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Old 03-05-2013, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
I just quoted a local newspaper, dated today, that said a long term deal between Albert and the Chiefs is unlikely.
Did you read the article? It didn't say it was unlikely, it said that they weren't close to a long term deal right now. Those are two VERY different animals. They franchised him so they could get CLOSER to a long term deal.

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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
the same crowd who is going "OMG where to playz jOeckel?!" has no problem drafting Geno Smith and sitting him for 3 seasons.
This is more of your random inane ********. No one said to sit Geno for three years. You're just being ridiculous at this point and it's really starting to get annoying.

Quit your trolling.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
It's probably gonna be Floyd.... And he can absolutely play the 5-technique on 1 and 2 and rush inside on passing downs.
good ESPN article talking about that.

With less than 32'' arms He doesnt have the ideal length to play end. Like Glen Dorsey, he could do it, but would be a better fit in a 4-3.

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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Drafting Joeckel to play tackle and kicking him inside to guard for the year would be beyond moronic.
yup. Also not thrilled about having a 6'6'' guard. A 6'3.7'' Jeff Allen will have better leverage against butterball DT. btw, Jeff Allen was a very good LT at illinois...He just doesnt have ideal length to play LT in the NFL.

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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
this isn't Madden 2010. You can't just fill your OL with random positions and switch guys in and out with it having no effect. Holy crap.

The only reason the Chiefs would draft an OT at 1 is because they don't believe they can sign Albert longterm AND don't trust Stephenson to take over next year.
yup. Once again, Stephenson flashed in-game ability, and was one of the most athletic tackles at the combine last yr. He would be among the top 3 most athletic tackles in the combine this yr too.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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My Chiefs mock:

Round 1 Trade back to CLE for 1st and 2nd rounders
Round 1 OT Eric Fisher
Round 2 OT Kyle Long
Round 3 OT Menelik Watson
Round 4 OT Terron Armstead
Round 5 OT Jordan Mills
Round 6 OT Vinston Painter
Round 7 OT Alex Hurst

You can move them to guard.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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also they could just be working up some sort of trade for Albert, Until he signs that tag, they can take it away. This situation creates all sorts of leverage for the Chiefs.

http://arrowheadaddict.com/2013/03/0...ent-on-albert/
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
My Chiefs mock:

Round 1 Trade back to CLE for 1st and 2nd rounders
Round 1 OT Eric Fisher
Round 2 OT Kyle Long
Round 3 OT Menelik Watson
Round 4 OT Terron Armstead
Round 5 OT Jordan Mills
Round 6 OT Vinston Painter
Round 7 OT Alex Hurst

You can move them to guard.
Solid but not the greatest I've seen. Give us Joeckel at 1 instead of Fisher.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Solid but not the greatest I've seen. Give us Joeckel at 1 instead of Fisher.
Cleveland took Joeckel. Since they already had Joe Thomas and Mitchell Schwartz, they kicked him inside to guard.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
the same crowd who is going "OMG where to playz jOeckel?!" has no problem drafting Geno Smith and sitting him for 3 seasons.
It's not like Alex Smith is Brett Favre or Drew Brees, and those are the only two guys I can think of in the past decade who've kept good first round QBs on the bench for 2+ seasons. If they draft Geno and he's still riding the pine in his third season, he's a bust.

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Old 03-05-2013, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Cleveland took Joeckel. Since they already had Joe Thomas and Mitchell Schwartz, they kicked him inside to guard.
this isn't the first time I've seen you compare Joe Thomas to Brandon Albert. Joe Thomas is 6x Pro Bowl 3x All Pro possible HOF type player. The last award Brandon Albert won was 1st team All ACC in 2006. JOeckel is a possible Thomas. Albert is a JAG+. Arguably way overpaid getting 10 mil a year on the franchise tag. All through this thread I've seen Chief fans talk about how great Albert is... he's not that great. He's above average.

I will say this, whatever the Chiefs do... these moves have made them stronger and less easy to predict on draft day. This is all good stuff.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
the same crowd who is going "OMG where to playz jOeckel?!" has no problem drafting Geno Smith and sitting him for 3 seasons.
1. Alex Smith is under contract for 2013 and 2014 only as of now.
2. For RG3 and Cousins redskins gave up draft picks: 2012 1st round, 2012 2nd round, 2012 fourth round, 2013 first round, 2014 first round.

If the chiefs drafted Geno Smith, than the overall compensation (at most) for Smith and Smith would be: 2013 1st, 2013 2nd, 2014 2nd.

So on a draft pick standpoint the chiefs would give up less than the Redskins did for their qbs. Chiefs would be paying more on Qb contract than the redskins, but it isnt cost prohibitive (#1 pick gets 4yrs ~$22million, Alex Smith 2yrs ~$16million). Essentially the chiefs would be paying less than $15million/yr at the QB position for the next 2yrs.

That gives the chiefs both depth and upside and options. If Alex Smith does well, he could be flipped to another team.

In anycase this talk is academic since it appears the chiefs are more likely to trade down.

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Old 03-05-2013, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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So now Luke Joeckel has Joe Thomas potential? Really?
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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this isn't the first time I've seen you compare Joe Thomas to Brandon Albert. Joe Thomas is 6x Pro Bowl 3x All Pro possible HOF type player. The last award Brandon Albert won was 1st team All ACC in 2006. JOeckel is a possible Thomas. Albert is a JAG+. Arguably way overpaid getting 10 mil a year on the franchise tag. All through this thread I've seen Chief fans talk about how great Albert is... he's not that great. He's above average.

I will say this, whatever the Chiefs do... these moves have made them stronger and less easy to predict on draft day. This is all good stuff.
I'll never understand what people outside of KC's obsession is with always projecting offensive linemen to the Chiefs.

Yeah, I know Ogden played guard for a brief stint when he first entered the league. So, yeah, technically, you can draft Joeckel and play him at guard for a year, etc. But, does that really make the team better? That's debateable. Again, the Chiefs have invested heavily on their offensive line in the draft:

Branden Albert - 1st rounder
Jeff Allen - 2nd rounder
Rodney Hudson - 2nd rounder
Jon Asamoah - 3rd rounder
Donald Stevenson - 3rd rounder
Eric Winston - former 3rd rounder by the Texans signed as a UFA for the Chiefs.

Every single team in this league can get better on their offensive line. Even the 49ers could use an upgrade someplace on their offensive line. But at some point you have to look at what you have invested in a position or position group and determine whether or not if what you have is "good enough" to get the job done. Especially when you start weighing that against where you are deficient someplace else. The Chiefs have a fairly young and ascending offensive line. Can it get better? Sure, but you can make that argument with practically every offensive line in the league.

For me, even with Branden Albert on a 1 year franchise deal, Joeckel still doesn't make a lot of sense. Branden Albert is a player who only allowed 1 sack last year on a team that NEVER held a lead in any game until quite literally the midway point of the season. Meaning this was a team that was always fighting uphill. And he only allowed 1 sack (to John Abraham in the season opener).

So you have to ask, is the Chiefs' offensive line "good enough" to get the job done? I think it is. Especially considering their investments there compared to other deficiencies.

Having said that, if it makes you feel better and as much as the thought baffles me, the pick will probably still be Joeckel.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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So you have to ask, is the Chiefs' offensive line "good enough" to get the job done? I think it is. Especially considering their investments there compared to other deficiencies.

Having said that, if it makes you feel better and as much as the thought baffles me, the pick will probably still be Joeckel.
I agree that the Chiefs don't NEED an OT but that's the BAP this year. If the BAP was a QB or whatever it would be a different equation.

btw more on the Chiefs possibly recinding the tag, from Florio (apparently Andy's done it before

Quote:
If not, the players who have received the franchise tenders but who wonít be signing them any time soon need to worry about something that hasnít happened in eight years: A team rescinding the tag.

Chiefs left tackle Branden Albert should be specifically concerned about that. After all, his new head coach, Andy Reid, did it twice in Philly, to defensive tackle Corey Simon in 2005 and to linebacker Jeremiah Trotter three years earlier. If/when the Chiefs take left tackle Luke Joeckel with the first pick in the 2013 draft, Albert may want to quickly put pen to paper for his $9.828 million salary, or the chance to do so may permanently evaporate.

Then, he would end up on the open market in May, long after the big money has flowed for the year.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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So now Luke Joeckel has Joe Thomas potential? Really?
i've read scouts saying he's better than Matt Kalil last year. So yeah. He's got multiple pro bowl/all-pro type of potential. Which Albert doesn't have.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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i've read scouts saying he's better than Matt Kalil last year. So yeah. He's got multiple pro bowl/all-pro type of potential. Which Albert doesn't have.
If the scout you read was Matt Miller I'm going to laugh. Joeckel isn't half the prospect Joe Thomas was. This is just getting ridiculous.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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That surprises me that the Chiefs would pay Albert that much, given the extensiveness of his back injury. This tells me the Chiefs want to trade down. I doubt anyone bites, but we will have to see. The Cardinals could bite and take a tackle, but they might be the only team. The Browns don't need a tackle and they can get a pass rusher at 6. The Lions could be a surprise team, but who knows.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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I donít think thereís a convincing argument that can be made for drafting Luke Joeckel or Eric Fisher with the first overall pick and then kicking them inside to left guard. Not a single one. You donít convert a coveted tackle prospect. Itís a mismanagement of skill set. You wonít find a whole lot of offensive line coaches that are eager to teach the same person two different sets of blocking techniques, landmarks, responsibilities, etc.

In the end, if the Chiefs want a guard, draft Chance Warmack or Jonathan Cooper. If the Chiefs want insurance at left tackle because the likelihood of Brandon Albert re-singing long-term appears bleak, draft the preferred tackle and trade the disgruntled one to recoup some value that was lost in the Alex Smith trade. Those are their two options. And, considering their recent investments along the interior, I donít even think a guard is plausible. Given their insistence in Smith as their starting quarterback, it is clear the Chiefs are committed to competing now. That demands improvements to their football team. The Chiefs surrendered a valuable selection in a prime area of the draft. The first overall pick needs to have impact potential. Drafting a peripheral lineman doesnít bring that into the fold.

Quarterback is much of the same. If the new regime is all-in on win-now, a second quarterback does nothing for them. Stashing a mid-round project behind Smith for a few seasons is far likelier.

Acquiring weapons for Smith will be one of their highest priorities, but how much does the organization love Cordarrelle Patterson? Heís a risk-reward receiver. More explosive as a runner than as a receiver at this point.

Star Lotulelei could fill an identified need as a 3-4 defensive lineman, and Reid loves drafting along the lines, but the medical either blocks or clears him. No other lineman fits the potential profile.

As discussed, Dee Milliner isnít worth it.

At this point, considering the lack of clear-cut choices, Iíll throw out Dion Jordan as a legitimate dark horse. Youíre set with Tamba Hali and Justin Houston at outside linebacker, sure, but adding to a stable of pass rushers is far from wasteful. And he could still fill a need for the Chiefs elsewhere. Heís got a versatile skill set. Jordan could step into that hole in the middle next to Derrick Johnson and prove to be a creative, unique choice. Heís got salivating potential as a blitzer, sideline-to-sideline range, and coverage upside. Itís not ideal, but itís much better than some of these alternatives.

With regard to their signings and trade down scenarios, I still donít believe the Chiefs have put themselves in a power position. Yeah, theyíre flexible, but theyíre still only drafting one player on April 25th. They want Joeckel? Fine. Iíll hold out for Fisher. They want Milliner? All right. Iíll grab either Rhodes or Trufant. The early value is weak. Why would I pay the premium when Iím not getting the pay-off? Whatís my incentive to trade picks in the depth of the draft when Iím getting a fairly similar player in return? None. I need a dynamic talent if Iím giving up those picks.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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I would laugh if this whole process comes full circle and Barkley goes #1. I wouldn't completely rule it out either. It sounds ridiculous but you can make a case that any player at #1 would be a ridiculous pick for the Chiefs.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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With Star's heart issue, it's Shariff Floyd. And it's going to be one of the most compelling draft stories given his background.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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I don't love Floyd in the 3-4. It screams Dorsey all over again. Best fit in a 4-3, but hey, we can try him out at 3-4 end!

No thanks. Take Star, who I see as a better fit for this scheme.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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If the scout you read was Matt Miller I'm going to laugh. Joeckel isn't half the prospect Joe Thomas was. This is just getting ridiculous.
it was an anon scout and you are half right. not quite a Joe Thomas. But better than Kalil *who made the Pro Bowl as a rookie*. He also says it's a tough year to be at 1.

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"He's better than (Minnesota's) Matt Kalil," one scout said. "He's not yet (Cleveland's) Joe Thomas." Benefited from Aggies' quick-release passing game. "He's not a Hall of Famer, a flat-out Walter Jones type," another scout said. "But he's got size, he's athletic and he's only going to get better. He can play left tackle tomorrow. With this draft, you may see him go No. 1 (overall). I don't think there's a premier left tackle in the draft. There's not a quarterback, not a running back, not a receiver."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...192799541.html
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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That scout said that Luke Joeckel is not a premier LT. What makes you think he's better than Albert again?
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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pro bowls mean absolutely nothing. just a total side argument that always grinds my gears. It's tops the list of most useless fact. QBR is slightly behind it
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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pro bowls mean absolutely nothing. just a total side argument that always grinds my gears. It's tops the list of most useless fact. QBR is slightly behind it
Are you trying to tell me that Jay Ratliff isn't just as good as Haloti Ngata or Justin Smith?!?
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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pro bowls mean absolutely nothing. just a total side argument that always grinds my gears. It's tops the list of most useless fact. QBR is slightly behind it
what about the AP All Pro team. a guy making that team is usually awesome.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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That scout said that Luke Joeckel is not a premier LT. What makes you think he's better than Albert again?
Because he's 8 years younger with a healthy back, for starters. Also there's no premier anything at the top, it's just a crap year. if the Chiefs could work a trade down that would be ideal. If not OT is the likely BAP. (Getting mad at me doesn't change the grades)
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