What do you expect from the NFC East Quarterbacks??? - Page 4

bigbluedefense · 04-03-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

Or maybe the fact that with every insult someone has about his passing attack they fail ever mention one thing about how great his rushing attack is. I love Tiki, but he wasn't anything but an extremely mediocre RB before Coughlin came. These three years under Coughlin can be compared to any three years a RB has ever put up in the histroy of the NFL. Including Jim Brown.

This is true. And while I do give Coughlin credit for Tiki and the run game...why the hell didn't he use it more?

With our run game, why didn't we try to use it to keep defenses honest? Why are we going empty set in the redzone? Why aren't we uses PA pass in the redzone?

As good as our offense was, anyone who watches the Giants knows it couldve and shouldve been better. And thats because Coughlin didn't use his parts properly.

We couldve used Tiki in the pass game much more too. We never lined him up wide, we rarely ran him in the flats. He was just a 4 yard up the middle dump off. We couldve done so much more with him.

Number 10 · 04-03-2007, 01:51 PM

Coughlin is not as bad is some make him out to be, but I don't see him as a Super Bowl coach to be blunt.

And our main coaching issues lie within the coordinators and certain positional coaches who seem to have too much power now a days.

Jughead10 · 04-03-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number 10

Coughlin is not as bad is some make him out to be, but I don't see him as a Super Bowl coach to be blunt.

And our main coaching issues lie within the coordinators and certain positional coaches who seem to have too much power now a days.

This is true. To me Coughlin's biggest flaw, and it was huge one, was his loyalty to assitants no matter how terrible they were. That being said I could definately see a difference in playcalling the last two games of the year with Gilbride as OC.

bsaza2358 · 04-03-2007, 01:56 PM

There's nothing wrong with loyalty. IMO, loyalty to one's team, players, and colleagues has been lost as a valuable and honored trait in pro sports. If anything, I give Coughlin a ton of credit for sticking with his guys and putting his own reputation on the line.

bigbluedefense · 04-03-2007, 01:56 PM

I hope I see changes, but Im not expecting it. Look guys, its Coughlin who runs the offense. Huffnagel was a puppet. This was Coughlin's playbook. And Gilbride already publicly said he wants to go vertical more, ie we're gonna do the same junk again this year. You want a change on offense, then TC has got to go. You might see some new wrinkles, but this offense will be very similar to the one we were all bitchin about this past year.

Jughead10 · 04-03-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsaza2358

What does Tiki's success have to do with the fact that Coughlin hasn't helped Eli Manning make the necessary adjustments to be an All-Pro NFL QB? I'm not arguing that Tiki's turnaround wasn't driven by Coughlin. I believe the point was that the lack of in-game adjustments and the offensive scheme were lacking for the Giants. The regression of Eli in the second half of the last 2 seasons is also becoming a consistent pattern. At what point do you blame the coach for those issues?

1. Perhaps Eli isn't as good as we all want him to be. I'm becoming more accepting of that fact every day.

2. I was just making a general statement. Coughlin gets a lot of crap in the media. And its all not nearly warranted. He gets a lot of the blame for Eli's troubles and the passing game, but then on the other side Tiki gets all the credit for the rushing attack. The media in NY hates him, for various political and personal reasons. When attempting to criticize Coughlin they are trying to have their cake and eat it too.

bsaza2358 · 04-03-2007, 02:02 PM

I don't think that's the case on this forum, where people are giving mostly unbiased opinions and analysis. You can expect even-handed discourse from the known posters here. When I hear something from you, #10, or BBD, I take it as quality work. As for your points:

1. Eli has all the skills, and he has put up numbers in crunch time and against excellent teams early in the season. It's not like he always dominates the little guys and always struggles in big spots.

2. Coughlin does take a lot of crap, but he's not beyond reproach. Whenever a team is hanging with the Giants at halftime, they have an excellent chance to win if they can adjust and execute because Coughlin and his guys are slower to adjust than other teams. That is a calling card of Coughlin even when he was with the Jaguars.

Overall, I'm not one to critique or give crap to someone unless I believe it is warranted. In this case, I see a Giants team that has underachieved the last 2 seasons. I've seen them win close games sometimes, but lose more winnable games than they should. The players deserve some of the blame, but the coach deserves some as well.

bigbluedefense · 04-03-2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

1. Perhaps Eli isn't as good as we all want him to be. I'm becoming more accepting of that fact every day.

2. I was just making a general statement. Coughlin gets a lot of crap in the media. And its all not nearly warranted. He gets a lot of the blame for Eli's troubles and the passing game, but then on the other side Tiki gets all the credit for the rushing attack. The media in NY hates him, for various political and personal reasons. When attempting to criticize Coughlin they are trying to have their cake and eat it too.

Eli can be a very good qb. The one game where TC actually did what we all wanted him to do all season long was the 2nd game against Dallas.

That game, he gave Eli the short and intermediate routes we've all been begging him to give him. The results?

24/36
270 Yards
2 TDs
0 INTs

The ONE time we adjusted the playbook to make life easier on Eli, he does that. But it resulted in a loss, not because of Eli, but the defense, but whatever. We lost, and because of that, we went right back to the same old bs.

This is why Coughlin holds Eli back. Eli has what it takes, but he's not Peyton. You can't give Eli the same scheme that Peyton thrives at, and assume just bc theyre brothers, that Eli will run it well too. Eli needs more intermediate and short routes for his game. Thats what he needs. And Coughlin doesn't give it to him.

Its also no coincidence that Eli had his best #s in the no huddle.

Why?

Because our no huddle had intermediate and short routes in it. Our conventional sets dont.

Jughead10 · 04-03-2007, 02:06 PM

We could use more intermediate and short routes, but for one thing Eli underthrows those balls. And another thing, once Amani went out we didn't really have one player capable of really running those routes.

Number 10 · 04-03-2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsaza2358

I don't think that's the case on this forum, where people are giving mostly unbiased opinions and analysis. You can expect even-handed discourse from the known posters here. When I hear something from you, #10, or BBD, I take it as quality work. As for your points:

1. Eli has all the skills, and he has put up numbers in crunch time and against excellent teams early in the season. It's not like he always dominates the little guys and always struggles in big spots.

2. Coughlin does take a lot of crap, but he's not beyond reproach. Whenever a team is hanging with the Giants at halftime, they have an excellent chance to win if they can adjust and execute because Coughlin and his guys are slower to adjust than other teams. That is a calling card of Coughlin even when he was with the Jaguars.

Overall, I'm not one to critique or give crap to someone unless I believe it is warranted. In this case, I see a Giants team that has underachieved the last 2 seasons. I've seen them win close games sometimes, but lose more winnable games than they should. The players deserve some of the blame, but the coach deserves some as well.

Right back at you Bzaza....but don't keep Jug out of that compliment. He might be one of the more level-headed posters on the entire board.

bsaza2358 · 04-03-2007, 02:09 PM

I was talking back to Jug, so he was instantly included in that compliment. Sorry if there was any confusion.

Number 10 · 04-03-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsaza2358

I was talking back to Jug, so he was instantly included in that compliment. Sorry if there was any confusion.

Oh I see that now, my bad.

Eagles still suck though.

bigbluedefense · 04-03-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number 10

Oh I see that now, my bad.

Eagles still suck though.

Lol, it was due sooner or later.

They got the last laugh though.

Damn you run defense. Damn you to hell.

bsaza2358 · 04-03-2007, 02:11 PM

If making the playoffs 6 of 7 years and being considered one of the 5 best-run franchises in recent history sucks, I guess my favorite team sucks...

Addict · 04-03-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number 10

Oh I see that now, my bad.

Eagles still suck though.

lol. That's right, give 'em an inch, they take a mile, way to go preventing that!

bsaza2358 · 04-03-2007, 02:15 PM

At least the Giants have won a division title in recent memory. The Eagles and Giants have split the last 8.

1999 (Giants)
2000 (Eagles)
2001 (Eagles)
2002 (Eagles)
2003 (Eagles)
2004 (Eagles)
2005 (Giants)
2006 (Eagles)

bigbluedefense · 04-03-2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsaza2358

At least the Giants have won a division title in recent memory. The Eagles and Giants have split the last 8.

1999 (Giants)
2000 (Eagles)
2001 (Eagles)
2002 (Eagles)
2003 (Eagles)
2004 (Eagles)
2005 (Giants)
2006 (Eagles)

I didn't even realize that. For all the Washington and Dallas chit chat, we seem to be the only ones who have some sort of right to talk junk.

Ironically, most of us don't. Both Eagles and Giants fans that is. Except the filler homers that come and go.

bsaza2358 · 04-03-2007, 02:22 PM

The Cowboys last won a division title in 1998. The Redskins' last division title was 1991.

bigbluedefense · 04-03-2007, 02:24 PM

I like how we highjacked this thread and took it completely off topic.

Good work men.

bigbluedefense · 04-03-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsaza2358

The Cowboys last won a division title in 1998. The Redskins' last division title was 1991.

I remember that 91 skin team. Very underrated imo. While most give the 90s Cowboys credit for being the best oline ever, I believe that the HOGs of the 80s deserve that credit.

3 SBs with 3 different qbs, 4 SB appearances, and all done with high power offenses? Thats amazing.

Teams have won SBs without franchise qbs, but they all did it with defense. Gibbs did it with offense, something I didn't think was possible. And that common denominator was the dominance of the HOGs. Best oline unit ever.

bsaza2358 · 04-03-2007, 02:31 PM

I know this sounds crazy, but I actually liked the 1991 Redskins. The Eagles were good, but I really didn't like Buddy Ryan. At the time, there didn't seem to be anything wrong with rooting for the exciting offensive team. I think I was just hoping for a good Super Bowl at the time (was too young to really recognize that I should never root for division rivals). I remember liking Rypien because he came out of nowhere. I also liked the way Art Monk played the game. Joe Gibbs also reminded me of my grandfather in the way he carried himself.

Addict · 04-03-2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I like how we highjacked this thread and took it completely off topic.

Good work men.

Nobody else remains to post since nobody sees how 'nfc quarterbacks' translates to this... quite funny.

Iamcanadian · 04-03-2007, 02:47 PM

McNabb is clearly the best QB in the NFC East if not the whole NFC, when healthy. If he stays healthy, the Eagles will again dominate the Division, if not they will struggle.

Eli plays for a HC who believes strongly in the run. Still he has made the playoffs 2 out of his 3 years in the league. It will be very interesting to see if his HC turns to him more now that Barber has retired and opens up the passing game. I think his best years are still ahead of him but his OL has become suspect and his HC is definitely on the hot seat. Could turnout to be a real mess in New York.

Campbell is just coming into his own. He's never going to be a spectacular QB but Gibbs will never ask him to be one, just a great game manager. If Washington's pass rush can be upgraded this season, they should at least contend for a Super Bowl appearance. This should be Campbell's year to shine.

Romo is in tough. A lot of high expectations for him without a dominate HC like Parcells who could deflect the criticism. Just have to see which direction he goes in. Nothing is written in stone with Romo.

Jughead10 · 04-03-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Addict

Nobody else remains to post since nobody sees how 'nfc quarterbacks' translates to this... quite funny.

Eh whatever. This discussion was better than 95% of the discussion on these forums wheter it was on topic or not.

LSUALUM99 · 04-03-2007, 03:03 PM

Well, I have to help DMW fend off BBD, Jughead, #10 and bsaza....

Just kidding.

The bottom line is that Romo isn't as good as we thought. Eli isn't as good as NYG thought. Campbell isn't as good as Snyder thought and McNabb is better than Limbaugh thought.

The Eagles are the top 1 or 2 run franchises in the NFL. They should remain the favorite in the division.

Both the Giants and the Cowboys hopes rely on the defense this year, NOT the Quarterback. Average QB play will get both of them in the playoffs with above average Defensive play (which they both should have).

The Redskins MUST have exceptional play from Campbell to get into the playoffs. Not exceptional stats necessarily with Portis and Betts getting alot of playing time next year. He needs efficiency and very low turnover numbers. Their Defense will be average at best next year. They need efficient offense to make the playoffs.