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Old 03-18-2014, 09:04 AM    (permalink
Damix
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I think every year we're all in favor of moving back. But yes I agree, it'd be awesome to pick up another 2nd this year and pick some sort of combination of TE,OL,LB in the first two rounds. BPA the rest of the draft.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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I think every year we're all in favor of moving back. But yes I agree, it'd be awesome to pick up another 2nd this year and pick some sort of combination of TE,OL,LB in the first two rounds. BPA the rest of the draft.
There just isn't a guy I'd bang the table for at 12 anymore. Yes, I know that's an awful cliche, but you get the point.

We can get some great interior OLmen at say 19, which would be just as good as taking a guy like Lewan at 12. The extra 2nd can be used on a Center. It just gives us better options than taking a TE at 12.

I just don't care enough about TE to take it at 12. Yuck! Unless he's the next Jimmy Graham, he's not worth it.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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No TE at 12 please which of course means we go TE at 12.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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The thing I'm hoping for is, we're making it so obvious that we want Ebron at 12 that maybe someone else who wants him will move up ahead of us to take him?

Wouldn't be the first time it happened. In fact, the past 2 drafts it's happened. Doug Martin and Eric Reid. Somehow it leaked out and we lost both of them.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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Don't get me wrong, Ebron is a great player, but eeeeeeeeeh. I just don't care for TEs that much. Get me a big body dude who can run a 4.7 in the middle of the draft and that's good enough for me.

Especially since Ebron can't block for **** anyway. I rather get Mike Evans.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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why do you think DT isn't on the table, BBD?

Donald is the perfect fit for what we're missing. We need a DT who can rush the passer and he fits that mold
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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why do you think DT isn't on the table, BBD?

Donald is the perfect fit for what we're missing. We need a DT who can rush the passer and he fits that mold
I'm cautious about Donald. All of his great plays were when they slid protection away from him. Every time I saw him get doubled, or if they ran right at him he got dominated.

That's concerning for me. However, I do feel he's a great complimentary DT to a DL who can slide protection to the edges, like we can with a healthy JPP.

My question is, do you take a guy who's a complimentary DLmen at 12? Usually if you do, it's a pass rushing specialist off the edge, not a DT who may not be a 3 down DT.

Also, he's not a system fit in theory. And the Giants don't value DTs all that much. So I question if he's realistically on the table at 12 for us.
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Old 03-18-2014, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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why do you think DT isn't on the table, BBD?

Donald is the perfect fit for what we're missing. We need a DT who can rush the passer and he fits that mold
We need a DT that can anchor the middle.


Thinking about it (and I like Donald a lot), I am not sure he is a three down player in our scheme. I am not a fan of Jernigan, I think Donald is much better and a similar style of player.

I think a better fit is Louis Nix who I think is a Vince Wilfork kind of talent and in other years would be rated much more highly.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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There just isn't a guy I'd bang the table for at 12 anymore. Yes, I know that's an awful cliche, but you get the point.

We can get some great interior OLmen at say 19, which would be just as good as taking a guy like Lewan at 12. The extra 2nd can be used on a Center. It just gives us better options than taking a TE at 12.

I just don't care enough about TE to take it at 12. Yuck! Unless he's the next Jimmy Graham, he's not worth it.
I would take on of the top three tackles if they were available
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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I can't see investing 12 in a tackle with how much money Beatty is making and will make for the next two years at least.

I don't think they can stomach 9+ mil on the bench. Ideally you want Beatty to bounce back - so if it works out, your 12th pick sits? Doesn't work.

Unless they bench Snee, put Pugh at RG, and put Beatty/12 at RT. That works, but again, Snee's 6M on the bench? That's tough to swallow.

That's the thing. They can draft an OL - but that OL won't start until 2015. So can you use 12 on a 6th man? Or are you OK with sitting Beatty or Snee's huge salaries?
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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I'm fine with letting Beatty rot on the bench honestly. I've always disliked him.

If you think about it, why should I care? It's not my money rotting on the bench. They'll never do it bc businesses simply don't operate this way, but the right move (from the outside looking in) is to just admit you made a mistake with Beatty and let his salary ride the bench.

At the end of the day you can justify the decision by reminding the owner that it's better to admit a 9 million dollar mistake then to let that 9 million dollar mistake get our 20 mill dollar qb hurt.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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For some reason most sport franchises don't believe in the idea of a sunk cost.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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It's odd though, from what I read on twitter, the Giants are terrified of the idea of Beatty being their LT next year without a backup plan in place in case he fails.

Which makes me seriously question why they extended him. Reese needs to answer to that. The man sucked major dick his entire career and then had 1 great season in his contract year, why did we structure his contract in a way that we're stuck with him for so long?

That's a mistake Reese made, and he has to answer for it. Yes, I don't think anyone expected Beatty to suck this hard again, but it's inexcusable to put all your eggs in his basket the way we did.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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It's very tricky. I can't think of a single instance in the NFL where a young guy with a huge contract was simply benched before the season. I'm not saying it's never happened I just can't think of one.

You're right about it being better to admit to the mistake than letting it screw you by not. But, two things:

1) He's not as bad a player as he showed last year - there is bounce back potential and there's no where to go but up.

2) There's no 2 because I forgot it.

So yeah.

You could convince me to stay true and go BPA at OT if you have Lewan/Martin there.

Eh, this is all moot. Lewan's gonna be gone and Martin's not a LT.

Carry on.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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Well, the only thing I can think of is, try to alleviate his potential awfulness by strengthening the rest of the OL to a point where we can leave guys in to help Beatty.

So we have our LG of the future in Schwartz. We have our RT of the future in Pugh. So that leaves C and RG.

And bc no G is worth the 12th pick, I'm in favor of moving back if possible. That way we can move back to say, 18 or 19, and collect an extra 2nd, and either take a guard like XFS in the 1st and a Center with 1 of the 2 2nd rounders, or ditch OL altogether in round 1 and go G and C in round 2.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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3/5 are in question. LT, C and RG
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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I did agree with old style thinking. If the player can contribute and warrants the pick then I don't give a crap what position he plays.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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A few things with the Tackle situations.
1. When are the Giants ever in a position to get a Franchise LT? Luckly the talent pool in the first pushed the top LT down. When you have a chance to lock on up, you do it.
2. Beatty has been pretty mediocre.
3. Snee is a year removed from a hip injury that saw him play just three games.
4. Competition for that o-line is a good thing and could push Beatty.
5. A better line improves Eli and the run game. So why not pay money to insure depth by putting some cap space on the bench.


I think these few things have to factor in their decision making right?
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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A few things with the Tackle situations.
1. When are the Giants ever in a position to get a Franchise LT? Luckly the talent pool in the first pushed the top LT down. When you have a chance to lock on up, you do it.
2. Beatty has been pretty mediocre.
3. Snee is a year removed from a hip injury that saw him play just three games.
4. Competition for that o-line is a good thing and could push Beatty.
5. A better line improves Eli and the run game. So why not pay money to insure depth by putting some cap space on the bench.


I think these few things have to factor in their decision making right?
All fair points and yes, they all do factor in. This is why Pugh's versatility is desirable for us. While ideally you want to keep him in 1 spot and let him grow, bc of the uncertainty of other players and how the board shapes up, we have the luxury of moving him around to get the best 5 OLmen on the field at once if need be.

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3/5 are in question. LT, C and RG
Yes, but we were discussing the situation with the assumption that LT is Beatty's position bc of finances. But yes, we need all 3 positions upgraded.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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Well, the only thing I can think of is, try to alleviate his potential awfulness by strengthening the rest of the OL to a point where we can leave guys in to help Beatty.

So we have our LG of the future in Schwartz. We have our RT of the future in Pugh. So that leaves C and RG.

And bc no G is worth the 12th pick, I'm in favor of moving back if possible. That way we can move back to say, 18 or 19, and collect an extra 2nd, and either take a guard like XFS in the 1st and a Center with 1 of the 2 2nd rounders, or ditch OL altogether in round 1 and go G and C in round 2.
So trade down swap with the Bears and they take Donald or Nix. and we take Martin? Or wait till the second to take Yankley or Su' A-filo?
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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So trade down swap with the Bears and they take Donald or Nix. and we take Martin? Or wait till the second to take Yankley or Su' A-filo?
I haven't really thought of trade partner scenarios honestly. But trading with Chicago makes sense in this situation.

Lewan may be there at 12. I have concerns about him. First and foremost do the Giants consider him with his character concerns? The Giants typically stay away from character concern players in round 1. Then I also have questions about his play. I haven't finished my study of him so I'll refrain from breaking him down until I do so.
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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Lewan would be a good pick but we have options at that spot to get a very good prospect.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:37 PM    (permalink
Mike Maycock
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Beatty has potential to bounce back. I think it's right to at least give him a chance but getting a back up swing tackle is important. I don't think Lewan will be there when we pick. Draft rules: LT, CB, QB always get drafted high come draft day.

Good news for us all the draft experts are saying you can get a quality starting tackle in the first 2 maybe 3 rounds. The talent pool is that deep there. Also, solid vets like Bryant McKinnie and Eric Winston are still available.

It's looking like trading back is the smartest thing we can do. Getting an extra 2nd would be huge for us.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:53 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Beatty has potential to bounce back. I think it's right to at least give him a chance but getting a back up swing tackle is important. I don't think Lewan will be there when we pick. Draft rules: LT, CB, QB always get drafted high come draft day.

Good news for us all the draft experts are saying you can get a quality starting tackle in the first 2 maybe 3 rounds. The talent pool is that deep there. Also, solid vets like Bryant McKinnie and Eric Winston are still available.

It's looking like trading back is the smartest thing we can do. Getting an extra 2nd would be huge for us.
Absolutely. At this point I think the extra 2nd would do wonders for us. Having a draft that looks like:

1. XFS
2. Marcus Martin
2. Best available WR

Would be a great first 3 picks. Heck, any OL/WR/TE combo with the first 3 picks would be excellent. And with how deep OL is, it just makes too much sense to move back and get an extra pick in the first 64 picks and use it to take another OLmen.
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Old 03-19-2014, 03:58 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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I think trading back is the best option and given the top level of talent, I can see a team wanting to trade up to 12.

Just looking at how our roster is shaping up, the big needs are at TE, DE and DT.

WE haven't traditionally drafted TEs early, but we have at DT and DE.

I get the idea that we have a definate plan with the draft.
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