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Old 03-26-2013, 01:50 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Originally Posted by findthedr View Post
They dont have to. Once again, they will have access to medical records and run their own tests.



Among people who are ignorant.

Unless you have first hand information, feel free to include yourself among the ignorant.

Sure, if you lump all back problems into one category. It would be foolish to do such a thing. It would be just as foolish to label ALL injuries (from dehydration to a career ending injury) simply as an "injury." That too would be a "red flag." That being said, most educated people under stand that dehydration isnt a red flag or a career ending injury. That is also the case for back spasms for the vast majority of people.

No it wouldn't. The back contains the spinal cord, which is sort of important to one's health in a variety of ways. No back injury should be taken lightly for that reason. It would be foolish to not take a back injury lightly. It's comforting to know you aren't praticing medical doctor.

You could say that about any injury.

Injuries that involve compotents of the central nervous system at taken more seriously than all other injuries, so, no.

That being said, Albert was well enough to play the last game of the season and pass his physical.

True. The back kept him out of starting 5 of the last 6 games. Playing the last game of the season doesn't mean he won't have ongoing issues. More time is needed before you or anyone else can say with certainty that he is over his back issues.

If someone "pulls a hamstring" than they take rest and it gets better. People dont go on and on about a hamstring pull being a "red flag." For the vast majority of people (and likely Albert), back spasms are similar...a simple muskuloskeletal strain.

Comparing back spasms to a hamstring pull is embarassingly inaccurate.

This isnt some arbitrary concept like you are trying to make it out to be. A good history and physical can illicit the cause of most back problems as well as a diagnosis. The rest can be confirmed with imaging and other tests.

Then perform them.

The chiefs (and most teams) have access to orthopedists and sports medicine physicians. Diagnosing and treating back injuries are a major part of their practice, and is something that they are experts at.
Uh-huh. Here are few reports I pulled that speak to the issue:

Kansas City Star:

Chiefs GM John Dorsey says the team has had "ongoing communications" with free agent LT Branden Albert.
Albert was a college guard, but Dorsey also indicated he views the 28-year-old as a left tackle, long term. "It will be an ongoing communication with his representatives," said Dorsey, "and as we get into free agency, we will see where that is." The Chiefs remain concerned with Albert's 2012back injury.

ESPN

Chiefs coach Andy Reid referred to free agent LT Branden Albert's 2012 back problems as a "fairly significant injury."The injury only cost Albert three games, but Reid's comments hint it's a more serious issue than the number of missed games indicate. "So we've kind of got to work through that," Reid said. "Our doctors were able to evaluate him, we're talking through it and we'll kind of reconvene after (the Combine)." There have been rumors that the Chiefs won't re-sign Albert because of the injury.

Kansas City Star

Chiefs GM John Dorsey said drafting Texas A&M LT Luke Joeckel would not prevent him from re-signing free agent Branden Albert.
Albert's natural position is left tackle as well, but Dorsey seems to be suggesting a position change. "Who's to say both of those guys are locked in to playing left tackle? Maybe one plays left guard, center, right guard, right tackle. You put your best five offensive linemen out there," he said. As one of the few teams significantly under the salary cap, the Chiefs can certainly afford to bring back Albert. The status of his back injury will be a pivotal factor. Kansas City Star

Franchise player Branden Albert indicated he is nowhere close to a long-term deal with the Chiefs.
Although they have until mid-July to negotiate, Kansas City will likely let Albert play out the season under the one-year, $9.83 franchise tag tender. It essentially serves as a "prove it" year for a player that missed three games last year due to back woes. Therefore, the Kansas City Star suggests that drafting Texas A&M LT Luke Joeckel or Central Michigan LT Eric Fisher "would seem to be still in play."


There is no question his back remains a concern at this point. You are the outlier.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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The Chiefs could easily do what the Titans did, although we did it because our franchise LT was retiring. But we draft Michael Roos, our future LT and played him at RT for his first year. Then in his 2nd year moved him to LT and he's been great since
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by findthedr View Post
They dont have to. Once again, they will have access to medical records and run their own tests.



Among people who are ignorant.



Sure, if you lump all back problems into one category. It would be foolish to do such a thing. It would be just as foolish to label ALL injuries (from dehydration to a career ending injury) simply as an "injury." That too would be a "red flag." That being said, most educated people under stand that dehydration isnt a red flag or a career ending injury. That is also the case for back spasms for the vast majority of people.



You could say that about any injury. That being said, Albert was well enough to play the last game of the season and pass his physical.

If someone "pulls a hamstring" than they take rest and it gets better. People dont go on and on about a hamstring pull being a "red flag." For the vast majority of people (and likely Albert), back spasms are similar...a simple muskuloskeletal strain.

This isnt some arbitrary concept like you are trying to make it out to be. A good history and physical can illicit the cause of most back problems as well as a diagnosis. The rest can be confirmed with imaging and other tests.

The chiefs (and most teams) have access to orthopedists and sports medicine physicians. Diagnosing and treating back injuries are a major part of their practice, and is something that they are experts at.
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Originally Posted by mightytitan9 View Post
The Chiefs could easily do what the Titans did, although we did it because our franchise LT was retiring. But we draft Michael Roos, our future LT and played him at RT for his first year. Then in his 2nd year moved him to LT and he's been great since
If it was that simply, then every team would do that.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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What 'back issue' specifically does Albert have??
Sounds vague to me. More like spin if the Chiefs FO is ever questioned in hindsight why they took an OT first overall instead of a QB.

If they potentially want to trade him, talking about Albert's 'bad back' repeatedly in the media is an amateurish move.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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No it wouldn't. The back contains the spinal cord, which is sort of important to one's health in a variety of ways. No back injury should be taken lightly for that reason.
nerve damage can be easily illicited from history/physical exam/imaging.

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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
It's comforting to know you aren't praticing medical doctor.
lol. if only you knew.

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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
Injuries that involve compotents of the central nervous system at taken more seriously than all other injuries, so, no.
back spasms dont have to have anything to do with the CNS.

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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
The back kept him out of starting 5 of the last 6 games. Playing the last game of the season doesn't mean he won't have ongoing issues.
if he had back spasms (which is what he claims), and he is recovered (which he and Dorsey claim) than the issue is self-limited. If he has another back problem it will be independent and unrelated to the previous one.

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More time is needed before you or anyone else can say with certainty that he is over his back issues.
no, more time is not needed before the chiefs and their medical team will know with certainty that he is over his back spasms....specially if he was medically cleared without restrictions. The chiefs offseason conditioning program begins in April (before the draft), so the chiefs will get another oppurtunity to get a look at Albert.

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Comparing back spasms to a hamstring pull is embarassingly inaccurate.
not if the cause for both is a muscle strain. It doesnt matter if that strain is in the back or in the quads. They both would require rest and are self-limited.

If Albert didnt have radiculopathy ("shooting pain" that is an indicator of nerve damage) AND his pain improved with rest, than there is a 99% certainty that he has a simple back pain according to uptodate and latest literature (current feb 5, 2013).

Last edited by findthedr : 03-26-2013 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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nerve damage can be easily illicited from history/physical exam/imaging.


lol. if only you knew.



back spasms dont have to have anything to do with the CNS.



if he had back spasms (which is what he claims), and he is recovered (which he and Dorsey claim) than the issue is self-limited. If he has another back problem it will be independent and unrelated to the previous one.



no, more time is not needed before the chiefs and their medical team will know with certainty that he is over his back spasms....specially if he was medically cleared without restrictions. The chiefs offseason conditioning program begins in April (before the draft), so the chiefs will get another oppurtunity to get a look at Albert.



not if the cause for both is a muscle strain. It doesnt matter if that strain is in the back or in the quads. They both would require rest and are self-limited.

If Albert didnt have radiculopathy ("shooting pain" that is an indicator of nerve damage) AND his pain improved with rest, than there is a 99% certainty that he has a simple back pain according to uptodate and latest literature (current feb 5, 2013).
Then it's solved. Now all you have to do insult all the reporters with your seemingly infinite bullsh......knowledge and tell them how misguided and stupid they are with their false reporting in a passive aggressive, condescending fashion. Think you can pull that off?
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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What 'back issue' specifically does Albert have??
Sounds vague to me. More like spin if the Chiefs FO is ever questioned in hindsight why they took an OT first overall instead of a QB.

If they potentially want to trade him, talking about Albert's 'bad back' repeatedly in the media is an amateurish move.
Well if that's spin, then what is this?

According to NFL.com's Ian Rapoport, Chiefs scouts are "fascinated" by West Virginia QB Geno Smith.
They're reportedly comparing him to a young Donovan McNabb and love how he throws. They could also just be throwing up the kind of smokescreen that we're going to see a lot of over the next month. GM John Dorsey has already gone on the record saying he doesn't think any of this year's quarterback prospects merit a first-round grade, and then he went out and gave up a pair of high draft picks for Alex Smith. By now pumping up Smith in the media, the Chiefs could entice a team to trade for the No. 1 overall pick.


Either the Chefs are idiots for making the decision on (and regretting) QB so early in the process, or they are idiots for thinking anyone is going to be idiotic enough to fall for their spin that they are now high on Geno.

Last edited by Black Bolt : 03-27-2013 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Chiefs offseason conditioning begins April 1st, and voluntary OTA's are before the draft. If the chiefs are set on trading Albert, than they would not want him to show up and risk injury at the team facilities. On the otherhand, Albert might want to show up to get in the good graces of the new staff in order to get a new contract.

Suprised that Geno is having a private workout with the chiefs. It seems improbable that the chiefs would select him. RG3 declined a private workout with the Colts because he knew it would be a waste of time.

I kinda believe that Reid wanted Alex Smith before ever evaluating any of the qbs in this draft. He is in a "win now" mode and doesnt want to have to go with the growing pains of a young qb. That being said, Dorsey should have never said that no qbs were worthy of the #1 pick earlier this year.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by findthedr View Post
Chiefs offseason conditioning begins April 1st, and voluntary OTA's are before the draft. If the chiefs are set on trading Albert, than they would not want him to show up and risk injury at the team facilities. On the otherhand, Albert might want to show up to get in the good graces of the new staff in order to get a new contract.

Suprised that Geno is having a private workout with the chiefs. It seems improbable that the chiefs would select him. RG3 declined a private workout with the Colts because he knew it would be a waste of time.

I kinda believe that Reid wanted Alex Smith before ever evaluating any of the qbs in this draft. He is in a "win now" mode and doesnt want to have to go with the growing pains of a young qb. That being said, Dorsey should have never said that no qbs were worthy of the #1 pick earlier this year.
Geno has nothing to lose by working out with the Chiefs. He could theoretically wow the chiefs brass and build a rapport with the coaches so that maybe the will take him. It's more questionable on the Chiefs' end.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Even if Geno magically appears on the Chiefs draft radar at this late date, what team honestly believes they're in the market to draft a QB first overall??

Can't play poker if everyone knows the cards you're holding.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Even if Geno magically appears on the Chiefs draft radar at this late date, what team honestly believes they're in the market to draft a QB first overall??

Can't play poker if everyone knows the cards you're holding.
Well they haven't given Smith an extension and from all accounts, aren't any time soon.

I know it may not make sense to a lot of people but to me, I think it's a great scenario to take Geno Smith. Have him sit behind Smith for a season or even two, pushing him day in and day out, and then he takes over....if not sooner. Dorsey and Reid can say whatever they want but I don't believe for a second that they believe Alex Smith is the QBOTF for the Chiefs.

I don't believe they're trading Albert at all and they filled almost all of our needs in FA so they are absolutely in a position to take Geno.....if they want.

I think is pro day might have swayed them...how much so we'll see.

Going from....

Matt Cassel/Brady Quinn/Ricky Stanzi

to

Alex Smith/Geno Smith/Chase Daniel

...is a drastic overhaul of the QB position in one year and solidifies the present and future at that position.

If they keep Albert, who else is there realistically to take? I guess Jordan or Ansah.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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I also kind of think that Geno Smith is still a very real option for KC.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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Geno Smith is good but he's not "perfect"

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National Football Post's Dan Pompei was told by an AFC general manager that Texas A&M OT Luke Joeckel is "perfect".

"His angles are so good," the AFC general manager said. "Everything is perfect with him. He’s technically smooth. He’s incredibly instinctive, and sometimes that passes people by." Joeckel has very few holes in his game, as the only concern is that sometimes he overextends for the speed rush. However, he is still considered the favorite to go No. 1 overall.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Laughable that someone called a prospect perfect. Remember the best offensive lineman prospect EVER? How did he end up doing?

No one is perfect, and Luke Joeckel is far from it.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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After the situation Alex Smith just came from, and how he lost his job to a highly drafted QB, there is a 0% chance it happens again after KC spent premium picks to trade for him. KC isn't fooling anybody, they are a day late and a dollar short with these silly rumors. I am sure that if anybody else in the top 5-10 would love to call their bluff and have them draft Geno to let another prospect fall to them.


If Alex Smith couldn't keep his job over a 2nd rd pick, what do you think will happen with the 1st overall pick? If Geno was in their sights, Flynn makes way more sense. Who trades for a QB with the 1st pick of the 2nd round, then drafts one with the 1st overall QB lol. Please. Those rumors just make them sound like idiots more so then disguising any of their plans.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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Perfect compared to what ? How can someone be a perfect football player ?
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Man that ****** quarterback in KC is gonna have some clean pocket to throw incompletions out of!
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:53 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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It's the Albert back problems talk that seems rather silly to me. There is zero chance KC franchises him if they had even the slightest doubt about his back. I don't think there is any concern there.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:42 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
What 'back issue' specifically does Albert have??
Sounds vague to me. More like spin if the Chiefs FO is ever questioned in hindsight why they took an OT first overall instead of a QB.

If they potentially want to trade him, talking about Albert's 'bad back' repeatedly in the media is an amateurish move.
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It's the Albert back problems talk that seems rather silly to me. There is zero chance KC franchises him if they had even the slightest doubt about his back. I don't think there is any concern there.
Right, because teams always do what is logical throughout the history of the NFL. They don't do things like draft WRs in the top ten 3 out of 4 years or open their wallets up to nothing players like Javon Walker or pay $100 mil to Fat Albert. Every single move every team has every made has been the right one.

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Old 03-28-2013, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Right, because teams always do what is logical throught the history of the NFL. They don't do things like draft WRs in the top ten 3 out of 4 years or open their wallets up to nothing players like Javon Walker or pay $100 mil to Fat Albert. Every single move every team has every made has been the right one.
Exactly what correlation is there between repeatedly drafting completely healthy WR's in the top 10 and giving 10 million dollars to a guy not healthy?
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Exactly what correlation is there between repeatedly drafting completely healthy WR's in the top 10 and giving 10 million dollars to a guy not healthy?
The correlation is teams are perfectly capable of making bad decisions, therefore, just because a teams makes a certain move doesn't automatically mean it's the right one.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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So the Chiefs just hired Brad Childress as the "Spread Game Analyst/Special Projects". This is somewhat of a wild theory, but Geno Smith played in a spread offense in college and would certainly be a special project. I realize Alex Smith also ran the spread in college, but that was what, 8 years ago? I'm probably reading way too much into it, but it's an interesting theory.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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I also kind of think that Geno Smith is still a very real option for KC.
I hope.....
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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So the Chiefs just hired Brad Childress as the "Spread Game Analyst/Special Projects". This is somewhat of a wild theory, but Geno Smith played in a spread offense in college and would certainly be a special project. I realize Alex Smith also ran the spread in college, but that was what, 8 years ago? I'm probably reading way too much into it, but it's an interesting theory.
Also consider Geno is coming from the same core spread philosophy as Kevin Kolb and Nick Foles - two previous Andy Reid QB's. Geno's got more arm talent than both of em. I don't think it's a stretch at all to think the Chiefs are legitimately high on Geno Smith at this point.
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