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Old 09-28-2012, 10:08 AM    (permalink
scottyboy
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Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
Ole Can't Cover Brown. I was so giddy the day he left.
Wait, remember when he signed with the Lions and then he was talking **** on the Giants organization? Dude was ridiculous
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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Wait, remember when he signed with the Lions and then he was talking **** on the Giants organization? Dude was ridiculous
Nah, the instant he was no longer our problem I stopped thinking about him. He sort of just disappeared off of the face of the earth as far as I was concerned.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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I'm not saying he's right. I'm surprised he brought him in in the first place. But it shouldn't surprise anybody that a DC is talking up a depth player when the starter is hurt. What's he going to say? "Well we all know Ball sucks, but we have no better options." Of course not.
Anytime situations like this come up, I prefer to hear the "next guy up" approach.

Don't talk up your 4th CB like he's Darrell Revis, you just sound like a moron to anyone who has ever seen the guy play. Say something like:

"If Joseph is out, Ball will step in. We're not going to change our defense for that. Blah blah."

There's no need to be like "he's so great!" in so many words.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Spot View Post
You know, you can't just lose a Defensive Player of the Year and not feel any effect whatsoever.

I really don't understand these Baltimore fans who kept saying that the loss of Suggs was going to be highly mitigable.

I think that the loss will truly show up in the playoffs. I don't see the Ravens as anything more than a one-and-done team this year.
I don't think I worded that properly. Losing Suggs does hurt a lot (even more so since Kruger and McPhee aren't getting to the QB like they did last season) and we all knew that he was a huge part of the pass-rush but Pees has been about as good as he was in New England towards the end - which is obviously terrible. This is a scheme league and the Ravens don't have a good one right now. I don't think they'll do much in the playoffs either (assuming they make it) if the pass-rush doesn't improve quite a bit.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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If we include all DB's then CC Brown certainly has to be #1 on that list. I still can't believe a smart GM like Reese even had him on our roster for a year. I've never seen anyone so bad and I saw Freaky Frank play for years.


Yall must not remember Jason David during his stint with the Saints.
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fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Yall must not remember Jason David during his stint with the Saints.
There is also a distinct lack of Darius Butler in this bad DB conversation.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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It wad weird watching yesterday and not having the refer stick out like a sore thumb. It also just seemed a lot smoother. God I don't miss those ******* clowns one bit.
Was watching the Huskies and Stanford at CTL field last night and was thinking we might need those stiffs at the end of the game. It turned out allright thanks to a terrible Stanford QB. (haven't said that much over the decades)
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Hate is a poor choice of words. I tend to think and agree with:



It's entirely possible that a house cleaning could be coming to Cleveland this offseason. New ownership means Holmgren could be out as CEO, which could lead to a gutting of everyone from the GM downward.

If that is the case, a new coaching staff could very easily decide that a 29 year old 2nd year QB coming off of a below average rookie season (relative to the rookie seasons other QBs have been putting up lately) just isn't worth the continued development.

That means another wasted high draft pick for Cleveland and the start of yet another QB development cycle with someone else.
You must not be reading the same comments here as I have been then. Weeden is getting grilled by a lot of people as if he was expected to be Peyton Manning coming into the NFL, which he wasn't. He's a rookie on a bad team with little help from his supporting cast. Yes he makes mistakes, but that is to be expected. He doesn't have the experience at this level yet. Folks just don't see that, or they do and are choosing to ignore it.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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"Of Alex Smith’s 92 pass attempts, only four have traveled 20 yards or more downfield to a wide receiver."
Meh. Doesn't really matter. If he's efficient I don't see what the problem is. Maybe he's not getting on Sports Center and putting up fantasy football numbers, but well, who cares? If that gets the 49ers a Super Bowl victory, who cares? I can think of a lot of quarterbacks that did constantly throw the football down the field and just weren't very good. Andrew Walter or Anthony Wright for instance.

If Smith averages over 200 yards per game and at least above 7.0/attempt it should be fine.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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You must not be reading the same comments here as I have been then. Weeden is getting grilled by a lot of people as if he was expected to be Peyton Manning coming into the NFL, which he wasn't. He's a rookie on a bad team with little help from his supporting cast. Yes he makes mistakes, but that is to be expected. He doesn't have the experience at this level yet. Folks just don't see that, or they do and are choosing to ignore it.
Bull.

I think the reason most people were driven batty with the Weeden hype was because of how "mature" and "polished" his supporters claimed him to be pre-draft, and why it was acceptable for him to go in the first round and why his age didn't matter long term.

It was all trash. Now those some people try to preach patience because he's inexperienced and on a bad team. They can't have it both ways.

As a 28 year old rookie, he needed to hit the ground running. No excuses. He did not and if it takes him the 3-4 years to develop into a successful NFL passer that it takes most QBs (if he's even given that time to develop) he'll already be to the point where many NFL players bodies start giving out on them. (Don't forget, he had to quit his baseball career because he basically threw out his arm.)

If there is major upheaval on the Cleveland staff, I wouldn't be shocked in the least if their next coach/GM is looking at the available QB prospects with their inevitable high first round pick he'll have.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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I don't think the Browns should give up on Weeden yet. He's been mediocre for a rookie quarterback and had that awful game in week one, but Cleveland has been competitive in all four games (lost by more than a touchdown only once) and he's not getting any favors from his receivers. His completion percentage stands at 53.9% right now, but without drops he'd be at 64.1%. Receivers dropped seven passes last night, including that would-be touchdown pass to Greg Little, and regardless Weeden has thrown for over 300 yards in both divisional matchups. Quarterbacks can't catch the passes too; the best Weeden can do is hit his guys in the hands and hope they make a play.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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They should just run more and throw less.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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I don't think the Browns should give up on Weeden yet. He's been mediocre for a rookie quarterback and had that awful game in week one, but Cleveland has been competitive in all four games (lost by more than a touchdown only once) and he's not getting any favors from his receivers. His completion percentage stands at 53.9% right now, but without drops he'd be at 64.1%. Receivers dropped seven passes last night, including that would-be touchdown pass to Greg Little, and regardless Weeden has thrown for over 300 yards in both divisional matchups. Quarterbacks can't catch the passes too; the best Weeden can do is hit his guys in the hands and hope they make a play.
If you mean they shouldn't bench him, I agree. If you mean they shouldn't draft another first round QB (if given a decent one), then I disagree. It will happen. No one wants a 30 year old as an incoming head coach, unless you bring him in yourself. The only way Weeden stays the starter in Cleveland is if he gets them to a place where the owner doesn't clean house.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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I don't think the Browns should give up on Weeden yet. He's been mediocre for a rookie quarterback and had that awful game in week one, but Cleveland has been competitive in all four games (lost by more than a touchdown only once) and he's not getting any favors from his receivers. His completion percentage stands at 53.9% right now, but without drops he'd be at 64.1%. Receivers dropped seven passes last night, including that would-be touchdown pass to Greg Little, and regardless Weeden has thrown for over 300 yards in both divisional matchups. Quarterbacks can't catch the passes too; the best Weeden can do is hit his guys in the hands and hope they make a play.
That's all well and good, and would be fine if he were 23. The next coach could come in, look at the bright spots like that and say "I can work with this kid."

But he's not 23. He'll be 29 next year with the potential of having a new coach in place. Just for comparison, he'd be roughly the same age as guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Cassel and Jason Campbell. Mediocre starters who you might tolerate short term but wouldn't want to build your franchise around. (Sorry Bills and Chiefs...)

So if you're the new coach and you've got Weeden sitting there after a mediocre rookie campaign while holding a top 5 draft pick and looking at potentially 3-4 franchise level QB prospects in the draft.....what do you do?

I wouldn't bet on the coach going with Weeden. If the new coach is a defensive minded coach, Weeden might have a better shot since those guys aren't quite as picky with their QBs (Lovie sticking with Rexy for so long for example) but a lot of new head coaches want "their guy" at QB. Even if that guy isn't a high draft pick, they still typically bring in a journeyman free agent with a little potential or draft a developmental QB.

Barring a sharp uptick in Weeden's level of play, I don't think I see him getting much more time in Cleveland after this year. It was a gamble that didn't pay off.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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Why sorry? There is only one person in the world who defends Cassel and it sure as hell isn't me!
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Why sorry? There is only one person in the world who defends Cassel and it sure as hell isn't me!
I just mean I'm sorry that your franchise tried to build around such a painfully mediocre QB.

Also:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...vis-on-ir-yet/

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Given everything he’s said over the last three-plus years, it should come as no surprise that Rex Ryan is giving his team a better chance than that. His eternal optimism is fueling the Jets’ decision not to put Revis on injured reserve at this point. Ryan explained his rationale during his Friday media session.

“If there’s that 0.002 percent chance he could play in a Super Bowl, why take that option out?” Ryan asked, via Manish Mehta of the New York Daily News.
A.) Jets in the Superbowl....hah!

B.) Maybe you should just put him on IR and free up a roster spot to sign an actual QB instead of converting a RB to that position...
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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Putting aside the Eagles game, Weeden has a 77.2 QBR with 59.1% completions, 6.7 YPA, 3 TD, and 3 INT. I'd say that's pretty impressive for a rookie, especially considering the running game is 29th in the league. Constantly blowing up your team every 1-2 years is the reason why losing teams consistently finish in the top ten. I think it'd be a mistake to completely write off a quarterback because his debut appearance was a disaster and to hold him accountable for an absurd amount of dropped passes from arguably the worst group of hands in the NFL. The Browns should give Weeden at least one more season - concentrating on surrounding him with reliable targets, not drop-prone guys like Greg Little and Mohamed Massaquoi - before pulling the plug.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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The Weeden hate has gotten out of hand. He's a rookie on a bad team people. Considering the circumstances he's looked okay.
Might be slightly off topic but i would have drafted Julio Jones and Justin Blackmon in consecutive drafts and if they still were lousy they'd be able to get one of the top QBs this year. I can't see Brandon Weedon leading the Browns to the superbowl, sorry.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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But he's not 23. He'll be 29 next year
He'll be 29 in like 3 weeks. He'll be 30 next year.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:11 PM    (permalink
Thecollegedropout
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A.) Jets in the Superbowl....hah!

B.) Maybe you should just put him on IR and free up a roster spot to sign an actual QB instead of converting a RB to that position...
Or maybe he's just waiting to see what the results are AFTER surgery and to see what the timetable is for Revis, if he can somehow comeback by Feb.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Or maybe he's just waiting to see what the results are AFTER surgery and to see what the timetable is for Revis, if he can somehow comeback by Feb.
See point A.)
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Bull.

I think the reason most people were driven batty with the Weeden hype was because of how "mature" and "polished" his supporters claimed him to be pre-draft, and why it was acceptable for him to go in the first round and why his age didn't matter long term.

It was all trash. Now those some people try to preach patience because he's inexperienced and on a bad team. They can't have it both ways.

As a 28 year old rookie, he needed to hit the ground running. No excuses. He did not and if it takes him the 3-4 years to develop into a successful NFL passer that it takes most QBs (if he's even given that time to develop) he'll already be to the point where many NFL players bodies start giving out on them. (Don't forget, he had to quit his baseball career because he basically threw out his arm.)

If there is major upheaval on the Cleveland staff, I wouldn't be shocked in the least if their next coach/GM is looking at the available QB prospects with their inevitable high first round pick he'll have.
No it's fact. Weeden hasn't played at the pro level thus he doesn't have the experience. Doesn't matter what so and so said. Speaking of which who said he would hit the ground running? Especially going to one of the league's worst teams with little talent to help him? Mel Kiper? If he was so great and was supposed to hit the ground running, why wasn't he a top 5 pick? Anyone with a brain should have known he would have taken at least three years with that team.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:13 PM    (permalink
Raiderz4Life
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Putting aside the Eagles game, Weeden has a 77.2 QBR with 59.1% completions, 6.7 YPA, 3 TD, and 3 INT. I'd say that's pretty impressive for a rookie, especially considering the running game is 29th in the league. Constantly blowing up your team every 1-2 years is the reason why losing teams consistently finish in the top ten. I think it'd be a mistake to completely write off a quarterback because his debut appearance was a disaster and to hold him accountable for an absurd amount of dropped passes from arguably the worst group of hands in the NFL. The Browns should give Weeden at least one more season - concentrating on surrounding him with reliable targets, not drop-prone guys like Greg Little and Mohamed Massaquoi - before pulling the plug.
Why do people do this? You can't just put aside anything. You can't just pick and choose what you want or don't want to evaluate. I'm sure if you put aside a bunch of performances a lot of players would look good.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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See point A.)
Yeah it might be jumping the gun as far as SB reservations BUT if the Jets somehow, someway make the SB then they'd be kicking themselves that they DQ'd Revis from participating.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Why would you want to rush your best player back from an injury even if you are in the SB? 5 months away from a torn ACL and he thinks he'll be back?
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