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Old 09-28-2012, 02:15 PM    (permalink
Thecollegedropout
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Why would you want to rush your best player back from an injury even if you are in the SB? 5 months away from a torn ACL and he thinks he'll be back?
More of just waiting and see from a doctor's opinion honestly. Its doing diligence but ultimately I expect Revis to go on IR probably 1-2 days after this game.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by raiderz4life View Post
Why do people do this? You can't just put aside anything. You can't just pick and choose what you want or don't want to evaluate. I'm sure if you put aside a bunch of performances a lot of players would look good.
I'm just saying playing poorly in week one shouldn't completely torpedo a rookie's career. We're one month into the season and people are already claiming that a first round pick should be replaced because he had one bad game.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ness View Post
No it's fact. Weeden hasn't played at the pro level thus he doesn't have the experience. Doesn't matter what so and so said. Speaking of which who said he would hit the ground running? Especially going to one of the league's worst teams with little talent to help him? Mel Kiper? If he was so great and was supposed to hit the ground running, why wasn't he a top 5 pick? Anyone with a brain should have known he would have taken at least three years with that team.
Somewhere there exists an "imagine you had Brandon Weeden rated as a top 10 pick" thread that somehow only gets stupider after that. I couldn't find it in a quick search and it may even be deleted now for how badly it devolved, but people were saying that stuff and more there. Even the analysts at ESPN got into it. (It seems that Weeden and Wilson were GOAT candidates according to them.)

Weeden might have had more of a chance had the ownership change not have happened when it did. It puts the future of all the decision makers on the team in doubt, along with anyone who might support Weeden through struggles despite his age.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by raiderz4life View Post
Why do people do this? You can't just put aside anything. You can't just pick and choose what you want or don't want to evaluate. I'm sure if you put aside a bunch of performances a lot of players would look good.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to sports. I can't stand that. "Well if you take away that game where he looked REALLY bad, he doesn't look that bad!".. no ****?
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Somewhere there exists an "imagine you had Brandon Weeden rated as a top 10 pick" thread that somehow only gets stupider after that. I couldn't find it in a quick search and it may even be deleted now for how badly it devolved, but people were saying that stuff and more there. Even the analysts at ESPN got into it. (It seems that Weeden and Wilson were GOAT candidates according to them.)

Weeden might have had more of a chance had the ownership change not have happened when it did. It puts the future of all the decision makers on the team in doubt, along with anyone who might support Weeden through struggles despite his age.
That thread should stay dead for all time. ALL TIME.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Meh, people are saying he is a terrible QB, because of that ONE game. But if you look at his other games he has been decent. It's just to show that, yes he was unbelievably bad then, but that it doesn't define the rest of his career or even this season for him.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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Why are you the way that you are?
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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I thought it actually had that statement in the title, but yeah, there it is...

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god i hope some idiot gm takes him in the first. that would be hilarious.
Much win there.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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This is one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to sports. I can't stand that. "Well if you take away that game where he looked REALLY bad, he doesn't look that bad!".. no ****?
He had one terrible game, and aside from that he's looked fine. A lot of people (myself included) expected Weeden to be a disappointment, and unfortunately that game pretty much cemented that perception. People don't seem to be re-evaluating their stance in light of his last three games, they appear to have already made up their minds that he will not be a good quarterback. I don't think he'll ever develop into a stud, but I could easily see him ending up similar to a Ryan Fitzpatrick, passing for 3400 yards and 24 TD a season or so.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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i kind of get off on pain?
Then you'll love re-reading that thread!
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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holy **** people, he's played in 4 games as a rookie. He looked competent last night. Give it some time.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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hahaha I see someone played our favorite game in the Weeden thread. QB A has abcd QB B has abcdefg....one of them is Weeden but I won't say who the other is.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Why would you want to rush your best player back from an injury even if you are in the SB? 5 months away from a torn ACL and he thinks he'll be back?
It's really 4.5 months away from the Super Bowl. And Revis probably won't have the surgery for another week or two at the earliest. So 4 months recovery.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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hahaha I see someone played our favorite game in the Weeden game. QB A has abcd QB B has abcdefg....one of them is Weeden but I won't say who the other is.
The only way you can truly compare a Big 12 QB's stats to another QBs is if you go with that other QBs starts vs. air. Big 12 football is "put up 600 yards of offense, lose by 30 points."
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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right? we should give him 3 years, like we give every other 22/23 year old rookie qb.
Three years? He's so polished and mature and pro ready...he'll be awesome right out of the gate!
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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I still love how the backbone of the reason every hates on the Browns selection and dislikes Weeden is because of his age.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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right? we should give him 3 years, like we give every other 22/23 year old rookie qb.
Maybe not that much. I am starting to think that model is outdated and used only if you have your rookie QB sit for a couple of years and then play him. Now a days it seems like people expect rookies to come out and do well.

What makes this so interesting is Weeden's age. I think there should be patience but the team has to do everything possible to make him succeed. If that means changing the scheme or loading up on offensive players than so be it.

I liked what the Panthers did last season by adding Newton's college scheme and elements of that to the NFL offensive. I was very impressed with the OC's flexibility to do that. Maybe the Browns need to that? Put that QB in a the best possible situation to succeed.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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I still love how the backbone of the reason every hates on the Browns selection and dislikes Weeden is because of his age.
His age plays into the fact that he doesn't have time to go through the normal development cycle and will likely cause the next coach/GM to move on from it.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Maybe not that much. I am starting to think that model is outdated and used only if you have your rookie QB sit for a couple of years and then play him. Now a days it seems like people expect rookies to come out and do well.

What makes this so interesting is Weeden's age. I think there should be patience but the team has to do everything possible to make him succeed. If that means changing the scheme or loading up on offensive players than so be it.

I liked what the Panthers did last season by adding Newton's college scheme and elements of that to the NFL offensive. I was very impressed with the OC's flexibility to do that. Maybe the Browns need to that? Put that QB in a the best possible situation to succeed.
You say this as if rookies never do well. We've actually seen quite a few instances in recent years of rookie QBs playing capably right away. Justify why things worked out for each one however you wish, but the point is that team, fan and media expectations are higher for rookie QBs now than they ever have been.

Going out and playing like Gabbert or Clausen did their rookie years will likely get the team to move on from you pretty quickly. Complicating matters is when there is a coaching change on top of it because the guy that drafted the QB is no longer there to support and defend him.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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Hey Andy Dalton has a perfect 158.3 Passer rating in the 4th quarter.
So that's pretty cool.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
His age plays into the fact that he doesn't have time to go through the normal development cycle and will likely cause the next coach/GM to move on from it.
This is true mostly because the Browns have a new owner that is likely to clean house. What if the browns start winning these close games and manage to get to 6-10 or something like that? The regime may stick around. I understand that people didn't like Weeden coming into the draft and laughed at the Browns taking him in the first round but its funny seeing people bash him in here right now alluding to him being out of it in a year or two considering he's gotten better just about every week so far. He's still making rookie mistakes, like the pick-six, but he's also showing flashes of why the others felt he had the talent to justify taking him in the first round.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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You say this as if rookies never do well. We've actually seen quite a few instances in recent years of rookie QBs playing capably right away. Justify why things worked out for each one however you wish, but the point is that team, fan and media expectations are higher for rookie QBs now than they ever have been.

Going out and playing like Gabbert or Clausen did their rookie years will likely get the team to move on from you pretty quickly. Complicating matters is when there is a coaching change on top of it because the guy that drafted the QB is no longer there to support and defend him.
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the point is that team, fan and media expectations are higher for rookie QBs now than they ever have been.

I agree! Rookies do well. But i am saying was it was never the norm way back. The norm was draft a guy, sit him, and then play him later on. This changed really when Ben started and did well. By then the rules of the NFL shifted, and it became a passing league, with the rules also favoring the offensive players.

Matt Ryan then came along and did well, and that's when I noticed the fan and media expectations drastically change. Now it seems like the norm is for the rookie QB to do well, and if someone doesn't do well early on, it's bad press and perhaps the bust label.

The Jags QB has an uphill climb to win back that fan/media respect. I would hate for Eli to play as a rookie now with those expectations and playing in NY. It would be a million times worse with our own fans pointing to the successful rookie QBs as evidence which would fuel WW3. It was big debate in the giants MB, and sports talk radio. If Eli played as a rookie now, I can't imagine the drama.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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I never check out that part of the forum where the draft thread regarding Weeden was brought up. So who was saying outlandish comments?
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Cudders,

Rice had a terrible average because they would run the ball in such obvious running situations the Browns knew what was coming. I agree you need to keep him fresh but the situation play calling from Cameron is just so awful. I'd limit his catches a little and let him run a bit more.

Iím not in full agreement with how Cameron called the game. But the issue wasnít lack of touches. The issue was the fulfillment of those touches. I liked their counter of getting Rice in space and thatís where he did most of his damage. The Brownsí front responded great to their traditional running game though. I wouldíve liked to have seen the sweep pass wrinkle implemented even earlier.

As for Weeden, hereís the problem. He was all-time horrific against the Eagles. He was above-average against the Bengals. He was below-average against the Bills. And he was average last night against the Ravens. He has been erratic and wild so far. You expect that from a rookie, sure, but Weeden doesnít have the same luxuries as other rookies because of his age. Fair or unfair, itís the truth. This is a quarterback thatís nearing his thirties. He doesnít have two or three seasons to work out the kinks and then just become a Fitzpatrick-esque quarterback. If thatís his ceiling, thatís a waste of a time. After four games, Iíve seen him make stick throws and Iíve seen him make stupid throws. He needs more of the former if he wants to survive as a starter. Because thereís no guarantee the regime that drafted him lasts past this season.

And, for the record, Iím not adamant the Browns should draft another quarterback in the top five because I havenít watched a ton of these prospects yet. If I didnít like what I saw there, I would be open to using Weeden as a stopgap and addressing other issues. Grab a coverage-changing wide receiver, a premier pass-rusher, or another corner to pair with Joe Haden. But, if thereís a quarterback that I like, and feel comfortable handing the future to, Iím not letting Weeden and a Fitzpatrick-esque upside stop me from doing it. I donít care how high he was drafted or when.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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absolutely. the broncos did the same for tebow. i don't know why more teams don't do it, other than ego on the OC's side. but yeah, i think the issue with weeden is that he *had* to be ready. if he goes through the same progression as, say, drew brees (even if he ends up being that good), he'll be in his mid-30's before he's a solid starting qb. that's just unacceptable from your first round pick.

in general, i do agree. i think it's silly, at all levels, to evaluate anyone after 1/4 of the season has been played. but i also haven't posted about weeden until the 'hate' stuff started coming up.
We didn't do it when we drafted Eli. We run a high risk/high reward offense with a very complex set of WR rules, specifically option and choice routes. It's one aspect of our offense I loath with every bit of my heart! We didn't change anything for anyone. We simply dropped Eli in and said good luck. On top of that, we hired a pathetic OC, in John Huganel, and had guys who all backed Kerry Collins. So they weren't happy with a rookie QB.

One contemporary would be big Ben. The steelers should be applauded on how they developed Ben. I have lots of family there and we would talk about this. Great defense, and basically a run first offense. Ben did very well! We instead had Eli throw 557 times in his first full year.

My point is I LOVE, as an offensive coach, when other coaches change their scheme to put their franchise QB in the best position to win. I respect Whisenhunt for doing that AND respect the Panthers OC for adding elements of the college game to their pro system so that Newton could flourish. Newton got his props last year, but I give equal props to the OC for putting Newton in the best chance to succeed.

Even give props to the GM for getting talent around Newton.
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