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Old 04-02-2007, 04:35 PM    (permalink
Big Mike
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Originally Posted by umphrey View Post
Mcnabb is as good as Peyton, he just has **** for WRs and gets hurt every year.

Romo will be inconsitently average.

Manning will continue to be inconsistent and overrated by most of the football world, lots of ints and poor completion % but still have a good amount of TDs and yards.

Campell will suck, the Redskins will have a ****** year and the Redskins will be taking a QB high next year.
THATS EXACTTLY WHAT I SAY!!!!!
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't say he played very, very good in that game. He played well when it mattered down the stretch and yes, he made an outstanding throw because Will Demps is our FS to Witten, you are right about that one. But he did throw those INTs and fumble (something he made a habit of in December) and overall played an average game. He looked flustered and like i said, defenses picked up that he is at his worst when forced to stay in the pocket.

Again, I am not saying he will regress and if I had to put money on it, I would say he'd be a top 6 QB in the NFC this year. But he finished weak, not awful, but weak.

He played an excellent game, there is no arguing that. You said that "the month of December was his downfall", and you want to include the first game of December in that mix simply because of the arbitrary marker of the turning of the calendar from November to December. I'm telling you, his problems did not begin until the New Orleans game (in which he wasn't that bad) and continued in the Philly game (in which he was very bad), but those two games were sandwiched between games that he was very good. The Giants game, though, was one of his best, even though the statistics don't reflect that. He made every big play he needed to make in that game to win it, including one of the best QB plays of the year by anyone.

The ridiculous assertion that "defenses had figured him out" is way overblown. That's like saying that defenses had figured Donovan out, or defenses had figured Hasselbeck out, etc. The only thing that could possibly reference is that he is at his best when he gets out of the pocket, but stopping him from doing that is easier said than done. And beyond that, he made plenty of plays from inside the pocket. It's not like its outside: good, inside: bad. That's stupid.

Anyhow, to put the numbers in perspective, in the final 4 games (where the team struggled visibly, along with Romo at times), if you were to eliminate the rest of the season, and just go with his numbers, he would still have outproduced Eli Manning for the season:

Name......Att pg....Comp pg....%.....YPG.....YPA.....TD%.....Int%....Rat
Romo.......30.8.......18.8........61.....247.5.... .8.05....4.9......4.9.....82.5
Eli...........32.6........18.8.......58......202.. .....6.21....4.6......3.4.....77.0

As you can see, if Romo's finish to the season is such cause for concern, and "defenses figured him out", then what is there to say for Eli, who has had 4x the game-time experience, and supposedly has so much more natural talent?
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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so it begins....
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Well... my predictions...

McNabb - Will do great, but won't be able to finish the season, 10-13 games, no more, but will do very well in all those games.

Romo - Will do well, but won't live up to the hype. Above average but he's not gonna dominate or anything.

Campbell - Will do better than expected, but since nobody's expecting much of anything, that doesn't say much. He'll do okay, but no more than that.

E.Manning - in short, the struggle between Eli Manning and the NFL will go into it's fourth round, he'll struggle, will have a better season yardage and td wise, simply because Tiki's gone, but as a result also a few extra INTs.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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just so no one is confused, I'm in no way saying that Tony Romo is a lock for being an upper-tier QB next season, or moving forward. In fact, he scares me more than any other single aspect of our team for next season. He really did show some things that are big-time causes for concern, and if he doesn't correct them soon, than we are going to have a very frustrating future looking at us in the face. Something along the lines of the Seattle Seahawks with Dave Kreig back in the 80s. That would be absolutely devastating.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine View Post
just so no one is confused, I'm in no way saying that Tony Romo is a lock for being an upper-tier QB next season, or moving forward. In fact, he scares me more than any other single aspect of our team for next season. He really did show some things that are big-time causes for concern, and if he doesn't correct them soon, than we are going to have a very frustrating future looking at us in the face. Something along the lines of the Seattle Seahawks with Dave Kreig back in the 80s. That would be absolutely devastating.
While everyone here will hype up their respective qbs, I think the honest truth is that all 4 have serious questions and causes for concern.

Romo as you stated could be a problem if he doesn't improve his passing from inside the pocket.

Campbell could very well have a sophomore slump

McNabb has injury concerns, and they lost Stallworth who was a big part of their offense when healthy

Eli has no Tiki, an aging Toomer and Diehl at LT, so his accuracy issues can resurface like it did in the 2nd half of this past year.

So who knows what will happen. I really have no idea myself. I think all 4 teams have solid qbs and all 4 have potential of having franchise qbs for the future, but to rank them right now is very difficult. Too much going on around them for us to do a straight up evaluation of that nature.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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about damn time.
Im just so tired of NFC East threads nowadays. Im here now for almost a year, and its gotten painfully redundant to me. Its the same blah blah blah over and over again.

I think Im gonna avoid NFC East threads this offseason. Or at least I'll try to.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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you won't be successful. i try to avoid certain subjects, but it's just too annoying to know that someone is in there saying something moronic and that some kid actually believes him because there's no one there to tell him how stupid he sounds.
Same here.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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Yeah...I guess Im doomed for the same fate. The second I see someone post

"Roy Williams is the big1111!!!!" I know I won't be able to hold back.

Oh well.

Me and DMW have good arguments. We agree on alot of things, and we keep it respectful on the things we disagree on.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to stay out of this one and hope the discussion dies. I would love to lock fans of the NFC East teams out of this discussion and only allow "unbiased" fans to post here.

I will say that all 4 QB's have the ability to be fantastic, and they also have question marks that could lead to a downfall. I think coaching and execution will be paramount here.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Yeah...I guess Im doomed for the same fate. The second I see someone post

"Roy Williams is the big1111!!!!" I know I won't be able to hold back.

Oh well.

Me and DMW have good arguments. We agree on alot of things, and we keep it respectful on the things we disagree on.
I wish I could say the same thing with the people I butt head with on the certain controversial, polarizing, Falcons player.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to stay out of this one and hope the discussion dies. I would love to lock fans of the NFC East teams out of this discussion and only allow "unbiased" fans to post here.

I will say that all 4 QB's have the ability to be fantastic, and they also have question marks that could lead to a downfall. I think coaching and execution will be paramount here.
someone rep Bsaza for me. It seems that I cant rep him anymore until tomorrow, and I'll surely forget by then.

The point on coaching and execution is right on the money. Not surprising that I agree with you.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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I wish I could say the same thing with the people I butt head with on the certain controversial, polarizing, Falcons player.
I know...its hard. Real hard. I just ignore the filler arguments as much as I can. Whenever I read "Vick suckz lolz!" I don't even bother responding to it anymore.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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someone rep Bsaza for me. It seems that I cant rep him anymore until tomorrow, and I'll surely forget by then.

The point on coaching and execution is right on the money. Not surprising that I agree with you.
I did it for you.

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I know...its hard. Real hard. I just ignore the filler arguments as much as I can. Whenever I read "Vick suckz lolz!" I don't even bother responding to it anymore.
Hez a runningback!
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Manning - Put into bad spot, no real running game to fall behind. Eli will have a lot of yards, but a bad TD/INT ratio
Put into a bad spot? No real running game?

Did you not realize he had Tiki Barber and Brandon Jacobs to give the ball to? Not to mention a couple of very nice targets in Burress, Shockey, and Toomer.

This is a big year for Eli. If he doesn't produce, I think we can start labeling him as a bust.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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but doesn't it pain you?
I get frustrated sure. It hits home harder when its about a team I know alot about (particularl the NFC East, which is why my convos are usually better in those threads), but what can you do.

I try to ignore it, but just like you and Shiv, I catch myself writing up a long explanation of how I feel on the subject matter.

Which in turn, gets completely overlooked by the people who need to read it the most, and the guys who do read it are usually knowledgeable guys who know better than to say that crap to begin with. So the guys who really need to hear the message end up not getting it at all (mainly because long posts make their little brains hurt), which sort of defeats the purpose of the post to begin with.

But I keep doing it over and over again. For the same reason you guys do. We just love talking football. Thats all there is too it. Anytime we have an excuse to ramble on about our own personal thoughts and views on it, we take the oppurtunity to do so.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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The giants are going to line up and play smash mouth football next year with Brandon Jacobs, so Eli's stats will improve because there will be less pressure on him. I believe that Sinorice Moss will develop and break out, and we will draft another WR on day one. Eli will have more weapons next year, his completion percentage will go up, less INTs, less TDs, less yards, but higher QB rating. As far as the rest of the QBs, they'll have Kiwanuka, Strahan and Umenyiora in their faces the entire game.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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How many times have you seen just in this thread things such as "I never liked Eli coming out of the draft". Or "he was taken way too high in the draft". Eli's struggles are one thing, but I SERIOUSLY doubt this many people felt that way about him during the draft process.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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we are all self-aggrandizing jerks. i've come to accept it.

regardless, that's why i dug the "truths" write-ups you and shiver did. they tended to reach the audience well. hopefully the next division write-up does better than the previous two in the same vein.
Oh, I wanted to talk to you about that. Me and Shiv will both be doing an NFL truths thread this year. I think the best way to do it to prevent overlapping ideas, or taking of ideas from eachother is if we both submit our threads to you, and you post our Truths. That way, one of us won't post it before the other.
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Old 04-03-2007, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby View Post
The giants are going to line up and play smash mouth football next year with Brandon Jacobs, so Eli's stats will improve because there will be less pressure on him. I believe that Sinorice Moss will develop and break out, and we will draft another WR on day one. Eli will have more weapons next year, his completion percentage will go up, less INTs, less TDs, less yards, but higher QB rating. As far as the rest of the QBs, they'll have Kiwanuka, Strahan and Umenyiora in their faces the entire game.
Ricky, the Giants need to draft another WR or 2 in this draft because their talent is aging or unproven after Burress. Fact is, even Burress is getting older. It has nothing to do with Sinorice Moss's development. Of course, if he is able to contribute, that helps them tremendously.

In 2007-2008, Eli will be forced to develop. With Tiki gone, Burress will be doubled even more constantly. That means that Jacobs, Moss, Shockey, and Toomer will have to do damage for the Giants to move the ball. If Eli can make the adjustments, he will have a good year, perhaps even a great year. If he cannot, the Giants are pretty much doomed.
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Old 04-03-2007, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Right now I'm more confident of Jacobs filling Tiki shoes than I am Eli taking it to the next level. I honestly don't think there will be as big of a drop off in the running game as everyone thinks. I'm loving Jacobs already. Some gems he has dropped so far. In response to the Giants opening with Dallas, Jacobs commented "Good, I hate Dallas". In response to the Eagles getting Takeo Spikes Jacbos commented "Just one more person for me to hit".
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Old 04-03-2007, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Ricky, the Giants need to draft another WR or 2 in this draft because their talent is aging or unproven after Burress. Fact is, even Burress is getting older. It has nothing to do with Sinorice Moss's development. Of course, if he is able to contribute, that helps them tremendously.

In 2007-2008, Eli will be forced to develop. With Tiki gone, Burress will be doubled even more constantly. That means that Jacobs, Moss, Shockey, and Toomer will have to do damage for the Giants to move the ball. If Eli can make the adjustments, he will have a good year, perhaps even a great year. If he cannot, the Giants are pretty much doomed.
I hate to be the one to say it (actually, I don't, but I'm trying to be polite) but weren't you gonna... oh I don't know...

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Old 04-03-2007, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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I was talking about Eli Manning, not a comparison between the QB's. Technically, I backed off. It was a comment solely about the Giants.
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Old 04-03-2007, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Alright, fine. I lied. I attempted to stay out of the conversation, and I was unable to. I am weak!
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Old 04-03-2007, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bsaza2358 View Post
Ricky, the Giants need to draft another WR or 2 in this draft because their talent is aging or unproven after Burress. Fact is, even Burress is getting older. It has nothing to do with Sinorice Moss's development. Of course, if he is able to contribute, that helps them tremendously.

In 2007-2008, Eli will be forced to develop. With Tiki gone, Burress will be doubled even more constantly. That means that Jacobs, Moss, Shockey, and Toomer will have to do damage for the Giants to move the ball. If Eli can make the adjustments, he will have a good year, perhaps even a great year. If he cannot, the Giants are pretty much doomed.
Call me crazy, but I think that the fortunes of the Giants passing game lies in how early and often Coughlin can get Shockey involved.
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