2012 NFL Wild Card Weekend Discussion Thread.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by Halsey

Shanahan would be getting criticized had he chosen to force Griffin to sit the game out.

Nah. If Shanny'd pulled him, everyone would ignore Shanny and the world would all call RGIII a giant vajayjay for not grimacing enough when the cameras zoomed in on him on the sideline.

Reference: 2010-2011 NFC Championship game.

LOLNFL.

[TACKLE]

Originally Posted by MetSox17

He's responsible for the well being of the franchise, which is directly related to the well being of RG3. Him risking his QB further is greatly risking the future success of the team he is paid to have succeed.

He's responsible for winning football games.

There isn't a coach or player in the league who will tell you in the moment that trying to win playoff games is not in the team's best interest. There isn't a coach or player who will tell you that winning playoff games is not what's best for the team's well-being.

It was a situation where there was really no right answer for either side. Because of that, I'm reluctant to place blame on either Shanny or Griffin. Both knew the circumstances, both had the information before the game about his knee (Griffin obviously had more info because he actually knew hoe it felt) and both just badly wanted to win a playoff game. But to suggest that Shanahan didn't care about RG3's health and that torn/re-torn ligament in Griffin's knee almost solely because of the head coach seems like bull to me.

[SuperPacker]

Shanahan becomes more responsible for RG3's health when he gets given the power to choose whether or not he plays. If Shanahan says he's playing, he plays, if he says he isn't, he won't. The decision is his, therefore he is more responsible.

Originally Posted by Cigaro

Come on man, not that far above you:

And about 5 other examples on previous pages! Sherman <3

[Eazy Picks]

i dont blame shanny for starting RG3, but after he came up limping on that sideline play right before it was 14-0, they shoulda pulled him. he was clearly hurt and not effective either. maybe they even hold onto that 14-0 lead with kirk cousins in there. i love rg3, but hes not so great when hes all gimpy, i think id rather have cousins at that point...not to mention of course protecting the future of the franchise, its not like theyre gonna win a SB this year....I think RG3 will be fine though and healed up in time for minicamps...but yea shannys an ass for the way he played this...plus the whole story with james andrews not gettin a look at him...yikes...never been a fan of shanny not gonna start now

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by TACKLE

When did the head coach become more responsible for the physical well-being of the each individual player than the individual players themselves?

All the time? What player isn't going to say "I'm ok coach put me in". I don't know why everyone is focusing on what RGIII told Shanny and how he probably said he was ok to play, because all that aside it was blatantly obvious he wasn't ok when you watched the game. At that point you don't need him to tell you about how good he feels because he's limping around vs a defense that could easily make an injury like that go from bad to terrible in a second.


But hey, maybe he should always just listen to what Griffin says in terms of how he feels or if he can play. If they want to ruin his career before it even gets started fine by me, but I just think that it was clear to anyone watching the game what physical condition he was in.


edit: Also Shanny already has a history here. RGIII had a concussion prior this year and they hid that injury which cost them a 25k fine, then Dr Andrews says that he never gave him the green light to go back in vs Baltimore. Where there's smoke....

[DiG]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

edit: Also Shanny already has a history here. RGIII had a concussion prior this year and they hid that injury which cost them a 25k fine, then Dr Andrews says that he never gave him the green light to go back in vs Baltimore. Where there's smoke....

F that. What do we pay you for Andrews?!?!?! You aren't paid to sit on the sideline with your head between your legs. You have one job. Test and conclude. Either he can or cannot go back in and if you don't make that call and tell Shanahan that RG3 isn't good to go back in then don't start crying for attention and publicity after the fact, in hindsight that you didnt give it a "green light". Guess what you didnt give it a red or yellow either. That's your FING job. If the medical staff doesn't give it the axe and RG3 continues to insist its just pain that he can play through then I'm sorry you can't pin that on Shanny. With what WE know, no one was necessarily in the wrong. IF the medical staff did not think he should play but did not say such, then they are the only ones that are to blame.

[Jvig43]

Haha well congratulations then, enjoy your broken first round QB that you traded three 1sts for a single appearance in the playoffs. That certainly is more important to a franchise and HC then sustained success.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by DiG

F that. What do we pay you for Andrews?!?!?! You aren't paid to sit on the sideline with your head between your legs. You have one job. Test and conclude. Either he can or cannot go back in and if you don't make that call and tell Shanahan that RG3 isn't good to go back in then don't start crying for attention and publicity after the fact, in hindsight that you didnt give it a "green light". Guess what you didnt give it a red or yellow either. That's your FING job. If the medical staff doesn't give it the axe and RG3 continues to insist its just pain that he can play through then I'm sorry you can't pin that on Shanny. With what WE know, no one was necessarily in the wrong. IF the medical staff did not think he should play but did not say such, then they are the only ones that are to blame.

Andrews actually came out and stated that Shanahan wouldn't let him evaluate RG3 in the Baltimore game

[DiG]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Andrews actually came out and stated that Shanahan wouldn't let him evaluate RG3 in the Baltimore game

That's disputed and I don't believe for a second that a coach did not allow medical staff to do an evaluation. If it turns out that is the case then absolutely the coach is to blame.

Shanahan said he let Griffin return with the blessing of James Andrews, the renowned orthopedic surgeon, who was on the sideline.

Andrews, however, told USA TODAY Sports on Saturday that he never cleared Griffin to go back into the game, because he never even examined him.

"(Griffin) didn't even let us look at him," Andrews said. "He came off the field, walked through the sidelines, circled back through the players and took off back to the field. It wasn't our opinion.

"We didn't even get to touch him or talk to him. Scared the hell out of me."

Yet when asked by news reporters, Shanahan described a conversation with Andrews this way:

"He's on the sidelines with Dr. Andrews. He had a chance to look at him and he said he could go back in," Shanahan said Dec. 10. "(I said) 'Hey, Dr. Andrews, can Robert go back in?'

'Yeah, he can go back in.'

'Robert, go back in.'

"That was it," Shanahan said.

[SuperPacker]

Originally Posted by DiG

That's disputed and I don't believe for a second that a coach did not allow medical staff to do an evaluation. If it turns out that is the case then absolutely the coach is to blame.

So basically you just believe what you want to believe when it suits your argument.

[njx9]

everyone likes rg3, so it can't be his fault, because he's just a stupid player and he has no responsibility for his own health, so it's totally ok that he thinks he can go back in, even when he personally knows he's making the team worse by doing so. no, it's all shanahan's fault. because the players are really just like large kindergartners, who have no personal responsibility whatsoever.

it's not even surprising to me anymore how far people will go to make excuses when they like the player/coach/team/whatever.

rg3 was a ******* moron for going back in. shanahan was a ******* moron for playing him. i have no idea why anyone is trying to push the idea that one of them is any ******* stupider than the other, aside from deliberate and active dishonesty.

[SuperPacker]

Originally Posted by njx9

everyone likes rg3, so it can't be his fault, because he's just a stupid player and he has no responsibility for his own health, so it's totally ok that he thinks he can go back in, even when he personally knows he's making the team worse by doing so. no, it's all shanahan's fault. because the players are really just like large kindergartners, who have no personal responsibility whatsoever.

it's not even surprising to me anymore how far people will go to make excuses when they like the player/coach/team/whatever.

rg3 was a ******* moron for going back in. shanahan was a ******* moron for playing him. i have no idea why anyone is trying to push the idea that one of them is any ******* stupider than the other, aside from deliberate and active dishonesty.

Obviously RG3 has to take some of the blame, no one is arguing that, but at the end of the day, Shanahan is the coach and is the one who decides. He has the final say, not Robert Griffin. He could've easily seen RG3 on the field when he first started limping and taken him out straight away. From that point on you don't listen to what the player is saying, that's just common sense when dealing with players desperate to be on the field no matter what. If Shanahan was actually listening to RG3 after the first injury then he's a ******* idiot.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by njx9

everyone likes rg3, so it can't be his fault, because he's just a stupid player and he has no responsibility for his own health, so it's totally ok that he thinks he can go back in, even when he personally knows he's making the team worse by doing so. no, it's all shanahan's fault. because the players are really just like large kindergartners, who have no personal responsibility whatsoever.

it's not even surprising to me anymore how far people will go to make excuses when they like the player/coach/team/whatever.

rg3 was a ******* moron for going back in. shanahan was a ******* moron for playing him. i have no idea why anyone is trying to push the idea that one of them is any ******* stupider than the other, aside from deliberate and active dishonesty.

I agree completely. Both made huge errors. The culture in the NFL is to deny injury and play through pain. Of course RG3 was going to want to go back out there regardless of whether or not he thought his play would actually hinder the team. Shanahan also needs to realise this. By all accounts it is RG3's personality as both a player and a leader to push himself through these situations but as the head coach Shanny needs to make the decision and not leave it up to the player

[DiG]

Originally Posted by SuperPacker

So basically you just believe what you want to believe when it suits your argument.

No. I read and listen to all sides and then make a judgement until there is concrete evidence to prove otherwise. My argument is based on that and I've clearly stated that if it was proven that Shanahan went against the advice of medical clearance that my opinion would be different

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by njx9

everyone likes rg3, so it can't be his fault, because he's just a stupid player and he has no responsibility for his own health, so it's totally ok that he thinks he can go back in, even when he personally knows he's making the team worse by doing so. no, it's all shanahan's fault. because the players are really just like large kindergartners, who have no personal responsibility whatsoever.

it's not even surprising to me anymore how far people will go to make excuses when they like the player/coach/team/whatever.

rg3 was a ******* moron for going back in. shanahan was a ******* moron for playing him. i have no idea why anyone is trying to push the idea that one of them is any ******* stupider than the other, aside from deliberate and active dishonesty.

You don't think it's clearly on Shannahan when he watched his offense go in the tank for 3 full quarters nearly and his QB limp around all over the place? Coaches manage the game for a reason, even if I did have a stupid player on my team I certainly wouldn't just let him be stupid as the Coach of the team because he can police himself.


It would be a wreck if coaches just went around asking everybody "are you good enough to play" and if they say yes throw them out there. I don't even like RGIII personally as he's not my favorite player or anything, but no way I'd want him in that situation especially not with a lead at the time.

[DiG]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

You don't think it's clearly on Shannahan when he watched his offense go in the tank for 3 full quarters nearly and his QB limp around all over the place?

I think it's on the other Shanahan for not adjusting the gameplan once it was evident that the medical staff was not keeping RG3 out and that he was hindered from executing the original game plan. I don't know why no one has brought up Kyle in this.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

You don't think it's clearly on Shannahan when he watched his offense go in the tank for 3 full quarters nearly and his QB limp around all over the place? Coaches manage the game for a reason, even if I did have a stupid player on my team I certainly wouldn't just let him be stupid as the Coach of the team because he can police himself.


It would be a wreck if coaches just went around asking everybody "are you good enough to play" and if they say yes throw them out there. I don't even like RGIII personally as he's not my favorite player or anything, but no way I'd want him in that situation especially not with a lead at the time.

i think it's clearly on both of them. griffin knew he was hurt. he's either an idiot, or he knew he was hurting the team by being on the field when he couldn't effectively plant and throw. and he kept going back out. the player has just as much responsibility as the coach. the player should know when they're not capable of competing at their best, and the coach should see that they're struggling. both failed, or both let their ego get in the way.

Originally Posted by SuperPacker

Obviously RG3 has to take some of the blame, no one is arguing that, but at the end of the day, Shanahan is the coach and is the one who decides. He has the final say, not Robert Griffin. He could've easily seen RG3 on the field when he first started limping and taken him out straight away. From that point on you don't listen to what the player is saying, that's just common sense when dealing with players desperate to be on the field no matter what. If Shanahan was actually listening to RG3 after the first injury then he's a ******* idiot.

oh stop it, nearly everyone is arguing that rg3 doesn't take any blame, because it's not his fault because every player would say they're fine, or some other nonsense. further, griffin ALSO has the final say. if he told shanahan that he couldn't go back out, what, specifically, do you think shanahan is going to do to change that? they're both morons, and they both negatively impacted the redskins ability to win.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Fans are so fickle.
Weren't we calling Jay Cutler the Punk Of the Year for tapping out of a playoff game last year??

[Giantsfan1080]

RGIII after the game said he knew he was still the best option for the team even with him hobbling around. He's clearly just as big of a moron as Shanny.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Fans are so fickle.
Weren't we calling Jay Cutler the Punk Of the Year for tapping out of a playoff game last year??

'we' weren't calling him anything. some folks were just giddy that they could talk **** about him for some reason other than the apparent fact that he's a 'douchebag', though no one can ever actually explain why.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Fans are so fickle.
Weren't we calling Jay Cutler the Punk Of the Year for tapping out of a playoff game last year??

Basically the way a lot of fans and particularly the media are is if something goes wrong then no matter what the decision is they will criticise it. Jay Cutler doesn't come back and he doesn't have the necessary toughness. RG3 stays in and he hurts the team by being headstrong.

But it happens all the time. Take the Pats/Colts a few years ago - the infamous 4th and 2 game. If the Pats punt and Manning drives the length of the field and scores then people will say Belichick should have trusted Brady to take the game out of Manning's hands. But since they went for it and failed Belichick is an egomaniac who made the wrong decision.

To put it simply, if there is a tough call to make and whatever decision you made goes wrong then it was the wrong decision. That's just the culture of NFL fans and media.

To me though this latest one can absolutely be criticised though. We didn't know what would happen if Cutler came back in. We didn't know what would happen if the Pats punted. However we could all see with our own eyes that since RG3 initially hurt himself the Redskins offense could not get anything going. The Seahawks didn't take the lead until the 4th, RG3 got hurt in the 1st. The decision could have been made at any stage in between based on tangible evidence.

[Giantsfan1080]

Well I personally didn't bash Cutler at all for that game so I can continue to speak my mind on the idiotic thoughts of both Griffin and Shanny yesterday. Generalizing the NFL fan base as a whole is also pretty dumb.

[Jvig43]

Originally Posted by njx9

'we' weren't calling him anything. some folks were just giddy that they could talk **** about him for some reason other than the apparent fact that he's a 'douchebag', though no one can ever actually explain why.

I mean his general bitchiness when he forced his way out of Denver didn't sit well with alot of people, although in hindsight that was probably a good call. Then you have the pouting to the sideline game this year, and when his OC sat down to talk to him he just got up and ignored him. Before anyone knew the extent of that injury he suffered in the NFC championship that year, it did look like he was being a pouty ***** again.

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by DiG

I think it's on the other Shanahan for not adjusting the gameplan once it was evident that the medical staff was not keeping RG3 out and that he was hindered from executing the original game plan. I don't know why no one has brought up Kyle in this.

I thought the game plan was adjusted right from the start of the game. It was pretty obvious they weren't going to run any read option plays for Griffin. I was surpised to see so many toss sweeps from the Redskins.

At some point this becomes a real tough decision for everyone involved. Obviously they think the player's situation isn't going to get any worse if they put him out there. Shanahan didn't last this long in the NFL by being a complete moron.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by Babylon

Obviously they think the player's situation isn't going to get any worse if they put him out there.

Except that was already proved wrong and if that is what anybody thought they were incredibly stupid. Doesn't take a Doctor to figure that out.