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Old 10-22-2012, 08:00 AM    (permalink
MetSox17
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Not to mention the argument for allowing more 'physical' play by the defense. The rules that have been implemented are put there to minimize the physical toll the game takes on a human body. If you want the NFL to be held accountable, they're gonna take the steps necessary to minimize any more liability on their part.

It's perfectly reasonable to want the NFL to pay and be responsible for the health concerns dealing with ex players, but if that's the case you're gonna end up with a softer game.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:10 AM    (permalink
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The retired players who are suing the league are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Simple as that.

We still have players admitting that they will hide concussions and will intentionally do poorly on the baseline testing so even if they are tested, they won't look like they've had a concussion.

Now, on the other side of the coin, the NFL needs to do more. They are being extremely hypocritical in regards to protecting they players. They make these rule changes, but still haven't tested for and standardized the safest equipment such as helmets.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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Thereís no reason for defensive holding. It just serves the NFLís current mandate for offense-oriented football because that generates their revenue. It doesnít protect the long-term health of defensive backs or receivers. What individual factor is cited most often in cases of concussions? The speed of the game. The NFL is operating at a breakneck pace right now. And while modern athletes are more advanced than their predecessors, the institution of defensive holding has done nothing to impede the speed of the game. Youíre seeing receivers build up a tremendous amount of speed because cornerbacks canít do much within the rules to slow them down. That lends itself to the kind of jaw-dropping, bone-jarring open-field collisions the NFL is attempting to avoid. You mean to tell me that bigger, stronger, and faster athletes are hitting each other harder because itís illegal to impede acceleration?

Gee, color me surprised.

The NFL isnít as concerned about long-term health as it is about maintaining the appearance that itís concerned about long-term health.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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And a third one just for fun:

3.) If a receiver motions for a flag, HE gets the flag called on him for unsportsmanlike conduct. Years of seeing the Colts receivers in the early-mid 2000s absolutely soured me on this. It really seemed as if the ball was incomplete for any reason, the nearest Colt to it was motioning for a flag. **** that. Just go **** yourself receiver. Little ******* midgets ruining the game because you can't get separation against against physical corners.
That is actually a fantastic idea. Receivers are becoming as bad as soccer players with their overacting and pleas for calls. The NFL needs to cut that off soon or it will never end.

With this offensive revolution, I'm wondering what the Hall of Fame is going to do. Take Philip Rivers. If he plays more years after this season (and he could probably play even more), he'll end up with around 51,000 yards and 335 TDs. When he retires, he'll likely be 7th all time in those categories behind Favre, Peyton, Brady, Marino, Brees, and probably Eli. Hall of Fame numbers? Definitely. But is Rivers a Hall of Famer? Absolutely not.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin. †One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one. †Awesome. †Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks.†
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:48 AM    (permalink
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Hah. So if they "knew" the risks going in that means that the NFL should not be held at least partially accountable? A big logical fallacy. Just because you MAY (or in this case, may not) know the risks to something doesn't mean the NFL can't be held accountable. It is only recently the NFL has acknowledged and stepped up their efforts to treat concussions.
*shrug* Players get paid an absurd amount of money because they have skills very few people on this planet have which attract viewers, but also because they take on massive risks to their future health.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:53 AM    (permalink
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That is actually a fantastic idea. Receivers are becoming as bad as soccer players with their overacting and pleas for calls. The NFL needs to cut that off soon or it will never end.

With this offensive revolution, I'm wondering what the Hall of Fame is going to do. Take Philip Rivers. If he plays more years after this season (and he could probably play even more), he'll end up with around 51,000 yards and 335 TDs. When he retires, he'll likely be 7th all time in those categories behind Favre, Peyton, Brady, Marino, Brees, and probably Eli. Hall of Fame numbers? Definitely. But is Rivers a Hall of Famer? Absolutely not.
We're already seeing the effect this is having on the HoF with guys like Cris Carter. Was there a person around who didn't think he'd be a shoo-in for the HoF when he retired?

But a decades long bias against WRs plus the fact that so many receivers are now exploding with numbers never seen before is keeping him out. I think this trend is only going to continue and the first guys to be punished are the ones currently waiting to get in.

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*shrug* Players get paid an absurd amount of money because they have skills very few people on this planet have which attract viewers, but also because they take on massive risks to their future health.
I think about it like this:

If I were given an opportunity to make millions of dollars and retire in my 30s, or at minimum, make a few hundred thousand for a couple of years, with the downside of having potential health problems later in life, would I do it?

Hell ************* yes I would do it. Are you kidding me? When the alternative is to work work 40 hours a week for the next 50 years of my life while making in a year what some of these guys make in the first quarter of game 1 of the season, you bet your ass I would do it.

Any of us would.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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I think about it like this:

If I were given an opportunity to make millions of dollars and retire in my 30s, or at minimum, make a few hundred thousand for a couple of years, with the downside of having potential health problems later in life, would I do it?

Hell ************* yes I would do it. Are you kidding me? When the alternative is to work work 40 hours a week for the next 50 years of my life while making in a year what some of these guys make in the first quarter of game 1 of the season, you bet your ass I would do it.

Any of us would.
Exactly, yes it would suck unbelievably to have trouble walking or tying my shoes after retiring, but that's a risk that I think NFL players are more than sufficiently rewarded for. There's enough information out there that any player who doesn't fully understand the risks is either medically tarded or is just too lazy to look into. With that information in place it is their decision to take the risk. It'd be different if players still got paid so little that they had to take on second jobs in the offseason and the information weren't available, but it is now, so the players are the ones who should be held accountable for their decision.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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Th steroids issue that has been swept under the rug in the NFL is also a hypocritical issue on both sides.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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Th steroids issue that has been swept under the rug in the NFL is also a hypocritical issue on both sides.
How about the fact that there was supposed to be HGH testing according to the CBA, but the NFLPA drug their feet in deciding who should do the testing and how?

I think they did it to give everyone who was using time to stop. I know we always rolled our eyes at those rumors that would pop up from time to time from "an anonymous source" saying that over half the players in the league use HGH or something ridiculous like that.

I find it hard to believe that guys who are willing to put their bodies through what NFL players do would be THAT afraid of a needle prick.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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I'd say at least 80% of the NFL is on something.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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i miss the days of ty law stealing Marvin Harrison's lunch money
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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i miss the days of ty law stealing Marvin Harrison's lunch money
His lunch money, his books, his backpack, and his anal virginity. Is it little wonder why, once the rules were changed, the Colts finally got past the Patriots?
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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Imo, the solution to this is to enforce offensive holding as its described. If offensive linemen weren't permitted to tackle pass rushers, offenses would be forced to: run shorter routes, have more blockers, or eat those sacks/QB injuries.

One thing I remember Bill Polian say regarding the rule change for defensive holding is that talented players should be able to display their talent. I believe over the summer there was a thread regarding the true value of a LT. Is Joe Thomas worth his salary when an average LT isn't called for offensive holding and gets the same result?

Regarding concussions and safety equipment, my understanding is that there's not much you can improve. It's not caused directly from a player hitting another player. Its caused when the brain impacts the skull, due to massive change in direction/speed. Concussions happen most often on hits to the head, and players getting tackled have their head hit the ground hard. I don't think it's something equipment can change.

As far as other rules changes, I think if a receiver braces for impact, he should no longer be a defenseless receiver. If a receiver doesn't see a defender coming and gets hit in the head, that should be a penalty. If a receiver sees the defender, ducks his head moving the strike zone at the last second, that shouldn't be a penalty.

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Old 10-22-2012, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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They knew the risk involved when they signed up. Far as being broke, thats their fault for blowing all that cash. Now they're ruined it for the new schoolers.
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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I think about it like this:

If I were given an opportunity to make millions of dollars and retire in my 30s, or at minimum, make a few hundred thousand for a couple of years, with the downside of having potential health problems later in life, would I do it?

Hell ************* yes I would do it. Are you kidding me? When the alternative is to work work 40 hours a week for the next 50 years of my life while making in a year what some of these guys make in the first quarter of game 1 of the season, you bet your ass I would do it.

Any of us would.
Probably. Then again, seeing some of the injuries that these players have acquired after their NFL career is done is quite unsettling sometimes. Especially head injuries. And a lot of the money probably isn't as good as the numbers indicate unless you're a superstar, which is rare among the people that attempt an NFL career, or rather, actually make it to that level. Of course it's still a lot, and it's a good amount to take care of your family as long as you invest it right, which probably isn't as easy as it seems.

Watching that ESPN documentary Broke the other night, it was interesting to note one or two of the individuals that felt a lot more happier and stress free after their playing days were over and they decided to go into business-related careers like finance or car dealership properties and are a lot happier with those 40 hour work weeks instead of what they were making during their playing days.

You really don't know until you have that kind of money, what's it's like and probably how easy it is to mismanage it. Not that that would stop a lot of people from trying of course. Just depends how much you value your health though.
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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His lunch money, his books, his backpack, and his anal virginity. Is it little wonder why, once the rules were changed, the Colts finally got past the Patriots?
I think that had more to do with the dominating defense of the early 2000's in New England finally starting to show it's age and/or key players like Ty Law leaving the franchise.
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Right. I think the NFL has a moral obligation as just people to look out for individual's long-term safety within this sport the best they can, especially when their valuable committees and making them money.
I understand all that and they are partally accountable. Im just providing a fans perspective of who's to ultimately blame for the leagues new babified rule changes.
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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wah freakin wah. It's hard to save money for anybody, but when minimum wage in the league pays over a quarter million a year, I have less than zero sympathy for players failing to manage their finances. Maybe don't go out and spend tens of thousands of dollars to look cool at the club, or on jewelry, or more cars than you have relatives, etc.
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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wah freakin wah. It's hard to save money for anybody, but when minimum wage in the league pays over a quarter million a year, I have less than zero sympathy for players failing to manage their finances. Maybe don't go out and spend tens of thousands of dollars to look cool at the club, or on jewelry, or more cars than you have relatives, etc.
My sentiments exactly. Zero sympathy. Cant blame them for suing, because thats the American mindstate. But from a fans point of view I hate them for ruining the hard-hitting, defense always prevails type of league we used to know and love.
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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wah freakin wah. It's hard to save money for anybody, but when minimum wage in the league pays over a quarter million a year, I have less than zero sympathy for players failing to manage their finances. Maybe don't go out and spend tens of thousands of dollars to look cool at the club, or on jewelry, or more cars than you have relatives, etc.
Sometimes it's not even about that, but investing in businesses that fall flat or dealing with the wrong people. When your financially illiterate, even if you don't spend money on a lot of material goods like jewelry and cars, you can still lose your fortune if you get involved with folks trying to screw you. I think this happened to Mark Brunell and Bernie Kosar who filed for bankruptcy, but if I remember correctly aren't necessarily known for going out to the club and owning a bunch of cars. Maybe. I know both got screwed over in real estate ventures. There are of course a lot of people out there that are just dumb with their money, but at the same time there are probably a decent amount of athletes with small fortunes that have probably tried their best to save their money or invest it correctly, but got screwed over in some fashion. It's a lot different when you have a target on your back and not every situation is the same.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 10-22-2012, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Sometimes it's not even about that, but investing in businesses that fall flat or dealing with the wrong people. When your financially illiterate, even if you don't spend money on a lot of material goods like jewelry and cars, you can still lose your fortune if you get involved with folks trying to screw you. I think this happened to Mark Brunell and Bernie Kosar who filed for bankruptcy, but if I remember correctly aren't necessarily known for going out to the club and owning a bunch of cars. Maybe. I know both got screwed over in real estate ventures. There are of course a lot of people out there that are just dumb with their money, but at the same time there are probably a decent amount of athletes with small fortunes that have probably tried their best to save their money or invest it correctly, but got screwed over in some fashion. It's a lot different when you have a target on your back and not every situation is the same.
Let me try this again. Even if they did get "screwed" as you put it, it doesn' give you the right to go after the same people who put you in that position in the first place and ultimately tarnish something you used to represent.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Let me try this again. Even if they did get "screwed" as you put it, it doesn' give you the right to go after the same people who put you in that position in the first place and ultimately tarnish something you used to represent.
And I was never making that point. So I don't know what you're talking about.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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And I was never making that point. So I don't know what you're talking about.
It just sounds like your trying to place 100% of the blame on the league, when you need to to focus that blame on former players is all.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Sometimes it's not even about that, but investing in businesses that fall flat or dealing with the wrong people. When your financially illiterate, even if you don't spend money on a lot of material goods like jewelry and cars, you can still lose your fortune if you get involved with folks trying to screw you. I think this happened to Mark Brunell and Bernie Kosar who filed for bankruptcy, but if I remember correctly aren't necessarily known for going out to the club and owning a bunch of cars. Maybe. I know both got screwed over in real estate ventures. There are of course a lot of people out there that are just dumb with their money, but at the same time there are probably a decent amount of athletes with small fortunes that have probably tried their best to save their money or invest it correctly, but got screwed over in some fashion. It's a lot different when you have a target on your back and not every situation is the same.
Paying attention to your money is a huge part of not wasting it.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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Paying attention to your money is a huge part of not wasting it.
And I'm sure there are people, not just athletes, that believed they were paying adequate attention to their money before a disaster occurred.

All I'm saying is that every situation isn't the same in regards to athletes going broke.
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