The Kansas City Chiefs Select... - Page 34

MassNole · 02-11-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28

With Michael Vick re-upping in Philadelphia, might we see a deal involving Nick Foles to Kansas City? I'm thinking it wouldn't cost KC more than a conditional 4th round pick or so, his skill set/strengths are similar to Geno Smith, has the year of experience in Reid's system, and carries a much lower price tag than anyone they take at #1. From there Kansas City could take the best player available (probably Star) and target a corner or receiver in round two.

Makes sense then Philly drafts E.J. Manuel in Round 3 to replace Vick.

Raiderz4Life · 02-11-2013, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28

With Michael Vick re-upping in Philadelphia, might we see a deal involving Nick Foles to Kansas City? I'm thinking it wouldn't cost KC more than a conditional 4th round pick or so, his skill set/strengths are similar to Geno Smith, has the year of experience in Reid's system, and carries a much lower price tag than anyone they take at #1. From there Kansas City could take the best player available (probably Star) and target a corner or receiver in round two.

Viddy is gonna kiel yoo.

vidae · 02-11-2013, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28

With Michael Vick re-upping in Philadelphia, might we see a deal involving Nick Foles to Kansas City? I'm thinking it wouldn't cost KC more than a conditional 4th round pick or so, his skill set/strengths are similar to Geno Smith, has the year of experience in Reid's system, and carries a much lower price tag than anyone they take at #1. From there Kansas City could take the best player available (probably Star) and target a corner or receiver in round two.

Oh god yes please, that's exactly what I want, Nick Foles to be our QB of the future instead of Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson.

princefielder28 · 02-11-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

Oh god yes please, that's exactly what I want, Nick Foles to be our QB of the future instead of Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson.

How is Geno leaps and bounds better than Foles?

vidae · 02-11-2013, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28

How is Geno leaps and bounds better than Foles?

Is that a serious question?

Wootylicous · 02-11-2013, 02:34 PM

princefielder28 · 02-11-2013, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

Is that a serious question?

Yes...evaluating Geno as a prospect this year I see many similarities to Foles from last year

jrdrylie · 02-11-2013, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28

With Michael Vick re-upping in Philadelphia, might we see a deal involving Nick Foles to Kansas City? I'm thinking it wouldn't cost KC more than a conditional 4th round pick or so, his skill set/strengths are similar to Geno Smith, has the year of experience in Reid's system, and carries a much lower price tag than anyone they take at #1. From there Kansas City could take the best player available (probably Star) and target a corner or receiver in round two.

I really hope this happens.

vidae · 02-11-2013, 02:49 PM

Chip Kelly said that Vick and Foles are going to compete for the starting job anyways.

Monomach · 02-11-2013, 02:50 PM

I can't believe this thread is still going. They're taking a QB, people. A QB. Consider it a done deal.

princefielder28 · 02-11-2013, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

Chip Kelly said that Vick and Foles are going to compete for the starting job anyways.

That could simply be coach-speak...Chip Kelly will be better off drafting a mobile, live arm QB like Manuel or Scott than having Foles sit behind Vick in an offensive style not suited for him

vidae · 02-11-2013, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

I can't believe this thread is still going. They're taking a QB, people. A QB. Consider it a done deal.

People won't listen and they don't know the Chiefs roster as well as they think. Plus it doesn't help that people are starting random rumors all over the place about our impending free agents either.

Oh well.

scottyboy · 02-11-2013, 02:58 PM

the only excuse is if people think Albert's gonna leave, or if he does. then it's geno v joeckl.

but i'm trust viddy in that Albert will stay (or get franchised, still staying) and Geno'll be the pick

Monomach · 02-11-2013, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

People won't listen and they don't know the Chiefs roster as well as they think. Plus it doesn't help that people are starting random rumors all over the place about our impending free agents either.

Oh well.

I read that Albert and Bowe are probably going to sign in Chicago for a combined cap number of 10M per year because they really want to play for our new Canadian overlord.*

*Yeah, really did read that one.

princefielder28 · 02-11-2013, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28

How is Geno leaps and bounds better than Foles?

Vidae, I know you're set on Geno being the first overall pick but could you answer this question for me.

Geno has better athleticism and was able to escape for first downs from time-to-time, but in terms of operating from the pocket, because Geno certainly isn't a Kaepernick or Russell Wilson in terms of mobility, how is Geno different than Foles?

Wootylicous · 02-11-2013, 03:07 PM

Your hate for Trestman is unjustified Monomach.

vidae · 02-11-2013, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28

Vidae, I know you're set on Geno being the first overall pick but could you answer this question for me.

Geno has better athleticism and was able to escape for first downs from time-to-time, but in terms of operating from the pocket, because Geno certainly isn't a Kaepernick or Russell Wilson in terms of mobility, how is Geno different than Foles?

Granted I'm no pro scout or anything, but to me, Geno does everything Foles does, but on another level. I can't honestly see one facet of Foles' game that is better than Geno, and Geno hasn't played a down in the NFL yet.

I'm obviously higher on Geno than most (Geno is 1a and Tyler Wilson is 1b to me) but I can't see the major criticisms that some people do in Genos game. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but when I watch Geno I see a guy who has the ability to go through his progressions well, solid feet in the pocket, and is a great decision maker. It doesn't hurt that people rave about his work ethic or study habits either.

princefielder28 · 02-11-2013, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

Granted I'm no pro scout or anything, but to me, Geno does everything Foles does, but on another level. I can't honestly see one facet of Foles' game that is better than Geno, and Geno hasn't played a down in the NFL yet.

I'm obviously higher on Geno than most (Geno is 1a and Tyler Wilson is 1b to me) but I can't see the major criticisms that some people do in Genos game. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but when I watch Geno I see a guy who has the ability to go through his progressions well, solid feet in the pocket, and is a great decision maker. It doesn't hurt that people rave about his work ethic or study habits either.

If you were arguing for Tyler Wilson to be the #1 guy then you'd receive zero criticism from me. When I watched Geno, and this is part of the beauty of scouting and the NFL Draft, I see something very different in his game. I don't see Geno as a player who goes through progressions well, his feet need quite a bit of work, especially in the face of pressure, and I question his ability to make the NFL style throws of going to the boundaries or fitting a ball threw a zone coverage and into a window.

bitonti · 02-11-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28

If you were arguing for Tyler Wilson to be the #1 guy then you'd receive zero criticism from me. When I watched Geno, and this is part of the beauty of scouting and the NFL Draft, I see something very different in his game. I don't see Geno as a player who goes through progressions well, his feet need quite a bit of work, especially in the face of pressure, and I question his ability to make the NFL style throws of going to the boundaries or fitting a ball threw a zone coverage and into a window.

the fact that a legit case can be made for Tyler vs Geno pretty much means no QB is worth 1 overall. And I like these players.

Geno fan boys need to climb out of the rabbit hole. there's no shame in liking this player. But what about value? You can get him at the bottom of rd 1/ top of rd 2. Andy can pass at 1 and watch the slide happen. It's gonna be like Brady Quinn. Geno should go where Tyler wilson will go. Even tho there's alot of potential in this class, there's no sure-fire franchise QB in 2013.

Just cause geno smith plays QB doesn't erase everyone's memory on how his season ended. His pocket presence in the Syracuse game was Sanchez-like.

descendency · 02-11-2013, 04:04 PM

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/0ap...sted-by-demand

One AFC team's GM and Scouting director had a few interesting things to say:

1. Geno Smith is the only QB they consider a first rounder (but barely).
2. They think all of the QBs in this class will have to go through a maturation process before they are ready to play.
3. (Probably the most funny one) Matt Barkley compares to Kellen Moore physically.
4. Tyler Wilson is the "big sleeper" of the group.

descendency · 02-11-2013, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

the fact that a legit case can be made for Tyler vs Geno pretty much means no QB is worth 1 overall. And I like these players.

No it doesn't. The same could have been said in 1998 or 2012. Maybe both guys work out (Luck vs RG3) or maybe one works out (Manning vs Leaf) or maybe none of them do. But having 2 guys debated does not mean that no one is worthy of being #1.

The individual grades of those players are what tell you they are not worth being picked #1.

Personally, I don't think the Chiefs want to trade back into round 1 around pick 20 (and ultimately probably give up a top 5 pick next year) to get a guy they could just grab at #1 this year. It might be a huge reach, but it will be the cheapest way to make that reach.

FUNBUNCHER · 02-11-2013, 04:15 PM

I'll say it right now, if Geno Smith is selected by the Chiefs and starts from day 1, he will be the runaway OROTY. It won't be close.

Geno Smith and Nick Foles simply don't play the QB position the say way. Foles actually did stare down his WRs, held on to the ball too long and was not what anyone would call a great decision maker with the football.

I liked Foles as a prospect in 2012, but he wasn't a top 10 type of talent.

People should just come out and put on the table and stop trying to fill in the picture with asinine arguments and bogus comparisons; if you just flat out on a gut level don't like a prospect, say so.
Stop trying to prove something that isn't supported by a prospect's actual play.

Many times evaluations come down to gut and the eye test anyway, which in more than a few cases is the correct read.

There were people on this board for instance who just didn't like Vernon Gholston as a pro prospect, despite his freakish measurables and flashes of dominance at Ohio State. They didn't try to repeatedly prove why they didn't like Gholston because it wasn't easy to quantify.

I'm open and willing to listen to arguments against Smith being considered a top QB prospect, but don't insult people's intelligence by suggesting he and Nick Foles are similar level prospects.

bitonti · 02-11-2013, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

Personally, I don't think the Chiefs want to trade back into round 1 around pick 20 (and ultimately probably give up a top 5 pick next year) to get a guy they could just grab at #1 this year. It might be a huge reach, but it will be the cheapest way to make that reach.

If the Chiefs believe in Geno they don't believe they are top 5 again in 2014. Luck and RG3 took their teams to the playoffs as rookies. that's what a franchise QB is expected to do. If Geno gets picked (anywhere) and the chiefs are just as bad, that's a fire able decision by Andy.

FUNBUNCHER · 02-11-2013, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

If the Chiefs believe in Geno they don't believe they are top 5 again in 2014. Luck and RG3 took their teams to the playoffs as rookies. that's what a franchise QB is expected to do. If Geno gets picked (anywhere) and the chiefs are just as bad, that's a fire able decision by Andy.

I think the standard for Geno Smith will be can he be as effective as Sam Bradford was as a rookie, not can he lead his team to the playoffs as a rookie like RG3/Luck/Russell Wilson did.
What the latter three did is totally unprecedented and not really fair to expect from a rookie QB.

You're putting way too many expectations on a rookie QB IMO.

descendency · 02-11-2013, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

If the Chiefs believe in Geno they don't believe they are top 5 again in 2014. Luck and RG3 took their teams to the playoffs as rookies. that's what a franchise QB is expected to do. If Geno gets picked (anywhere) and the chiefs are just as bad, that's a fire able decision by Andy.

Maybe they won't be top 5 next year, but we've been really lucky with the last few QBs. Many of them come in and have really bad years in year 1.

Lots of teams that pick in the top 5 (including the ones that draft QBs) tend to end up in the top 10 the preceding year.