind him with any real potential (in my eyes) to play the FS position.

So I think FS is absolutely a major need.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Ok done with my 3rd Tank game. Better tape this time. He had motor all game, I saw him bullrush well, he converted his speed to power on occasion.

But I still see some red flags. He gets washed out of the run game easily, he doesn't have a strong base/core, and he's more of a length speed arm over rusher than a power rusher.

I'm starting to think he's not a LE. You know who he is? He kind of reminds me of Adrian Tracy. I **** you not. Just longer.

I don't know guys. People keep telling me he's a gamer but my eyes tell me he isn't that great. I'm torn on him. I want to believe my eyes.

I'm not saying he's terrible, but I don't know yet what to make of him. He's an enigma to me. Some plays you say hey that's pretty good then some plays youre like thats awful.

Especially in the run game.

I've been pretty busy at work so I'm not sure if I'll ever get to fully evaluate this guy but right now I'm torn.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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this draft is too deep at safety to take one round one
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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this draft is too deep at safety to take one round one
I have to look into some of the other safeties. I'm just not sure. I could easily see us grab Vaccaro if he's at our pick and some other guys we like are gone.

It's just something I can see Reese doing. We all go crazy and key in on a few guys and he does something different and unexpected. Not to say that's bad at all. It's good.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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Not to compare them directly, but that description fits JPP and Tuck when we drafted them to. To me it's the interviews that are the big deal with Tank, if the team feels good about his motor and work rate, they'll be able to mold the talent into a regular force.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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JPP always had an incredible motor and work ethic though. To me, that's what makes him so special. Lots of guys have his athletic ability (well not lots, but quite a few) it's the fact he works so hard and is relentless that makes him so special in combination with those athletic gifts. Imagine how good Julius Peppers would be with JPP's work ethic and motor.

JPP had questions with consistency in college, but that's not unheard of because of how raw he was to football.
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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Yeah enough with the JPP comparisons. JPP isn't in every draft, and the only guy who somewhat resembles him is Ansah, and he's not even JPP.

Tank isn't JPP, nobody in this draft is. And I know what you guys mean in terms of the same "flaws" as JPP, not JPP himself, but the point remains. JPP was special bc you saw the natural athleticism that was unreal, the unreal flexibility, and he had a motor that didn't quit and was raw.

Tank is none of those. Yeah he's long, but he's not fast like JPP, isn't strong like JPP, isn't as flexible, and doesn't have his motor. Plus has a lot more experience. So he's really nothing like JPP at all.

You're not gonna find a JPP in every draft just like you won't find a Revis or a Patrick Willis etc. You gotta evaluate these guys for what they are.

The most important thing when it comes to evaluating players is you can't go into it with any prejudice. Don't catch yourself wanting to like a guy. Bc your assessment is shot the second you do that.

Not saying Tank won't be a good player, but I just don't see (as of right now) the buzz about him being a stud DE. I just don't see it. Can he be a good one? Maybe, I need to evaluate him more.

But there's no JPP this year, maaaybe Ansah. Jordan, Mingo, they're more of the Von Miller types.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I've never been a Tank fan. I just don't like his motor. To me, one thing a D-Linemen MUST have is motor. Motor motor motor. Even guys who aren't great athletes can be good defensive linemen if they have the motor. Combine that with athleticism and you end up with something truly special like JPP.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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I actually think the strength, length and flexibility match up pretty well, tank doesn't have JPP's burst and athleticism, but he's longer. If he doesn't have the motor then we shouldn't pick him, but I'm not in the interviews and watching all of the tape to know if he has the motor or not.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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I actually think the strength, length and flexibility match up pretty well, tank doesn't have JPP's burst and athleticism, but he's longer. If he doesn't have the motor then we shouldn't pick him, but I'm not in the interviews and watching all of the tape to know if he has the motor or not.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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I actually think the strength, length and flexibility match up pretty well, tank doesn't have JPP's burst and athleticism, but he's longer. If he doesn't have the motor then we shouldn't pick him, but I'm not in the interviews and watching all of the tape to know if he has the motor or not.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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I'm having trouble pegging what they're going to do.

I think Warmack or Cooper might be there.

I also think if Eifert is there, he'll get heavy consideration.

I really doubt they go safety.

Then there's DE. Carradine... I could see Werner to play the DAVE TOLLEFSON ROLE hehe.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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No chance we take Eifert I can tell you that much. Reese has high hopes for AR, we just signed Myers and Pope apparently has his eye on a mid-round TE. You can knock that one off your list. As for Warmack/Cooper, I would love to have Warmack, but I'm not that big a fan of Cooper. I could definitely see us going safety if a guy like Vaccaro falls to us, it would be a classic Reese pick.

It is so hard to guess who we take because of how well Reese drafts. He does not limit himself by position, Reese will make his board with every player on it and take the best remaining guy on that list that doesn't play QB, RB, WR or TE. With us often red-shirting our rookies this always seems to work in our favor.
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