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Old 10-17-2012, 11:47 AM    (permalink
fear the elf
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Why don't we give him a full season before we talk about how we have to replace him in the draft? I think that's reasonable.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Why don't we give him a full season before we talk about how we have to replace him in the draft? I think that's reasonable.
Also, RB's are normally on the way down at the age of 30, which would make Richardson 30 and Weeden about 37. Browns window should be about 4 or 5 years with those 2 starting in about 2014. We are so young right now but with 2 more solid drafts and some free agents who knows what this team could be. We have some young talent just lack a lot of experience.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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That's the thing, would you rather just "shoot for being pretty good" for like, 3 years then he retires? Or take your prospect with potential to be great?

I'm not big on settling for mediocrity but that's just me. He needs to go if we want to be great, I think.

If we pass on Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson for ******* Mingo or Jarvis Jones or something I'm going to go buy a rope and find a tree with a high, sturdy branch.
Like I said, if there is an elite QB prospect there in the draft, with the new regime I don't see them passing on one considering Weeden's age. But with Weeden on this team they are probably set at QB for at least a few years, so there is no rush to trade the farm to move up and get one or reach for a guy in desperation.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Nah. Weeden still sucks n needs to be replaced. If they get a chance to replace him with a quality prospect, any new management would be complete morons not to.
your argument: he sucks because he is 29 and was drafted in the first round.

there are plenty of reasons you can give to support your argument that would be legitimate, like how he's thrown too many interceptions, questions about how he handles pressure from a pass rush, etc.

none of these issues are really black and white for a guy who has played 6 games in the nfl, which is why it is obviously more reasonable to make the decision ten games from now instead of coming to some biased decision right now because you didn't like the draft pick. does his four interception game in his nfl debut really have much of a bearing on his career outlook if he continues to show improvement? really you need more of a sample size to determine how he is going to handle a heavy pass rush, and believe it or not there is always a chance he will improve in that area. i'm not saying whether he will or not, just that he has done nothing to deserve a demotion.

on the issue of geno smith, or whatever the quarterback de jour is right now, what makes anyone so sure that they are a so-called "franchise" quarterback? there is no certainty that any of the guys at the top will be any better than weeden is, i would rather they try to build a good team before they start worrying about whether they have some completely hypothetical shot at a "super bowl". can you definitively say that weeden will be too much of a liability for this team to achieve some arbitrary distinction of suddenly being a "contender", or is that just hogwash? the quarterbacks to play in the super bowl since 2000 are: eli, brady, rodgers, roethlisberger, brees, peyton, warner, grossman, hasselbeck, mcnabb, delhomme, johnson, gannon, dilfer. some were first round picks, some weren't, but this idea that you have to get the #1 guy on mel kiper's big board to be a legitimate team is pretty silly. this isn't a case for weeden, just a case for not mortgaging the future of the franchise on spending yet another first round pick on offense when you have one of the worst defenses in the league. especially when you figure that they already used a second rounder on a receiver in the supplemental draft.

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Old 10-17-2012, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Nah Weeden's problem is he's got just a good enough arm, doesn't move around in the pocket all that well and doesn't yet know how to read defenses very well. He's competent if you can protect him and let him get into a rhythm with receivers. That just doesn't add up to a guy that's going to take you care in the playoffs anytime soon, but with his age it has to be soon, cause in a few years that good enough arm strength is going to start dropping, he's feet are going to start slowing down and he's gunna have to be replaced. That's why The Browns would be dumb to pass on a franchise QB if they get a high enough pick to draft one. Then they'll at least have time to bolster their defense and receiving corps and will having a pretty solid backup in case the franchise guy gets hurt.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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The only problem with Weedon is his age. If it takes him 4 years to get really solid, he will be 34 and at the end of his peak years. He's not completely healthy with an old injury from baseball which may well shorten his career in the long run.
Thank God Holmgren got the boot, he was caught up in the past and drafted that way. He completely blew the RG111 offer to St. Louis by trying to low ball them so they took Washington's offer and unless the Browns find a real franchise QB, it will be a decade before the team can compete. The longer they stick with Weedon, the longer the losing will continue.
Let's hope the new owner insists that the man making the decisions on draft day, drafts a QB if one is available when they pick.

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Old 10-18-2012, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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There are some rumors out there that the Browns are going to target Nick Saban as their new coach. Porbably not going to happen, but that's the rumor.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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There are some rumors out there that the Browns are going to target Nick Saban as their new coach. Porbably not going to happen, but that's the rumor.
Saban left the NFL because he couldn't get it done there. He wasn't fired, he walked out. The biggest thing he brings to the table is the ability to recruit, which is useless in the NFL. It doesn't make sense for him to go back.

If he stays at Alabama, he could go down as the greatest college football coach of all time with more championships that he knows what to do with. And hell, if he wants more money, he should just ask Alabama for it. They'd give it to him to keep him there.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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Hmm, IDK. I gotta think for a guy as fiery, competitive, and with as big of an ego as Saban has, it's kind of eating at him to try and accomplish something in the NFL. Especially if he wins another NC this season like Bama probably will. What's left to accomplish there? Especially if the NFL gives him a pay raise.

As a Vol fan I hope it happens. Haslam would have to go down as the greatest booster ever.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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There are some rumors out there that the Browns are going to target Nick Saban as their new coach. Porbably not going to happen, but that's the rumor.
It would probably cost twice the largest contract in NFL history for a coach. I don't see Saban trying again unless the money is WAY too good. He just got a new contract in March. He is making $5.3 million dollars this year. Belichick currently makes about $7.5 million a year. I don't 2-3 extra million a year is worth the embarrassment Saban had in the pros and will have if he fails again.

Add on that Cleveland isn't exactly the best place to coach either. New ownership helps, but still a tough place to draw FAs, cold weather outdoors, rebuilding team. I'd be VERY surprised if Saban somehow ends up there
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Saban inherited a playoff caliber team in Miami and began tearing it down to suit his ego after he arrived, then quit on them. They went 1 -15 after that.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Saban inherited a playoff caliber team in Miami and began tearing it down to suit his ego after he arrived, then quit on them. They went 1 -15 after that.
I think you've been a Browns fan too long and forget what a "playoff caliber team" really is.

Saban inherited a team that went 4-12 the year before, had a top 5 pick (used on Ronnie Brown) and had Gus Frerotte and Sage Rosenfels at QB.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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I think you've been a Browns fan too long and forget what a "playoff caliber team" really is.

Saban inherited a team that went 4-12 the year before, had a top 5 pick (used on Ronnie Brown) and had Gus Frerotte and Sage Rosenfels at QB.
Yeah, but 10-6 the year before. 9-7 and 11-5 before that. That 4-12 season was when Ricky suddenly up and quit on them.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, but 10-6 the year before. 9-7 and 11-5 before that. That 4-12 season was when Ricky suddenly up and quit on them.
And they weren't a playoff team at 10-6 and 9-7 still. Saying Saban took over a good team is a big overstatement.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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And they weren't a playoff team at 10-6 and 9-7 still. Saying Saban took over a good team is a big overstatement.
Well.. a whole lot better team then when he quit on it. EDIT And I said, playoff caliber. A winning record at least gives you a shot.
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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We need to get that bastard Cowher out of retirement, but a dome on the stadium and get some FREEEEEEEEEEE ASIANS
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Saban left the NFL because he couldn't get it done there. He wasn't fired, he walked out. The biggest thing he brings to the table is the ability to recruit, which is useless in the NFL. It doesn't make sense for him to go back.

If he stays at Alabama, he could go down as the greatest college football coach of all time with more championships that he knows what to do with. And hell, if he wants more money, he should just ask Alabama for it. They'd give it to him to keep him there.
Nick Saban didn't leave the NFL because he "couldn't get it done", he left because he enjoyed the college game more and was offered a cushy position at an SEC program. I agree that he will stay at Alabama, but he could have easily been a successful NFL coach with a little bit of time. The Dolphins improved from 4-12 to 9-7 in his first year and despite struggling in their second season (6-10), they looked great in comparison to what happened once Cam Cameron took over and went 1-15.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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Well.. a whole lot better team then when he quit on it. EDIT And I said, playoff caliber. A winning record at least gives you a shot.
He inherited this:

Offensive starters: A.J. Feeley, Sammy Morris, Marty Booker, Chris Chambers, Donald Lee, Damion McIntosh, Jeno James, Seth McKinney, Taylor Whitley, John St. Clair

Defensive starters: David Bowens, Bryan Robinson, Jeff Zgonina, Jason Taylor, Junior Seau, Zach Thomas, Morlon Greenwood, Patrick Surtrain, Sam Madison, Arturo Freeman, Sammy Knight

There are only five or six good players on that entire team, and none aside from Chris Chambers on offense.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:30 PM    (permalink
SolidGold
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Saban left the pro game because he couldn't make it as a pro coach - he didn't have the same passion as he did for the college game. Once the high profile Alabama job came available he chose that over the NFL Gig.

He had a lot of control over that Dolphins roster - He also chose Culpepper over Brees which turned out to be a huge mistake. He built that team and had alot of control over personnel decisions. Being a control freak it must of frustrated him to not have the same type of control over the players as he would at the college level. Perhaps seeing Haurbaugh's and Caroll's success in the NFL might sway him to try again.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:36 PM    (permalink
Brown Leader
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He inherited this:

Offensive starters: A.J. Feeley, Sammy Morris, Marty Booker, Chris Chambers, Donald Lee, Damion McIntosh, Jeno James, Seth McKinney, Taylor Whitley, John St. Clair

Defensive starters: David Bowens, Bryan Robinson, Jeff Zgonina, Jason Taylor, Junior Seau, Zach Thomas, Morlon Greenwood, Patrick Surtrain, Sam Madison, Arturo Freeman, Sammy Knight

There are only five or six good players on that entire team, and none aside from Chris Chambers on offense.
;/ There's more then 5-6 good players starting on the defense alone. On offense, Randy McMichael, Marty Booker, Chris Chambers, Rob Konrad were very solid players. And some little rookie named Welker was also on the team. In any event, Wannstedt went 41 -23 with that squad before the 04' season. The team was built around Ricky and didn't compensate when he went crazy.
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....ask Brandon Weeden.
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Saban left the pro game because he couldn't make it as a pro coach
Saban left the pro game to get paid 8 million a year while coaching 10 new first rounders a year, instead of 1.
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Banner is going to clean house from top-down. With Holmgren gone, I would be surprised if Heckert (and Shurmur) didnít follow him. As far as I understand it, Heckert and Banner had a chilled relationship in Philadelphia and nothing has indicated that itís thawed. An Eagles fan might know more about that. Besides, new regimes want to insert their own people. Heckert has done an underappreciated job at turning over the roster he was handed. I wouldnít mind retaining him as general manager, but heís not worth a power struggle. This team needs unified leadership, an organizational vision, and an undeviating commitment to achieving that vision. From the ownership box to the front office to the coaches to the roster to the support staff. Thatís what revitalizes this franchise.

As for the hire of Banner, itís been rumored for quite some time. From what I can tell, heís a sharp businessman, a cap curator, and a ruthless negotiator. The last part worries me some. You need to protect assets and preserve cap space in the NFL and heís got an appreciation for that. But it seems there were times in Philadelphia where Banner never even sought to find common ground and developed a reputation as one of the most abrasive executives in the league. To where agents, other executives, and co-workers avoided him altogether. If heís the point man in Cleveland during negotiations, itís a potential problem. Even among rival executives, thereís a certain respect and trust threshold that needs to be met.

As for the reported interest in Saban, I wouldnít hate it. I have little doubt that Saban can coach in the NFL. In fact, most of his core principles are NFL principles. He demands discipline. He demands situational intelligence. He demands meticulous attention to detail. He demands one-on-one toughness. He demands these things and he coaches to them. In the NFL, where the talent gap and margin for error is thin, those principles are a reliable foundation to build upon. And, scheme-wise, his defenses at ĎBama have an NFL skeleton. Plus, his inside-out approach to defending is conventional. Heís not radicalizing or reinventing the game.

Now, the question becomes whether he leaves Tuscaloosa. First, itís going to take a handsome contract to pull him from the Tide. But, looking past that, Saban is an aspirational and motivated coach. He wants to compete. He wants to grind. Itís not absurd to suggest that he might want to test himself in the NFL again. He might feel as though heís got some unfinished business there. Might want challenging over comfortable. If the Dolphins give Drew Brees a clean bill of health, and he signs with Miami, the NFL could look quite different. Again, we donít know Sabanís exact feelings on the subject. Iím not sold that heís a surefire college lifer though.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:27 AM    (permalink
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Saban has a similar situation to (Jim) Harbaugh at Stanford. His football knowledge and schematic ability is far too great for the college game.

But if I were Cleveland, I wouldn't be sure I want a Nick Saban. Not only is he one of the people that will lie to your face, but he's also one of those guys that wants to play defense, which the NFL seems to not like at the moment.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:38 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, that statement is old. Saban never left the NFL because he couldnt hack it. He only left because he likes the college game more. He wasnt a bust in the NFL like people say he was.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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