Poll: Rookie of the Year (week 16) - Page 19

AntoinCD · 01-01-2013, 03:23 AM

I get that RG3 is helping the run game, however it is not because he is doing anything revolutionary. Defending the run is a pure numbers game.

On most "pro style" running plays the offense are trying to block 11 guys with 9. Obviously the RB doesn't block anyone and seldom does the QB do anything but handoff and get out of the way.

However what Griffin forces teams to do is use one of their defenders to play contain on him.

What the zone read play does is it forces the play side end to make a decision that quite frankly he seldom has to make since this offense is not frequently used in the NFL.

So what that one play has done is cut it down from trying to block 11 with 9 to trying to block 9 with 9, with say the back side end containing Griffin and watching for cut backs and the front side end being unblocked and manipulated by the pitch.

But as I was saying this isn't some crazy made up scheme from the Shanahan's. This has been around for years, however no teams were willing to put their QB through all the hits that he could take. But it is happening all over the NFL now.

Watch how the Patriots defended the 49ers run game a few weeks ago. Kaepernick was able to manipulate the fronts he seen by doing exactly the same thing that Griffin did.

J-Mike88 · 01-01-2013, 09:20 AM

Just posted over at ESPN, nice look at the OVERALL PRODUCTION of each of the 3 QBs.
Doesn't show highlights, glamour, money maid, draft postions, supporting casts, what quarter or half of game their stuff happened, etc. Just shows WHAT THEY DID.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post...son-and-rg-iii

FUNBUNCHER · 01-01-2013, 09:59 AM

Griffin and the Skins are 10-6, not 9-6.
Little hating over there at ESPN.

Absent draft position, hype, name recognition, or the fact that one of these guys plays for the team I've rooted for since forever, no QB has played better the last half of the season than Russell Wilson.

If you want to do a granular statistical analysis, RG3 is going to come out ahead in most categories.

However the Colts still won 11 games because of Luck, not in spite of him. He was still good enough to outplay his own mistakes which most rookie or veteran QBs simply cannot do.

The easy pick is Luck, but the right pick is probably Russell Wilson.
Flacco and Roethlisberger played on good teams as rookies too, and they didn't come close to the level of production that Russell Wilson has had.
Wilson isn't a game manager for the Seahawks, Carroll expects the kid to be able to make plays to win games.

killxswitch · 01-01-2013, 10:08 AM

What is each candidate's signature win?

FUNBUNCHER · 01-01-2013, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch

What is each candidate's signature win?

Luck beat GB and Houston. Wilson beat SF and the Pats. I don't think RG3 has one. He was a consistent performer, but he's never beaten a team the Skins were expected to lose to, or defeated one the league or conference's elite teams.

Robert still did lead the Skins on a 7 game winning streak, but even that is marred by Cousins in coming for relief in the Ravens game and playing the entire Browns game.

J-Mike88 · 01-01-2013, 10:43 AM

Griffin's Signature win may have been the opener at Drew Brees and the Saints.

Doesn't matter what week it was really as a W in September counts as much as a W in December in the long run.

njx9 · 01-01-2013, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

Just posted over at ESPN, nice look at the OVERALL PRODUCTION of each of the 3 QBs.
Doesn't show highlights, glamour, money maid, draft postions, supporting casts, what quarter or half of game their stuff happened, etc. Just shows WHAT THEY DID.

because again, who needs context when you can just look at box scores and know everything there is to know about a sport? i assume you just "watch" games on the gamecenter thing, so that you don't have to worry about why a play gained 10 yards, just that 10 yards were gained. because that's ALL THAT MATTERS.

jsagan77 · 01-01-2013, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Luck beat GB and Houston. Wilson beat SF and the Pats. I don't think RG3 has one. He was a consistent performer, but he's never beaten a team the Skins were expected to lose to, or defeated one the league or conference's elite teams.

Robert still did lead the Skins on a 7 game winning streak, but even that is marred by Cousins coming for relief in the Ravens game and playing the entire Browns game.

He beat the Giants at home in a must win, set up the go ahead TD And was flawless in the time killing drive. Came back against the Giants converting multiple 4th down conversions (D lost that one). How about him coming back in after that Nata Hit and driving us down the field?

I guess the 7 game winning streak he went on to make the playoffs don't classify as one game, but to rise to the level he has over that one and done stretch is nothing short of miracullous. Especially putting up the QBR and limiting turnovers. I know he had some help from Morris and the D played some good games as well as cousins coming in for relief. I actually believe RG3's QBR is the best ever for a rookie and 17th all time. Pretty good for a rook.

AntoinCD · 01-01-2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsagan77

He beat the Giants at home in a must win, set up the go ahead TD And was flawless in the time killing drive. Came back against the Giants converting multiple 4th down conversions (D lost that one). How about him coming back in after that Nata Hit and driving us down the field?

I guess the 7 game winning streak he went on to make the playoffs don't classify as one game, but to rise to the level he has over that one and done stretch is nothing short of miracullous. Especially putting up the QBR and limiting turnovers. I know he had some help from Morris and the D played some good games as well as cousins coming in for relief. I actually believe RG3's QBR is the best ever for a rookie and 17th all time. Pretty good for a rook.

QBR is one of the worst barometers of QB play imaginable. If I can throw my team all the way to the one yard line and the RB punches it in it somehow counts against me? Likewise if JJ Watt is coming full steam ahead at me it benefits my QBR to take a sack rather than throw the football away. QBR points go up but the team goes backwards??? How does that work?

Ben Roethlisberger is a great example of someone who has an over inflated QBR. Seldom does he throw the ball away. He is responsible for so many bad (and good) plays because instead of living to fight another day and throwing it away he extends plays and is often sacked. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning also take less sacks because they are not afraid to throw it away as the worst that can happen is an incompletion.

SeanTaylorRIP · 01-01-2013, 02:14 PM

This is RG3's signature moment to beat the Vikings in a game where he literally had to do everything himself:

FUNBUNCHER · 01-01-2013, 02:19 PM

Signature wins, not signature moment.

RG3's best signature moment IMO was when he converted 4th and 13(?) against the Giants.

RG3 has a boatload of highlight plays, but that singular win against a superior opponent is lacking. He might have had it if he'd finished the Ravens game.

SeanTaylorRIP · 01-01-2013, 02:28 PM

Well Atlanta is the only "elite" team that he even played this year so not really fair to say he didn't have elite wins. It was 10-7 Skins lead when RG3 was knocked out of the game and then Cousins went in to throw 2 INT's.

xjxdarren · 01-01-2013, 02:40 PM

That's the most pretentious statement in the young 2013. You thought Cousins didn't at one point get the lead for the Skins in that game? You phrased it as if BG3 built a monumental and insurmountable 25 point lead before leaving the game and Cousins shamefully coughed it up by himself.

Falcons didn't play their best that day, but they WON that game hands down.

FUNBUNCHER · 01-01-2013, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

Well Atlanta is the only "elite" team that he even played this year so not really fair to say he didn't have elite wins. It was 10-7 Skins lead when RG3 was knocked out of the game and then Cousins went in to throw 2 INT's.

It's just another stat category. RG3 has been awesome all season long.
No other rookie QB won their division except RG3.

Washington was picked to finish last in the NFCE in a division with the defending SB champs and two other strong playoff contenders. Robert played his best against divisional opponents, I'll take that all day.

G Mobile · 01-01-2013, 02:57 PM

NFCE was not and is not some crazy elite division this year. Its a stretch to call the Cowboys and Eagles strong playoff contenders. The Giants were the defending SB champion but they didn't even make the playoffs. It isn't the easiest division, but its not a murderers row. I understand that it is very competitive but almost every divisional game is.

FUNBUNCHER · 01-01-2013, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G Mobile

NFCE was not and is not some crazy elite division this year. Its a stretch to call the Cowboys and Eagles strong playoff contenders. The Giants were the defending SB champion but they didn't even make the playoffs. It isn't the easiest division, but its not a murderers row. I understand that it is very competitive but almost every divisional game is.

I'm talking about before the start of the season. THat's why I don't count the victories over the Giants and Cowboys as great wins because they weren't playoff teams.

As improbable as it was for the Colts to win 11 games and make the playoffs, it was equally if not more unlikely for the Skins to win the NFCE.

Caulibflower · 01-01-2013, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

Wasn't sure where to post this but apparently Trent Richardson played 9 games this year with broken ribs. Damn.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/87...es-broken-ribs

With his stats, draft position and the state of the team he went to, not to mention beginning his career without a lot of media praise at first, there's a lot about Trent Richardson's rookie year that makes me think of LaDanian Tomlinson.

katnip · 01-01-2013, 03:48 PM

No Doug Martin?

21ST · 01-01-2013, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katnip

No Doug Martin?

Who's that?

J-Mike88 · 01-01-2013, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

because again, who needs context when you can just look at box scores and know everything there is to know about a sport? i assume you just "watch" games on the gamecenter thing, so that you don't have to worry about why a play gained 10 yards, just that 10 yards were gained. because that's ALL THAT MATTERS.

LMAO!!!
Classic right there.

So erase all the stats and let's just let you put in your professional expert analysis, since you watched all the games live, and with coach film, and since you evaluates the opponents and their level, and each QB's supporting cast and their performences. And the weather. And the refs calls, etc.

Just erase the stats, ignore em, and go by what you would like the stats to mean.

"Context"... LOL !

J-Mike88 · 01-01-2013, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

This is RG3's signature moment to beat the Vikings in a game where he literally had to do everything himself:

THe LuckHuggers don't count this because it wasn't a pass.
Not as important or impressive unless it was a pass.

WinslowBodden · 01-01-2013, 04:07 PM

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/87...es-broken-ribs

Looked hurt basically the whole year, cant wait to see him next year.

Notredameleo · 01-01-2013, 04:22 PM

1: Wilson
2: RGIII
3: Luck

Which is funny, because if I ranked them by how much I liked them, it would be the exact opposite. Although I like all three.

xjxdarren · 01-01-2013, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

THe LuckHuggers don't count this because it wasn't a pass.
Not as important or impressive unless it was a pass.

Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Drew Brees send their respective condolences to a lost cause.

G Mobile · 01-01-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

LMAO!!!
Classic right there.

So erase all the stats and let's just let you put in your professional expert analysis, since you watched all the games live, and with coach film, and since you evaluates the opponents and their level, and each QB's supporting cast and their performences. And the weather. And the refs calls, etc.

Just erase the stats, ignore em, and go by what you would like the stats to mean.

"Context"... LOL !

Classic right here.

He never said stats are completely worthless. You are the only one saying that at anytime. Stats should help an argument not be the only important thing. You act like people not picking Griffin means we are directly attacking him and saying he sucks. We all like Griffin, but some disagree who is RoY. Quit being childish with the "Luckhugger" quips too.

LOL !