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View Poll Results: Who would you build around?
Darrelle Revis 27 31.40%
Haloti Ngata 21 24.42%
Jason Pierre-Paul 11 12.79%
Patrick Willis 15 17.44%
DeMarcus Ware 5 5.81%
Clay Matthews 0 0%
Terrell Suggs 0 0%
Ndamukong Suh 4 4.65%
Mario Williams 0 0%
Other 3 3.49%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-19-2012, 12:26 AM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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Originally Posted by fenikz View Post
is this one of those times when someone uses the word literally entirely wrong?
That literally happened. How is Willis the most athletic player again? Because no he ******* isn't.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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is this one of those times when someone uses the word literally entirely wrong?
Probably, since "literally the most athletic" would infer that him being more athletic than anyone else in the NFL is factual, and it's just an opinion.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:31 AM    (permalink
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Why is Mario Williams on this list?
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:35 AM    (permalink
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Because once upon a time he was an elite defensive player. And was showing signs of it again last year before his season ending injury.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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I go with JJ Watt.

Non Lions
Offense - RG 3
Offense non QB - Joe Thomas
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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Give me Ngata. He can be and elite player in both the 3-4 and the 4-3 at multiple spots. He just gives you great flexibility with what you want to build.

I can completely understand the Revis argument. He is far and away the best CB in the league.

I love Ware but JPP is 7 years younger. I also love Willis but MLB/ILB just isn't that valuable compared to a elite CB/DE/DT. You can get by with a crappier LB.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:29 AM    (permalink
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I voted Ngata because he is the best defender in the league.

But question. Clay is in tier one, but Jared Allen, the man with 22 sacks last year with no secondary, is in tier three? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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I voted Ngata because he is the best defender in the league.

But question. Clay is in tier one, but Jared Allen, the man with 22 sacks last year with no secondary, is in tier three? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Age is clearly the factor here.

How many sack does he have this year? What about Clay? THATS WHAT I THOUGHT!
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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Give me Ngata. He can be and elite player in both the 3-4 and the 4-3 at multiple spots. He just gives you great flexibility with what you want to build.

I can completely understand the Revis argument. He is far and away the best CB in the league.

I love Ware but JPP is 7 years younger. I also love Willis but MLB/ILB just isn't that valuable compared to a elite CB/DE/DT. You can get by with a crappier LB.
I dunno...I get what youre saying about plenty of good defenses get away with having whoever at MLB. The Giants would be a perfect example.

But when you look at the great MLBs this league has seen, guys like Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher. Those guys defenses are among the best in the league every year. And its because a GREAT MLB can make that kind of difference. He is the QB of the defense, the leader on the field, he is the guy who never leaves the field and does everything. And Willis is ABSOLUTELY in the class of guys like Ray Lewis and the all-time great LBs. The 49ers defense has been tough as hell since his rookie year and its because of the impact he makes.

I know it's easy to find a player to plug in at MLB, but if I can have one great player to build around, its gotta be Pat Willis. The 49ers built around him and their defense is the best there is. I dont think theres any way Bowman, Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks end up this good without the mentoring of Willis, and Id throw Dashon Goldson in there too. Pass-rushers dont tend to be as much of leaders. A guy like DeMarcus Ware has always been a great player, but has never been a guy who elevates the level of play of all the other guys around him. And its not his fault, his job is so much more simple, go get the QB. MLBs are involved in every aspect of the defense.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:50 AM    (permalink
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Age is clearly the factor here.

How many sack does he have this year? What about Clay? THATS WHAT I THOUGHT!
He is the same age as Ware who is in that group. And with 22 sacks last year I think that he is not long in the tooth whatsoever...
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:48 AM    (permalink
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I dunno...I get what youre saying about plenty of good defenses get away with having whoever at MLB. The Giants would be a perfect example.

But when you look at the great MLBs this league has seen, guys like Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher. Those guys defenses are among the best in the league every year. And its because a GREAT MLB can make that kind of difference. He is the QB of the defense, the leader on the field, he is the guy who never leaves the field and does everything. And Willis is ABSOLUTELY in the class of guys like Ray Lewis and the all-time great LBs. The 49ers defense has been tough as hell since his rookie year and its because of the impact he makes.

I know it's easy to find a player to plug in at MLB, but if I can have one great player to build around, its gotta be Pat Willis. The 49ers built around him and their defense is the best there is. I dont think theres any way Bowman, Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks end up this good without the mentoring of Willis, and Id throw Dashon Goldson in there too. Pass-rushers dont tend to be as much of leaders. A guy like DeMarcus Ware has always been a great player, but has never been a guy who elevates the level of play of all the other guys around him. And its not his fault, his job is so much more simple, go get the QB. MLBs are involved in every aspect of the defense.
I'm not buying this. 49ers had two defensive minded HC's in Nolan and Singletary and they were a very mediocre defense with Willis at MLB. Did they go from being just an average defense to a great defense in a span of a year because of Willis? Where was Willis's great elevating leadership when they were a mediocre unit? They were only a great unit last year after they brought in a new staff with a new DC along with Aldon Smith, Carlos Rogers and Donte Whitner, Chris Culliver as well, not to mention Navarro Bowman getting in the starting lineup. Didn't hurt that Justin Smith played the best football of career in 2011. I fail to see how Willis is the one responsible for all that.
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:25 AM    (permalink
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Darelle Revis. No hesitation.

Revis is the most irreplaceable defender in the NFL. Thereís no one that can do what he does. A true shutdown corner in a passing league where all of the calls and rules are slanted to favor the receiver? Where do I sign up? I have a much better shot at finding all of that other stuff. Thereís a lot of great pass-rushers out there. Thereís a lot of intelligent linebackers out there. But thereís just one Darelle Revis.

In general, the front seven helps the back four more, I agree. Revis is the glaring exception to the rule though. Heís just as much of a weapon as Haloti Ngata or Jason Pierre-Paul. Heís much more valuable than Patrick Willis. Offensive coordinators can slide and tinker with their protections to account for a monster pass-rusher and force someone else to beat them. Offensive coordinators canít stop Revis from lining up opposite their best receiver and erasing him from the game. Sure, the receiver might align at flanker more and get some mesh concepts or pick routes to ease separation, but Revis has proven those things donít affect him much. His athleticism, footwork, hand use, recognition, and ball skills keep him in great positions.

Because of his coverage skills, Revis changes the complexion of a defense and allows the front seven to be even more flexible. Defensive coordinators feel comfortable with Revis winning his one-on-one matchup on a consistent basis, so more resources can be dedicated to other areas of their attack. That might mean additional personnel to blitz the quarterback or the bonus of being able to bracket the second option. He opens a lot of luxuries up. And he doesnít even sacrifice perimeter stoutness either. Heíll stick his nose in there and support the run defense.

If Ed Reed wasnít in the twilight of his career, he would make another excellent choice. As far as Iím concerned, heís the greatest of all-time. He was a lethal weapon at a position that didnít ask for it. He did more than just erase mistakes in front of him. He went toe-to-toe with some of the greatest football minds of our generation and was never outmatched. Given where the league is gravitating, and the lack of difference-making safeties, Reed would be an invaluable asset to have.
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:44 AM    (permalink
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^^ What he said. Went with Revis as well. In my mind he's the best defensive player in the NFL.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Normally I would say Ngata, but Watt is really making that difficult. This is only his second year and he's already a DOMINANT force. Its tough because my gut says pass-rusher first in a league dominated by QB play but I always believe you have to build from the inside-out. Ima go with Watt for now. He's the youngest among Justin Smith and Ngata and has yet to even reach his full potential.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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If it were just for next season I pick Haloti Ngata followed by Darelle Revis...but building an expansion team from scratch I pick JPP by a wide margin. He's still got a decade of dominance ahead of him that he's still just starting to scratch.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Revis without hesitation. And Patrick Willis? Seriously?
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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For me, I'd go with Revis for reasons stated above about the difference between him and the next guy.

After that, I would want to take a DT cause it all starts up front, probably BJ Raji since Ngata probably wouldn't be there anymore.

Following that pick, I'd go ahead and take Bowman and Sean Lee as they are both young, VERY good MLB and would probably still be around.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Revis and then JPP for me.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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I went with Willis because at the end of the day I think your MLB sets the tone for your D. Great LBs like Willis bring leadership, intensity and have an impact in every area of the game. Revis is great and all, but there's only so much a CB can do to impact a football game. He locks down 1 receiver, cool, but there are 3 or 4 other options the QB can target and most good teams nowadays have more than 1 receiver that can burn you. I'd rather take the sideline to sideline playmaker who can matchup with the new age TEs in coverage as well as being a great blitzing option. I'd also want my D to be physical and intimidating, and Willis brings more of that to the table than Revis.

Matter of fact, CB would be a ways down on my list of importance for fielding a great defense. I'd build inside out; MLB, DT and S before I started looking at CBs.

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Old 09-19-2012, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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You can hide a crappy secondary with a good front 7. As long as they don't get burnt, you got a pretty good secondary.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:17 PM    (permalink
WCH
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I sort of feel like CB has been devalued over the past decade, because even an elite shutdown corner like Revis can't "take away half the field" anymore.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
Haloti Ngata. Starts up front.
This. Hands down no argument from me here.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docta View Post
You can hide a crappy secondary with a good front 7. As long as they don't get burnt, you got a pretty good secondary.
I agree with this so much. The only player in the 49ers secondary I think he truly a Pro Bowl caliber player right now is Goldson. But pretty much everybody in the front seven is an thus the secondary looks great.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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I went with Ngata with Revis close behind. You should have put Peppers on the list instead of Mario Williams. Wilfork deserves a little love too.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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I was leaning towards Revis on this one until the 49ers comments swayed me. It has to be Ngata; he can severely effect the run AND the pass. Giants and the guys they have up front also helped in this one. Aside from Phillips who I really like, I don't think anyone would call them a good secondary.
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