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Old 12-17-2012, 07:18 PM    (permalink
phlysac
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I don't always hate being conservative. I hate being conservative for no reason. When you have an opponent by the throat you keep them that way. I hated the way the way the 1st half ended. You never know when 4 points are going to be necessary. There was no reason to approach that final minute without even attempting to score a TD.

Also, it seems that when all the team needs is to kill a chunk of clock, they run 3 quick-hitters up the gut and punt. It's been happening for a long time but last night was a great example.

Over a 4 drive stretch when the Patriots were coming back and eventually tied, the 49ers ran 10 plays. 4 drives and only 10 plays. Thank the football gods one of those plays was the Crabtree TD.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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I think people are more afraid of this style because we aren't always gonna be ahead. It's a great style to play with the lead, but you can sense panic when things aren't going so well...lamichael james and crabtree pretty much saved us.


Also, Vernon should've laid out for that freakin catch.
You can tell by the way he looked up, he was trying to find the ball. I'm sure if he had located the ball earlier in its trajectory, he would have probably laid out.

But I still say CK put too much arch on it. It looked like a rainbow....that's why you see VD flip his head back straight back like he did to find the ball. Seems as if VD had enough seperation from the defender to put a little more torque on the throw, which would have allowed VD to merely look over his shoulder.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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I don't always hate being conservative. I hate being conservative for no reason. When you have an opponent by the throat you keep them that way. I hated the way the way the 1st half ended. You never know when 4 points are going to be necessary. There was no reason to approach that final minute without even attempting to score a TD.

Also, it seems that when all the team needs is to kill a chunk of clock, they run 3 quick-hitters up the gut and punt. It's been happening for a long time but last night was a great example.

Over a 4 drive stretch when the Patriots were coming back and eventually tied, the 49ers ran 10 plays. 4 drives and only 10 plays. Thank the football gods one of those plays was the Crabtree TD.
Yup. The move before half really troubled me. That's what I mean about putting away elite offenses. You can't take moral victories, you have to score TDs there. Maybe the fumbled snaps had Roman and JH worried and a bit limited to what they could call down there. But you have to take at least one shot at the endzone there after 2nd down. You said it correctly, when we attempt to burn clock, the play design is very bland and ordinary. I don't know if that's because the more diverse looking stuff is looked at as more trickier and may allow for more errors. But when we're running regular offense, trying to put points on the board, the running game looks so diverse and the play design is something to behold. Again, another disconnect that affects how the offense stalls and doesn't flow throughout a entire game.

There's a difference between ball-control and being conservative. You can be aggressive while in ball-control mode, depending on play design and formation. But being conservative is a concerted effort to not **** up and hoping that the play works. That mentality will lose you more games than not against better teams so you have to crank it up a notch against better opposition, IMO.

On a side note, its going to be very tough to go deep in the playoffs depending on Brooks and Aldon primarily for our pass-rush. I hope they have a mind to give the open spot on the 53 to a pass-rush specialist type of player. I know they re-signed Bkahtari but he's strictly a ST player at this point, though he did see snaps late agaisnt the Pats as Aldon, Haggans, and Cowboy all were banged up at one point. But we could use a guy with some experience at getting to the QB. I know they worked out Ray Edwards a couple of weeks ago. Somebody along those lines would be beneficial for us to have in case of injury, during the playoffs. And with Cowboy and Aldon nursing injuries, better to be safe than sorry.

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Old 12-17-2012, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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I hope we target another OLB or another DL in the next draft regardless of what happens. We don't rotate a lot of our players and when we have to play streetball like that against teams like the Patriots, Green Bay, or New Orleans our guys might get tired...or maybe injured. We've been lucky that our superstars haven't suffered any lingering long term injuries. I have been high on Dobbs though, even though he's out for the season.

That reminds me, Justin Smith apparently has an elbow injury that isn't believed to be serious. I was optimistic when he came back out in full uniform and I think even went back in the game?
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:24 AM    (permalink
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Goldson gonna be rich. Pay dat black man. He ain't no cornball brotha.

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Old 12-18-2012, 07:35 AM    (permalink
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Check out the tail end of the Week 15 discussion thread in the main football section. I ticked off some Patriot fan because I simply shared my opinion regarding Goldson's hit on Hernandez. Dis gon be gud.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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People who talk to themselves, rofl
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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Goldson and Whitner are human missiles. I used to think Goldson stunk, but dude has been an enforcer.

Dl and OLB definitely. The entire D feels like it needs Justin or else it loses too much.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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People who talk to themselves, rofl
Damn you're gonna set the all time record for negative rep here. Sweet.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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Draft wise, DE, another pass rushing OLB and a CB are my top three. NT would be fourth only because I think that we'll re-sign Jean-Francois and still have Ian Williams who I would like to see play NT to see how he does.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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Damn you're gonna set the all time record for negative rep here. Sweet.
Yeah, and I haven't even neg repped him ... yet.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Goldson and Whitner are human missiles. I used to think Goldson stunk, but dude has been an enforcer.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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I really don't think we will go OLB. With Haralson back. Dobbs who i think will be an OLB and both Darius Fleming and Cam Johnson drafted last year combined with Brooks and Smith i think we have enough for that position. D-line, CB, Safety and maybe even MLB(with Larry Grant possibly leaving) for the defense and on offense i think we could use a TE(to replace Walker) and you can never have too many receivers.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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I really don't think we will go OLB. With Haralson back. Dobbs who i think will be an OLB and both Darius Fleming and Cam Johnson drafted last year combined with Brooks and Smith i think we have enough for that position. D-line, CB, Safety and maybe even MLB(with Larry Grant possibly leaving) for the defense and on offense i think we could use a TE(to replace Walker) and you can never have too many receivers.
Fleming is coming off a ACL injury and Johnson is a 7th round pick who didn't even make the final roster. Still alot of questions there about those two and their ability moving forward. Haralson might be a cap casualty because we might need his 3 mil base salary to be spent elsewhere(hopefully to lockup Goldson long-term). Dobbs isn't moving to OLB. He's a D-Lineman(actually a TE if we're being technical) and that will continue to be his primary position. He sees snaps at OLB because of the lack of depth and its a numbers thing on gamedays, not because he's that good. OLB is easily the thinnest position on defense and it would not shock me to see us go pass-rusher as our first pick. But it also wouldn't shock me if we didn't pick one until the 4th or 5th round. That's the beauty of having a fairly deep roster with reasonable depth just about everywhere....you have options come draft time.

I'm probably in the minority but I would sit Justin Smith these last two games. We're already guaranteed to be in the playoffs. You have to be smart here and think big picture. I'm sure Cowboy would absolutely hate it because he wants to play but I have a lot of confidence in RJF. I don't think ppl realize just how good this guy is and how close he is from being a really good player for us. Nobody replaces Cowboy but I think the line can survive two games without him. Ice played some DE against the Pats and actually pushed the pocket pretty good. Between RJF, Sopoaga, and activating Ian Williams, we could survive without Cowboy for this two game stretch. Rather have Cowboy amped and ready for the post-season than to be nursing a injury heading into the playoffs. I doubt it happens though.

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Old 12-18-2012, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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I don't see OLB as a first round pick. That pick would be a part time role player for the next 3-4 years. Seems like a waste. Unfortunately, I still think WR will need to be addressed.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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Fleming is coming off a ACL injury and Johnson is a 7th round pick who didn't even make the final roster. Still alot of questions there about those two and their ability moving forward. Haralson might be a cap casualty because we might need his 3 mil base salary to be spent elsewhere(hopefully to lockup Goldson long-term). Dobbs isn't moving to OLB. He's a D-Lineman(actually a TE if we're being technical) and that will continue to be his primary position. He sees snaps at OLB because of the lack of depth and its a numbers thing on gamedays, not because he's that good. OLB is easily the thinnest position on defense and it would not shock me to see us go pass-rusher as our first pick. But it also wouldn't shock me if we didn't pick one until the 4th or 5th round. That's the beauty of having a fairly deep roster with reasonable depth just about everywhere....you have options come draft time.
I think they see Dobbs as an TE/ pass rusher. So i dont think he ever will be a full time OLB but in the nickle on the outside and just like Smith last year he could see more snaps cause i dont believe he had much snaps at TE this year. Besides that i really don't think Haralson will be an cap casualty. I see them cutting Goodwin or Smith but i think Haralson will stay so we can give Brooks and Smith some more snaps off. But is he gets cut i think we will sign another OLB to fill that role so we dont have to rely on an Rookie.

I think D-line is the thinnest position on D with basically only Smith, McDonald, Sopoaga and RJF. Tukuafu is already 28 and besides some FB he hasn't played much and i think never will play much so i could see him leave and Ian Williams who hasn't been active all year.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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I think they see Dobbs as an TE/ pass rusher. So i dont think he ever will be a full time OLB but in the nickle on the outside and just like Smith last year he could see more snaps cause i dont believe he had much snaps at TE this year. Besides that i really don't think Haralson will be an cap casualty. I see them cutting Goodwin or Smith but i think Haralson will stay so we can give Brooks and Smith some more snaps off. But is he gets cut i think we will sign another OLB to fill that role so we dont have to rely on an Rookie.

I think D-line is the thinnest position on D with basically only Smith, McDonald, Sopoaga and RJF. Tukuafu is already 28 and besides some FB he hasn't played much and i think never will play much so i could see him leave and Ian Williams who hasn't been active all year.
I don't see how the D-Line is thinner. You have RJF who will be resigned as a quality back-up. Ice could be back at a reduce rate and even if he isn't, we have Ian Williams who is dirt cheap and a guy they've been grooming for 2 years. You have Dobbs who should return from his injury and be in line for a back-up role next year. All the snaps I've seen of Dobbs on the defensive end this year has been at DE. When we've subbed out either Aldon or Brooks I've only see Haggans inserted at that OLB spot. That tells me all I need to know in terms of where they view Dobbs as a situational pass-rusher and how thin we are at OLB if Haggans is the first guy off the bench. Then you have a rookie in Eddie who I really like at DE and a guy who I think could step right in and earn a roster spot next year if we do let Ice walk. When I say thin, I'm also talking about talent difference from the starters to the 2nd string, not just bodies. I'm much more comfortable with the talent of 2's behind the D-Line heading into next year than I am with the 2's behind Brooks and Aldon.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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I'm just thinking about injury. Justin Smith is getting up there in age and like I said, we've been really fortunate with durability. The Houston Texans just drafted Whitney Mercilus who is just waiting in the wings behind Connor Barwin and Brooks Reed, and apparently has looked good when he's gotten on the field. I still think we need a receiver to help Crabtree who seems to be turning into a good target, but I'm just concerned about our defense.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Borat View Post
I don't see OLB as a first round pick. That pick would be a part time role player for the next 3-4 years. Seems like a waste. Unfortunately, I still think WR will need to be addressed.
Honestly, depends on Baalke's big board and what he covets. We had a first round pick this year who wasn't even activated on gamedays until week 14. I don't think ppl should get caught up in what role a first round pick will be used. We have a insanely deep team with very few holes. But we also have alot of talent that has to be resigned over these next few years so we need to augment that with some young talent in certain areas as a contingency plan. We won't be able to sign everybody. If Baalke feels like he has another Aldon Smith in his sights, I don't believe he thinks twice. He'll gladly pull the trigger in the first IF his value chart warranted it.

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Old 12-18-2012, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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I don't see how the D-Line is thinner. You have RJF who will be resigned as a quality back-up. Ice could be back at a reduce rate and even if he isn't, we have Ian Williams who is dirt cheap and a guy they've been grooming for 2 years. You have Dobbs who should return from his injury and be in line for a back-up role next year. All the snaps I've seen of Dobbs on the defensive end this year has been at DE. When we've subbed out either Aldon or Brooks I've only see Haggans inserted at that OLB spot. That tells me all I need to know in terms of where they view Dobbs as a situational pass-rusher and how thin we are at OLB if Haggans is the first guy off the bench. Then you have a rookie in Eddie who I really like at DE and a guy who I think could step right in and earn a roster spot next year if we do let Ice walk. When I say thin, I'm also talking about talent difference from the starters to the 2nd string, not just bodies. I'm much more comfortable with the talent of 2's behind the D-Line heading into next year than I am with the 2's behind Brooks and Aldon.
Well i dont see Dobbs stepping in for either Smith or McDonald so he basically is only an DE/OLB in our nickle package where he will replace Smith or Brooks. Ian Williams hasn't been active all year i believe so i dont really think he is being trusted that much(can be because he doesn't have ST or offensive roles but i just don't think they will go with RJF and Ian Williams as NT. RJF seems better as DT(in place of McDonald or Smith and i don't really know Eddie so cant judge him.

On OLB we will have at least in my eyes Haralson who i very much trust as an number 2 more than RJF who i think will never become an full time starter. Offcourse at thise stage OLB is very weak but that more has to do with the current injuries where 2 of the 4 guys on IR are OLB's than with a lack of depth on the normal roster. Offcourse you never know how Haralson will come back and how fleming will fit in but while i can see that the position isn't the deepest i certainly think we have more need for and NT or DT or maybe even both.

However it will be i really don't think we need a guy that can step right in. Only exception can be safety when Goldson isn't resigned which i would really hate cause he is an important piece of the D.

And last but not least i think you can never have enough pass rushers and receiving targets since i could very well see Moss, Ginn and Walker leave after this year which leaves us with only Crabtree, Manningham and Davis as proven targets and Williams, Jenkins and Celek that still have to prove a lot. I would love to see us get a TE like Toilolo who could be amazing in the endzone and an speedy outside target since we now have an QB who could get the bal there.

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Old 12-18-2012, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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I'm just thinking about injury. Justin Smith is getting up there in age and like I said, we've been really fortunate with durability. The Houston Texans just drafted Whitney Mercilus who is just waiting in the wings behind Connor Barwin and Brooks Reed, and apparently has looked good when he's gotten on the field. I still think we need a receiver to help Crabtree who seems to be turning into a good target, but I'm just concerned about our defense.
I think we need WR depth, not immediate help, heading into next year. Don't think Moss will be back. K-10's injured ACL puts him and us behind the 8-Ball in terms of depth. He was really having a solid year for a 4th WR on a team who doesn't use many 3 or 4 WR sets and subs out receivers as much as we do. But I have no issues with MM and Crabs as the starters and Jenkins as the 3rd WR heading into next season. But like I mentioned in my previous post, with Crabs and MM due for free agency after 2013 and 2014 respectively, we have to be proactive in finding young talent to bring into the fold in case those guys aren't in our plans once their contract is up.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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I really don't think we will go OLB. With Haralson back. Dobbs who i think will be an OLB and both Darius Fleming and Cam Johnson drafted last year combined with Brooks and Smith i think we have enough for that position. D-line, CB, Safety and maybe even MLB(with Larry Grant possibly leaving) for the defense and on offense i think we could use a TE(to replace Walker) and you can never have too many receivers.
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya
Fleming is coming off a ACL injury and Johnson is a 7th round pick who didn't even make the final roster. Still alot of questions there about those two and their ability moving forward. Haralson might be a cap casualty because we might need his 3 mil base salary to be spent elsewhere(hopefully to lockup Goldson long-term). Dobbs isn't moving to OLB. He's a D-Lineman(actually a TE if we're being technical) and that will continue to be his primary position. He sees snaps at OLB because of the lack of depth and its a numbers thing on gamedays, not because he's that good. OLB is easily the thinnest position on defense and it would not shock me to see us go pass-rusher as our first pick. But it also wouldn't shock me if we didn't pick one until the 4th or 5th round. That's the beauty of having a fairly deep roster with reasonable depth just about everywhere....you have options come draft time.
Fleming is coming of an ACL injury and isnt guaranteed a roster spot in 2013 and neither is Johnson who instead of being moved up to the active roster is stuck on the practice squad while we re-signed Bakhtiari to be our fourth OLB. Dobbs is a DE, not an OLB (or TE for that matter) and Haralson is also coming off a season ending injury and considering his age and salary for 2013, he could be a salary cap casualty. Both Sopoaga and Jean-Francois are UFA's and always a possibility that we lose both. If that happens, then both NT and OLB are huge needs. Both are needs to begin with but could end up being huge needs. CB depends on what happens with Rogers, Brown and Brock. Safety isnt a need as long as we re-sign Goldson. ILB depends on what happens with Grant and Gooden. Offensively, I would say just a second TE to replace Walker who I would let leave because he's declined from last season and I wouldnt overpay him.

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I'm probably in the minority but I would sit Justin Smith these last two games. We're already guaranteed to be in the playoffs. You have to be smart here and think big picture. I'm sure Cowboy would absolutely hate it because he wants to play but I have a lot of confidence in RJF. I don't think ppl realize just how good this guy is and how close he is from being a really good player for us. Nobody replaces Cowboy but I think the line can survive two games without him. Ice played some DE against the Pats and actually pushed the pocket pretty good. Between RJF, Sopoaga, and activating Ian Williams, we could survive without Cowboy for this two game stretch. Rather have Cowboy amped and ready for the post-season than to be nursing a injury heading into the playoffs. I doubt it happens though.
No way I sit Smith Sunday. We're in the playoffs but need to get that second seed and a home playoff game in the divisional round. If we beat SEA, then we can sit him against the Cardinals but I wouldnt sit him both games. No way. Getting that second seed is too important. Smith can heal during the Cardinals game and the bye week.

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I don't see OLB as a first round pick. That pick would be a part time role player for the next 3-4 years. Seems like a waste. Unfortunately, I still think WR will need to be addressed.
Could be a player who can play DE and OLB in our 3-4 defense. That wouldnt be a waste. Just OLB in general, I agree. As for WR, Crabtree, Manningham, Williams and Jenkins are our top four receivers. Could draft a WR in the mid to later rounds but not in the top three.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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Well i dont see Dobbs stepping in for either Smith or McDonald so he basically is only an DE/OLB in our nickle package where he will replace Smith or Brooks. Ian Williams hasn't been active all year i believe so i dont really think he is being trusted that much(can be because he doesn't have ST or offensive roles but i just don't think they will go with RJF and Ian Williams as NT. RJF seems better as DT(in place of McDonald or Smith and i don't really know Eddie so cant judge him.

On OLB we will have at least in my eyes Haralson who i very much trust as an number 2 more than RJF who i think will never become an full time starter. Offcourse at thise stage OLB is very weak but that more has to do with the current injuries where 2 of the 4 guys on IR are OLB's than with a lack of depth on the normal roster. Offcourse you never know how Haralson will come back and how fleming will fit in but while i can see that the position isn't the deepest i certainly think we have more need for and NT or DT or maybe even both.

However it will be i really don't think we need a guy that can step right in. Only exception can be safety when Goldson isn't resigned which i would really hate cause he is an important piece of the D.

And last but not least i think you can never have enough pass rushers and receiving targets since i could very well see Moss, Ginn and Walker leave after this year which leaves us with only Crabtree, Manningham and Davis as proven targets and Williams, Jenkins and Celek that still have to prove a lot. I would love to see us get a TE like Toilolo who could be amazing in the endzone and an speedy outside target since we now have an QB who could get the bal there.
I'm almost positive, if you watch any replays of our games, you'll see Dobbs inserted into games to back-up either Cowboy or Ray Mac. Especially when we go with a 3 man line in nickel or dime situations. I don't recall ever seeing him on the edge of a 4 man line. I'll have to check though to be certain.

I agree, you can never have enough pass-rushers....which is why I said it wouldn't shock me if OLB was the first pick.

And I still believe Haralson's contract might be a problem. If he agrees to restructure, shouldn'tu be a issue. I can see Baalke giving him a Ted Ginn-like ultimatum...either re-structure or be cut. But he also might want to go elsewere for a bigger role so wouldn't be opposed to being cut if it meant he could sign for more money and be in-line for a starting position elsewhere. It makes a ton of sense financial and career wise for him. He'd have some suitors if he hit the market.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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I still think we need a receiver to help Crabtree who seems to be turning into a good target, but I'm just concerned about our defense.
I disagree with you and Borat in regards to needing another WR. When im not looking for us to go after Wallace, that should tell you guys something. :P

Seriously though, Crabtree, Manningham, Williams (slot) and Jenkins are our top four receivers. I could see a mid to late round pick on a WR but not in the top three. Extend Manningham and Williams and we're good to go. Kaepernick makes our receivers even better than they already are.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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I'm almost positive, if you watch any replays of our games, you'll see Dobbs inserted into games to back-up either Cowboy or Ray Mac. Especially when we go with a 3 man line in nickel or dime situations. I don't recall ever seeing him on the edge of a 4 man line. I'll have to check though to be certain.

I agree, you can never have enough pass-rushers....which is why I said it wouldn't shock me if OLB was the first pick.

And I still believe Haralson's contract might be a problem. If he agrees to restructure, shouldn'tu be a issue. I can see Baalke giving him a Ted Ginn-like ultimatum...either re-structure or be cut. But he also might want to go elsewere for a bigger role so wouldn't be opposed to being cut if it meant he could sign for more money and be in-line for a starting position elsewhere. It makes a ton of sense financial and career wise for him. He'd have some suitors if he hit the market.
Could be wrong on my end too to be honest. In my mind he played the outside on the 4 man lines sometimes but could be the 3 man Dime looks.

@Dan

I think we really can use another receiver. Just having those 4 won't be enough and really wil K-10 tearing his ACL i don't think he will have a big role next year which leaves us with 3 receivers. And i think having an variety of receivers can really pay off. A speedy outside target to replace Moss is a need in my eyes to complement the qualities of Crabtree and Manningham and the still basically unknown Jenkins.

Last edited by Justone2 : 12-18-2012 at 06:37 PM.
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