Week 5 Discussion Thread. - Page 21

Raiderz4Life · 10-05-2012, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Sorry, but you're like 13. I don't take your opinion seriously.

This is a fallacy.

y.f.s. · 10-05-2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Thank you. Most ppl on here don't have a clue about the system we run. I'm not saying Eli is never at fault, but you're gonna have INTS with this system, it comes with the territory. I used to hate it but I've grown to love it. It gives you a chance vs any defense. And that versatility is priceless.

Here's a .pdf file of Coughlin's playbook in Jacksonville. So much Run and Shoot. Switch Smash ftw.

http://fastandfuriousfootball.com/wp...le_Jaguars.pdf

NY+Giants=NYG · 10-05-2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

Here's a .pdf file of Coughlin's playbook in Jacksonville. So much Run and Shoot. Switch Smash ftw.

http://fastandfuriousfootball.com/wp...le_Jaguars.pdf

Well that and Gilbride took over as OC once we fired Hufangel. He is MR. Run and Shoot.

abaddon41_80 · 10-05-2012, 07:11 PM

If people are going to say Eli is elite you have to say that Big Ben is as well, even though he had a down year last season

bearsfan_51 · 10-05-2012, 07:11 PM

I forgot all about Ron Mexico....****.

NY+Giants=NYG · 10-05-2012, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

I forgot all about Ron Mexico....****.

Haha! Yeah that was a funny one back then. I remember people ripping on him for that.

bigbluedefense · 10-05-2012, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

Here's a .pdf file of Coughlin's playbook in Jacksonville. So much Run and Shoot. Switch Smash ftw.

http://fastandfuriousfootball.com/wp...le_Jaguars.pdf

It's an offense that requires patience bc it takes awhile to master, but once your qb has it down, it really is a great offense. It has an answer for every coverage, and in today's rules, you can take serious advantage of that. The tough part is finding smart wide receivers who also have athletic ability.

NY+Giants=NYG · 10-05-2012, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

It's an offense that requires patience bc it takes awhile to master, but once your qb has it down, it really is a great offense. It has an answer for every coverage, and in today's rules, you can take serious advantage of that. The tough part is finding smart wide receivers who also have athletic ability.

That playbook I could not find it. But Gilbride's play book has a lot obviously.

TitanHope · 10-05-2012, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

You also have the issue of the run-and-shoot concepts they run, and how turnover inducing that offense can be if everyone is not on the same page and seeing the same things.

If I'm not mistaken, the option-routes are what held back Mario Manningham, and it's doing the same to Damian Williams as well.

bigbluedefense · 10-05-2012, 07:24 PM

To be clear, almost every offense has options in it, but the degree of options, how many players are running options, and when you run options varies. Gilbride runs the purest form of run n shoot in the league. But variations are also run by NE and Buffalo. Both of whom can get away with avg wr talent bc of it. That's what I like about this offense.

NY+Giants=NYG · 10-05-2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanHope

If I'm not mistaken, the option-routes are what held back Mario Manningham, and it's doing the same to Damian Williams as well.

Yup. Either players get it and do VERY well, or don't and see the field later on. Mario had big play ability which basically got him on the field. However, he'd have games where Eli throws left, and Mario is not in the tv frame because he is going in the opposite direction. An Example of this would be the 49ers regular season game last year.

Victor Cruz almost got beat out by Brandon Stokley and finally Cruz got his stuff together.

I can't stand that part of our system, but when it works it's amazing, it's just the learning curve is so hard.

FUNBUNCHER · 10-05-2012, 08:26 PM

The Giants haven't been a dominant run team for years, almost since Tiki retired.
Meh, Eli is elite. Winning isn't overrated in the NFL which is why no one cares if Brees breaks Unitas' consecutive touchdown record this weekend if the Saints still lose.

Football isn't a stat sport like baseball. Very few fans can recite NFL stats, but everyone knows how many SBs a QB has won.

Which player could the Giants least afford to lose on their recent SB teams??
Elisha.

INTs are way overrated btw.
If the Giants had a 1500 yard rusher now, Eli would never throw more than 10 INTs in any season.

Also, Eli's intangibles are some of the best in the game for his position.
I don't think any starting NFL QB is mentally tougher than he is.
If Eli is the QB of the Packers last year, they don't get beat at home by the NYG.

y.f.s. · 10-05-2012, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

The Giants haven't been a dominant run team for years, almost since Tiki retired.

They still were a couple years after. Been Eli's offense since 2009 or
Meh, Eli is elite. Winning isn't overrated in the NFL which is why no one cares if Brees breaks Unitas' consecutive touchdown record this weekend if the Saints still lose.

Football isn't a stat sport like baseball. Very few fans can recite NFL stats, but everyone knows how many SBs a QB has won.[/b]

Which player could the Giants least afford to lose on their recent SB teams??
Elisha.

INTs are way overrated btw.
If the Giants had a 1500 yard rusher now, Eli would never throw more than 10 INTs in any season.

Also, Eli's intangibles are some of the best in the game for his position.
I don't think any starting NFL QB is mentally tougher than he is.
If Eli is the QB of the Packers last year, they don't get beat at home by the NYG.

How many yards a guy throws for or Superbowls won aren't really stats IMO. It's trivia.

descendency · 10-05-2012, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanHope

If I'm not mistaken, the option-routes are what held back Mario Manningham, and it's doing the same to Damian Williams as well.

That's the biggest change between the college and the NFL. Having to figure out what a defense is in and where you should take your route because of it.

brat316 · 10-05-2012, 08:46 PM

Ben rothlisberger 2 accused rapes. Stats or Triva?

Giantsfan1080 · 10-05-2012, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaarat316

Ben rothlisberger 2 accused rapes. Stats or Triva?

Stats for sure.

TitanHope · 10-05-2012, 08:52 PM

You're not a franchise rapist until you rape three people.

bearsfan_51 · 10-05-2012, 08:55 PM

"I think that just as athletes you've got to be careful where you are and what you're doing," Manning said Thursday. "You try to be conscious of it. But also, if you want to have fun - you're still a person and you have a right to enjoy yourself."

-Eli Manning supports rape.

brat316 · 10-05-2012, 08:59 PM

Accused rapes, lets get that straight. Innocent till proven guilty, they just want his money.

NY+Giants=NYG · 10-05-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

How many yards a guy throws for or Superbowls won aren't really stats IMO. It's trivia.

Well the 2nd part, SBs won is the stat or trivia as you call it that gets you in the HOF. So personally, I consider that a stat, a big one, which helps in the HOF talk.

y.f.s. · 10-05-2012, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG

Well the 2nd part, SBs won is the stat or trivia as you call it that gets you in the HOF. So personally, I consider that a stat, a big one, which helps in the HOF talk.

I understand the appeal to authority the HOF has, but the voting process pretty much shows that it's full of inherent human biases. IMO, the HOF is as much about sportswriter politics and preserving the historical narrative of Pro Football as it is a 100% meritocratic recognization of the best players in league history.

BTW, I'm not sure Superbowl success is as important to the voters as overall postseason impact. But again, this goes back to narrative and whether what's important for the HOF should be the definition of greatness, so to speak.

fenikz · 10-05-2012, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaarat316

Accused rapes, lets get that straight. Innocent till proven guilty, they just want his money.

and he paid them the money, an innocent man would want his name cleared

he is a rapist

brat316 · 10-05-2012, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz

and he paid them the money, an innocent man would want his name cleared

he is a rapist

yeah its pretty obvious, with that mug. I"m sure he paid the girl that married him. I ain't sayin she a gold digger, but she ain't messing with no broke rapist.

NY+Giants=NYG · 10-05-2012, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

I understand the appeal to authority the HOF has, but the voting process pretty much shows that it's full of inherent human biases. IMO, the HOF is as much about sportswriter politics and preserving the historical narrative of Pro Football as it is a 100% meritocratic recognization of the best players in league history.

BTW, I'm not sure Superbowl success is as important to the voters as overall postseason impact. But again, this goes back to narrative and whether what's important for the HOF should be the definition of greatness, so to speak.

The HOF voting process, right or wrong, isn't what I am saying. It's that stat, SB win, for a HC and QB means something. They say you play the game to win the coveted SB. Well, if you win, and win a bunch you go to the sport's immortal realm, which is the HOF.

I think it can be both, post season impact, as well as eventually winning a SB, or en route to a SB win. All that gets added to the player's resume, and the voters look at that. Again, whether it's good or bad, I am not saying, but the SB win is important stat. You can call it trivia, that's fine, it very well could be trivia. But that trivia or stat is important for this sport and can get you into football heaven in Canton.

Most QBs with more than 1 SB win get into the HOF except for Jim Plunkett. It can be used as trivia or a stat or what not. But winning a SB is pretty damn important either way for the HOF.

Rosebud · 10-06-2012, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

I never said I was. But it matters to me a lot more that something as obviously team-based as win-loss record.

Eli throws an interception every 33 times he throws the ball. That number hasn't improved one bit as he's matured in his career (it's actually slightly worse over the last 2 1/2 seasons). That's almost double the rate of Rodgers.

Some of those interceptions are situationally dependent, but those situations aren't any more likely to happen to Eli as they are to anyone else. The Giants don't push the ball down the field with any more frequency than most teams, and they typically have a stronger running game and defense to play with.

Eli just turns the ball over too much to be considered elite in my book. It's not complicated, no matter how much you want to make this something it isn't.

No offense brah, but the **** are you talking about? The giants running game has been **** for a while now and they do push the ball further down the field than most teams, all while having the most complex routes in the NFL. So literally the entire context you've mentioned is wrong for how often Eli throws picks.