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Old 12-05-2012, 01:53 PM    (permalink
Dr. Gonzo
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
i mean if he goes for guys that are really suspicious anyways, that gives us the chance to not waste lynches. He has chances to kill the mafia. It would also give us someone that is good, which is really important to have. Someone that is proven to be good is a huge asset.
Yup. At this point there are a fair amount of people I am suspicious of so he can certainly help us out if he is smart about it. I still feel Brodeur is a better option but if we do go TH and he turns up good like I think he will we have a fairly good list of people to look into, namely the people who piled on him when he got a couple votes.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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The thing is, i agree he can be dangerous to the town. But we can still kill him if we have no concrete ideas tomorrow. Killing him now with Brodeur having a high chance of being evil just doesnt make sense to me.
I don't get why Brodeur has a higher chance of being evil than TH. I also don't get why Brodeur is more dangerous to us than TH is.

Answer those for me sir!
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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I don't get why Brodeur has a higher chance of being evil than TH. I also don't get why Brodeur is more dangerous to us than TH is.

Answer those for me sir!
What good can Brodeur go for us? Jailkeep someone good? Means they cant use their abilties. Jailkeep someone evil? Not a good shot that actually happens and he could end up saving mafia from being killed by sk or vig. I just see no good reason to keep the potential jailkeeper alive who I think is evil.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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a. No other vigilante turned up. with 4 kills, id say it is very likely that there is a vigilante. Could be 2 SKs, we had that before, but SKs are just as dangerous to the mafia.

b. Brodeur blocked Rob. Either he is a roleblocker or a jailkeeper. A jailkeeper is a role less likely to be there than vigilante.

c. Roleblockers are highly dangerous because they can really stop the town from being helped. A jailkeeper can save a person, but ultimately, if it was an important role, also hinders her. So it is not really a win - win situation.


Thats my opinion anyways
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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What good can Brodeur go for us? Jailkeep someone good? Means they cant use their abilties. Jailkeep someone evil? Not a good shot that actually happens and he could end up saving mafia from being killed by sk or vig. I just see no good reason to keep the potential jailkeeper alive who I think is evil.
Yes, but couldn't TH easily hit on an important member of the town, say like a protector?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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I see Renji's argument that TH is basically confirmed good unless someone else comes out and claims vigilante because there were three kills plus the trivia and we can probably assume that there aren't 2 mafia kills or 2 SKs(although that would be a neat twist and might be plausible in a game this size). Since TH has a higher chance of being good than Brodeur who is 50/50 that makes Brodeur the logical lynch. The only thing that has me torn is if we kill Brody and keep TH around we are likely to lose another townie tonight since he has to kill.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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a. No other vigilante turned up. with 4 kills, id say it is very likely that there is a vigilante. Could be 2 SKs, we had that before, but SKs are just as dangerous to the mafia.
Are they? In a game this size you'd have to think the town outnumbers the Mafia at least 3 to 1. The SKs (or SK + Vigilante, if you believe there is one) has a better shot of taking out one of us than they do a Mafia member.

And you forget that TH HAS to pick a target. He can't just not kill someone, he is FORCED to. If we kill Brodeur, and he really is a jailkeeper like I think he is, he is our ONLY DEFENSE against TH randomly killing good townies. Sure he could hit on a Mafia member, but the odds are against him.

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Yes, but couldn't TH easily hit on an important member of the town, say like a protector?
Exactly. And he is forced to kill, so who knows what could happen there.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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... if it was an important role, also hinders her. ...

I love how you are playing your role.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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Yes, but couldn't TH easily hit on an important member of the town, say like a protector?
He could do that yes. It comes to whether we trust TH to go after the right people. I am willing to chance it for at least tonight. I think Brodeur is more likely evil so I think I am sticking with him.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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So who does TH go after tonight then?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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No one has answered me why they believe Brodeur is more evil than TH is. I'm still curious as to why.

If the town as a group decides Brodeur is more lynch worthy, then you should lynch him. I think you're wrong. I think the more immediate threat is the guy who can kill us.

If we ultimately decide Brodeur is more dangerous, I will change my vote, but I haven't seen a reason to think so yet.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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I mean at worst we lose a doctor? With the backup watcher/tracker, id imagine there is a backup jailkeeper/doctor out there somewhere
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Are they? In a game this size you'd have to think the town outnumbers the Mafia at least 3 to 1. The SKs (or SK + Vigilante, if you believe there is one) has a better shot of taking out one of us than they do a Mafia member.

And you forget that TH HAS to pick a target. He can't just not kill someone, he is FORCED to. If we kill Brodeur, and he really is a jailkeeper like I think he is, he is our ONLY DEFENSE against TH randomly killing good townies. Sure he could hit on a Mafia member, but the odds are against him.



Exactly. And he is forced to kill, so who knows what could happen there.
I am getting weird vibes from you. You are advocating lynching TH so your whole thing about Brodeur being our only defence from TH killing a townie makes no sense. I don't see vigilante as a hindrance if used right. Yes he could kill a townie but he has a fairly decent list of people that seem suspect and people who seem good to avoid. Like I said, wouldn't mind giving him the night and trusting he helps rather than hurts.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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How many mafia are we looking at in a game this size? 7 plus the SK?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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I am getting weird vibes from you. You are advocating lynching TH so your whole thing about Brodeur being our only defence from TH killing a townie makes no sense. I don't see vigilante as a hindrance if used right. Yes he could kill a townie but he has a fairly decent list of people that seem suspect and people who seem good to avoid. Like I said, wouldn't mind giving him the night and trusting he helps rather than hurts.
It actually makes perfect sense..

If we lynch TH, he doesn't choose someone to kill.

If we lynch Brodeur, TH HAS TO PICK SOMEONE TO KILL TONIGHT, and Brodeur won't be around to jailkeep him from stopping the kill.

How does that not make sense?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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It actually makes perfect sense..

If we lynch TH, he doesn't choose someone to kill.

If we lynch Brodeur, TH HAS TO PICK SOMEONE TO KILL TONIGHT, and Brodeur won't be around to jailkeep him from stopping the kill.

How does that not make sense?
Brodeur won't be around to jailkeep TH. One is going. In any case plans like that never work and I think vig can be used to do good, I would not want him jailkept every night. So no, it doesn't make sense bringing up a plan that would not work and has no chance of happening anyway. Again, you seem fishy as **** dawg.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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What good can Brodeur go for us? Jailkeep someone good? Means they cant use their abilties. Jailkeep someone evil? Not a good shot that actually happens and he could end up saving mafia from being killed by sk or vig. I just see no good reason to keep the potential jailkeeper alive who I think is evil.
Keeping me alive keeps a good guy alive, so that's what I thought was originally the point. You know, making sure good people stay alive. Baines being Baines.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Brodeur won't be around to jailkeep TH. One is going. In any case plans like that never work and I think vig can be used to do good, I would not want him jailkept every night. So no, it doesn't make sense bringing up a plan that would not work and has no chance of happening anyway. Again, you seem fishy as **** dawg.
You're right, one is going. One of them can and must choose someone to kill, and the other doesn't. The other one can protect one of us from dying too.

I'm fishy? You're the one who wants to kill the guy that could actually do some good. You're being fishy here Gonzo.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Brodeur won't be around to jailkeep TH. One is going. In any case plans like that never work and I think vig can be used to do good, I would not want him jailkept every night. So no, it doesn't make sense bringing up a plan that would not work and has no chance of happening anyway. Again, you seem fishy as **** dawg.
This would normally be the case but under these circumstances it isn't exactly true. The only way to use TH that benefits the town is to have him jailkept until we have a surefire target for him to hit...and even then we would need to weed out the mafia roleblocker.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Todd Bertuzzi View Post
This would normally be the case but under these circumstances it isn't exactly true. The only way to use TH that benefits the town is to have him jailkept until we have a surefire target for him to hit...and even then we would need to weed out the mafia roleblocker.
And that is only if TH is telling the truth and actually wants to work for the town. Have we ever seen something like this work out for the good? I can't remember one if it has.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
And that is only if TH is telling the truth and actually wants to work for the town. Have we ever seen something like this work out for the good? I can't remember one if it has.
I mean he has to be the vigilante though unless there are in fact two SKs. TH can you character reveal por favor?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Todd Bertuzzi View Post
I mean he has to be the vigilante though unless there are in fact two SKs. TH can you character reveal por favor?
Pretty sure he said he was Creek
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:21 PM    (permalink
Todd Bertuzzi
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Pretty sure he said he was Creek
Ah, right. Well I see no reason not to believe him then. Ugh this is tough but I think I'd rather keep the confirmed good guy around and try and take out the roleblocker.

Unvote: TH
Vote: Brodeur
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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Ah, right. Well I see no reason not to believe him then. Ugh this is tough but I think I'd rather keep the confirmed good guy around and try and take out the roleblocker.
I've asked multiple times why TH is "confirmed good" and have yet to get an answer. Is it because you think a Vigilante and a SK makes more sense than two SKs? If that's the case, I can get on board with that, but that hardly confirms him as good. Couldn't Creek be a neutral player?

I dunno. Like I said, I will change my vote to Brodeur if that's what people want, but I don't agree with it.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:27 PM    (permalink
Todd Bertuzzi
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I've asked multiple times why TH is "confirmed good" and have yet to get an answer. Is it because you think a Vigilante and a SK makes more sense than two SKs? If that's the case, I can get on board with that, but that hardly confirms him as good. Couldn't Creek be a neutral player?

I dunno. Like I said, I will change my vote to Brodeur if that's what people want, but I don't agree with it.
Creek would be good imo and given the clue about 4 players with C names I think it all but confirms TH's role for me. Obviously we can't clear him for sure but I think there's a higher chance he is good than Brodeur. Trying to take out the roleblocker is worth the risk of losing a jailkeeper imo.
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