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Old 04-02-2007, 11:19 AM    (permalink
draftguru151
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Default Ted Ginn Jr.

There are about 3 or so threads in the nfl draft section about the Dolphins. The general theme with a few of you is Ted Ginn at #9. I really want to know your explanation of why we should take this guy over any of the other players, especially Robert Meachem. Most of you guys see Ginn's highlights and think this guy is an amazing player because he is fast, the thing is Ginn has so many HUGE weaknesses. He is very undersized, doesn't run good routes and doesn't have good hands. Other than Levi Brown I think Ginn would be the biggest mistake we could make.
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Old 04-02-2007, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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Ginn bad

It isnt even a good type of alcohol


I am on the anti-ginn group as well draftguru (even though we rarely agree).

I would rather draft even a Willis there just for a stud to replace Zach then Ginn.
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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The only way I say we draft Ginn is if he falls into the 2nd round where his return ability will be worth a 2nd alone. Outside of that, Brady Quinn, Alan Branch, Leon Hall, Jamaal Anderson, Robert Mecheam, LaRon Landry, even Patrick Willis and Darrelle Revis are better options then Ted Ginn.
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Old 04-02-2007, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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I concur. Ted Ginn would be a terrible pick, with the newly "Win Now" mentality drafting him would not be a correct choice. How fearless has he proven to be for going over the middle? For all the speed he has, is he even a slasher? Most of the time when he's scoring TDs, he's running in one straight line...
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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Mueller has said time and again that he would like to improve team speed, so you have to assume that Ted Ginn is a possibility at 9. Add that too the fact that he could come in immediately and have an impact as a PR/KR and also play some flanker which would allow Chambers to move back to the position where he had the most success, the slot, and you have to think Ginn garners quite strong interest at 9. Also, where are you getting that Ginn has bad hands? From watching him, he has good hands for a person that that fast that doesn't decelerate when making a catch.
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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Mueller has said time and again that he would like to improve team speed, so you have to assume that Ted Ginn is a possibility at 9. Add that too the fact that he could come in immediately and have an impact as a PR/KR and also play some flanker which would allow Chambers to move back to the position where he had the most success, the slot, and you have to think Ginn garners quite strong interest at 9. Also, where are you getting that Ginn has bad hands? From watching him, he has good hands for a person that that fast that doesn't decelerate when making a catch.
Agree completely.

guru, I agree, he does have a bunch of weaknesses, but all those things are coachable. He can be taught to run crisper routes and to catch the ball different. What you can't teach him is what he already possesses. The ability to make plays. He is a game-changer. A true playmaker with god given ability and speed completely unmatched by anyone else in the NFL, besides maybe Champ, MAYBE. Chambers has said he wants Ginn and I believe it to be because he is just begging for some help on offense. Some consistency. Ginn can come right in and play the slot, catch passes out of the backfield, run gadgets, and give us an immediate impact player on special teams as a returner. I have said this time and time again, he is the biggest impact player in this draft not named Calvin Johnson. He can be coached and that's what will happen. He will be a great player and why not choose a great player.

Who would you rather have? Leon Hall? who isn't even the sure top player at his position. Who the scouts have said is solid at everything but not GREAT at anything, and will never be a shutdown corner in the league. Why would we want that? Okoye doesn't fit our Defense. Alan Branch is not a need considering all the young players we have brought in and accumulated over the years to sure up that position already. You already know why Levi shouldn't be the pick.

The only player I would say should be the pick over Ginn would be LaRon Landry. But my guess is he will already be gone by the time we pick. So unless we trade down, Ginn should be the pick. I believe he is the safest and will make the biggest impact for us right away. Ginn for the Phins in 07 baby!
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Old 04-04-2007, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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Bow, I'll take a complete football player that can handle all aspects of the game and will make a bigger immediate impact then a WR will. Talent isn't every and Ginn has alot fo weaknesses. For all your talk about Ginn being the fastest player in the NFL outside of Champ, you raelly have no idea. He hasn't run a 40 yet. HE seems faster then all the other players and plays fast but the NFL is a much faster game then college. What would you be saying if Ginn came out and ran a 4.36 40. While still very good, I'd rather have Mecheam and his 4.39 40.

The fact that you even said Ginn was one of the safest picks we can make is absurd. The guy is too hurt to do anything in the combine or pro days. How exactly is that safe? Theres more questions about his route running, small frame, and other areas that many of the other WRs in this draft. On top of the fact WR is already the more unsafe position in the draft, Calvin Johnson, Robert Mecheam, Dwyane Bowe, Anthony Gonzalez and Sidney Rice are all safer options. They might not all be as fast or talented but they are definately considered safer at this point. This is a draft that needs to produce a big performer and quick impact and Ginn has the making of a guy that will need work before he is will do anything outside of KR/PR in the NFL.
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Old 04-04-2007, 01:06 AM    (permalink
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Bow, I'll take a complete football player that can handle all aspects of the game and will make a bigger immediate impact then a WR will. Talent isn't every and Ginn has alot fo weaknesses. For all your talk about Ginn being the fastest player in the NFL outside of Champ, you raelly have no idea. He hasn't run a 40 yet. HE seems faster then all the other players and plays fast but the NFL is a much faster game then college. What would you be saying if Ginn came out and ran a 4.36 40. While still very good, I'd rather have Mecheam and his 4.39 40.

The fact that you even said Ginn was one of the safest picks we can make is absurd. The guy is too hurt to do anything in the combine or pro days. How exactly is that safe? Theres more questions about his route running, small frame, and other areas that many of the other WRs in this draft. On top of the fact WR is already the more unsafe position in the draft, Calvin Johnson, Robert Mecheam, Dwyane Bowe, Anthony Gonzalez and Sidney Rice are all safer options. They might not all be as fast or talented but they are definately considered safer at this point. This is a draft that needs to produce a big performer and quick impact and Ginn has the making of a guy that will need work before he is will do anything outside of KR/PR in the NFL.
That's just it though.. that's where his impact will be made.... as a KR/PR, at least right away. We saw it with Devin Hester last year, he won games single-handedly for the bears last year. Ginn can do that for us, plus he is more explosive and hits the hole quicker than Devin Hester. You ask what if he runs a 4.36 40? If he does he does, who cares. We all know he is faster than that. He will run faster than that for sure though, if he doesn't it's because of that strained ankle not being 100%. Heck, every draftnik that knows Ginn says he has World Class speed, so i'm not just making this up, i've seen it everywhere, plus I've watched every game he's played at Ohio State, in depth. But on that subject, I think Hester ran in the mid 4.4's last year, I think almost a 4.5, same thing as Roscoe Parrish when he came out, and both are ELITE returners, so that doesn't mean anything. It's game speed. And Ginn has it. We will see on Sundays. You hate on this man too much, all of you, and all he has ever done is make plays. You can't possibly tell me you would rather have Sidney Rice or Gonzo or Bowe over Ginn. If you do, you need to get you're pulse checked. That's all I gotta say about that.
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Old 04-04-2007, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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First off, Devin Hester ran a 4.27 at his pro day. Roscoe ran a 4.40

You do now take a KR at #9 overall. There are a boatload of guys that can return kicks that can be picked up 2nd day. Ryne Robinson, Steve Breaston, Yamon Figurs, and don't say those guys aren't as dominant as KR as Ginn because all have as many TDs and only Robinson has a lower average.

As a WR Ginn has to many holes to be worthy of the 9th overall pick. If hands are coachable tell that to Troy Williamson. Route running is coachable to an extent but the problem with Ginn is he is a strider and not quick so him running crisp routes is going to be very hard. For Ginn being such a big time playmaker and a guy that can take it to the end zone all the time his ypc isn't very high. He averages 13 ypc, Meachem averages 18. Meachem can burn people just like Ginn, but he can also do other things, Ginn can't. Ginn doesn't juke people, he isn't that good on screens unless he can just run. You can't just run by people in the NFL.

As for who else I would have, at WR, I'd rather have both Meachem and Bowe. I'd also rather have Joe Staley or Greg Olsen. On defense I would take Leon Hall or Chris Houston over Ginn. As for Hall, who says that? Listen to people who know what they are talking about, Hall is the consensus #1 CB. Mel Kiper has one CB in his top 25, at #9, Leon Hall. Mike Mayock says he is the consensus #1 CB. No one else in this class is on his level. There is no such thing as a lock down CB anymore. Even Champ Bailey gets burnt (quite a bit 2 seasons ago), Leon Hall is ready to step in day 1 and start at CB and be at worst the #2 CB. Hall has nearly everything you look for in a CB. I'm realizing you are just an OSU homer and you probably hate Michigan players but Hall is way better than Ginn as a prospect.
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Old 04-04-2007, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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First off, Devin Hester ran a 4.27 at his pro day. Roscoe ran a 4.40

You do now take a KR at #9 overall. There are a boatload of guys that can return kicks that can be picked up 2nd day. Ryne Robinson, Steve Breaston, Yamon Figurs, and don't say those guys aren't as dominant as KR as Ginn because all have as many TDs and only Robinson has a lower average.

As a WR Ginn has to many holes to be worthy of the 9th overall pick. If hands are coachable tell that to Troy Williamson. Route running is coachable to an extent but the problem with Ginn is he is a strider and not quick so him running crisp routes is going to be very hard. For Ginn being such a big time playmaker and a guy that can take it to the end zone all the time his ypc isn't very high. He averages 13 ypc, Meachem averages 18. Meachem can burn people just like Ginn, but he can also do other things, Ginn can't. Ginn doesn't juke people, he isn't that good on screens unless he can just run. You can't just run by people in the NFL.

As for who else I would have, at WR, I'd rather have both Meachem and Bowe. I'd also rather have Joe Staley or Greg Olsen. On defense I would take Leon Hall or Chris Houston over Ginn. As for Hall, who says that? Listen to people who know what they are talking about, Hall is the consensus #1 CB. Mel Kiper has one CB in his top 25, at #9, Leon Hall. Mike Mayock says he is the consensus #1 CB. No one else in this class is on his level. There is no such thing as a lock down CB anymore. Even Champ Bailey gets burnt (quite a bit 2 seasons ago), Leon Hall is ready to step in day 1 and start at CB and be at worst the #2 CB. Hall has nearly everything you look for in a CB. I'm realizing you are just an OSU homer and you probably hate Michigan players but Hall is way better than Ginn as a prospect.
THat was cute. It made me chuckle... thank you. And no I'm not an OSU homer. I actually HATE the buckeyes. I am a Hurricanes fan.

I just think Ted Ginn will be a GREAT player in the NFL, and for all your hating on him with his route running and ability to catch the ball, he did have his best games against the two top corners in this years draft. Vs. Michigan and Leon Hall and also Vs. Texas and Aaron Ross. Especially Aaron Ross, who he made his ***** for the night. Oh and I think Aaron Ross went on to win the Thorpe award for the top defensive back. If my memory serves me correct.

So keep hatin on him.... we'll see.
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Old 04-04-2007, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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First off, Devin Hester ran a 4.27 at his pro day. Roscoe ran a 4.40

You do now take a KR at #9 overall. There are a boatload of guys that can return kicks that can be picked up 2nd day. Ryne Robinson, Steve Breaston, Yamon Figurs, and don't say those guys aren't as dominant as KR as Ginn because all have as many TDs and only Robinson has a lower average.

As a WR Ginn has to many holes to be worthy of the 9th overall pick. If hands are coachable tell that to Troy Williamson. Route running is coachable to an extent but the problem with Ginn is he is a strider and not quick so him running crisp routes is going to be very hard. For Ginn being such a big time playmaker and a guy that can take it to the end zone all the time his ypc isn't very high. He averages 13 ypc, Meachem averages 18. Meachem can burn people just like Ginn, but he can also do other things, Ginn can't. Ginn doesn't juke people, he isn't that good on screens unless he can just run. You can't just run by people in the NFL.

As for who else I would have, at WR, I'd rather have both Meachem and Bowe. I'd also rather have Joe Staley or Greg Olsen. On defense I would take Leon Hall or Chris Houston over Ginn. As for Hall, who says that? Listen to people who know what they are talking about, Hall is the consensus #1 CB. Mel Kiper has one CB in his top 25, at #9, Leon Hall. Mike Mayock says he is the consensus #1 CB. No one else in this class is on his level. There is no such thing as a lock down CB anymore. Even Champ Bailey gets burnt (quite a bit 2 seasons ago), Leon Hall is ready to step in day 1 and start at CB and be at worst the #2 CB. Hall has nearly everything you look for in a CB. I'm realizing you are just an OSU homer and you probably hate Michigan players but Hall is way better than Ginn as a prospect.
THat was cute. It made me chuckle... thank you. And no I'm not an OSU homer. I actually HATE the buckeyes. I am a Hurricanes fan.

I just think Ted Ginn will be a GREAT player in the NFL, and for all your hating on him with his route running and ability to catch the ball, he did have his best games against the two top corners in this years draft. Vs. Michigan and Leon Hall and also Vs. Texas and Aaron Ross. Especially Aaron Ross, who he made his ***** for the night. Oh and I think Aaron Ross went on to win the Thorpe award for the top defensive back. If my memory serves me correct.

So keep hatin on him.... we'll see. Hope you like the new sig, by the way.
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Old 04-04-2007, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Ted Ginn beat up on Morgan Trent for the most part against UM and Terrell Brown from UT. He beat Hall and Ross as well, but for the most part it were the other two. Having college success means very little, he beats people in college because of his speed, that will not work in the NFL. You hate OSU but you've watched Ginn in every game in depth? Yea, that's doubtful. If you did you would know what's wrong with him. More like you've seen his highlights.
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Old 04-04-2007, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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I came back in here to pretty much post the same thing as guru. He has not shown a dynamic talent for getting open without his speed (that is particularily nil and void in the NFL) and his hands are suspect, contrary to popular belief hands are not generally taught in the NFL, a few teams have execrises to improve the ability I can't remember which, but it is mostly left to the receiver themselves.
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Old 04-04-2007, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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Ted Ginn beat up on Morgan Trent for the most part against UM and Terrell Brown from UT. He beat Hall and Ross as well, but for the most part it were the other two. Having college success means very little, he beats people in college because of his speed, that will not work in the NFL. You hate OSU but you've watched Ginn in every game in depth? Yea, that's doubtful. If you did you would know what's wrong with him. More like you've seen his highlights.
I watched him because I love him as a prospect. And no..... Brown was out for that game against OSU.... I know that. He beat up on Ross all day and Gonzo beat up on the guy replacing Brown. I know that for a FACT. I'm not so sure about the Michigan game but I know I saw him beat Leon Hall a couple times. And yes I do know him and his weaknesses. I don't understand why you believe you know everything, becasue you don't. That statement proves it. It's not the fact that he had success in college, he had success against college players that are NFL prospects as well, the best ones at that with Hall and Ross. And coming from the Big Ten, he faced NFL calibre defenses week in and week out. Which makes me believe he can and will have success in the pros. Once again. Just keep hatin. Did Ted Ginn kill your whole family or something, because that's how you make it sound. He was a great player in college and will be the same in the NFL. Believe it

Oh and here's some proof for you.....

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Old 04-04-2007, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I said he beat Ross as well, he beat him for the TD before the half, but he wasn't on him all game. He had 2 catches on Hall, one was the PA TD when it was the safety and Hall tried to make a play, and the other was a skinny post where he beat Hall with speed. Other than that he beat up on Trent. I forgot about Brown being hurt, but I know he wasn't on Ross all game (I don't like Ross anyway). Ginn is successful in college because of his speed. He burns people. That will not work in the NFL. He is too small to not run good routes or have good hands.
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Old 04-04-2007, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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I said he beat Ross as well, he beat him for the TD before the half, but he wasn't on him all game. He had 2 catches on Hall, one was the PA TD when it was the safety and Hall tried to make a play, and the other was a skinny post where he beat Hall with speed. Other than that he beat up on Trent. I forgot about Brown being hurt, but I know he wasn't on Ross all game (I don't like Ross anyway). Ginn is successful in college because of his speed. He burns people. That will not work in the NFL. He is too small to not run good routes or have good hands.
Why do I always have to repeat myself. 4.2 is 4.2, college or pros. That will be hard to keep up with for any type of players. That's the speed he possesses and he has beaten NFL-calibre defenses in the Big Ten, with the likes of Michigan being one of them. What makes you believe with that being said that he can't run by Asante Samuel or David Barrett or Terrence McGee or Andre Dyson. The Corners of the AFC east won't touch Ginn. That's how it will work in the NFL.
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Old 04-04-2007, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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How many times do I have to repeat myself, you can't run by everyone in the NFL like you can in college.
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Old 04-04-2007, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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ok how about Ted Ginn as a defensive back discussion?

any info how good he is as a cornerback?
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Old 04-04-2007, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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If Ted Ginn played CB in college you have no idea how bad I would want him. He was amazing in high school. Literally shut down half the field. Damn you OSU.
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Old 04-04-2007, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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Bottom line is that Ginn is not worth the number 9 overall pick. He is not nearly the complete WR that most of the othe propsects in this draft are. It usually takes about 2 or 3 years for a WR to make an impact in the NFL and the fact that Ginn is raw in alot of areas will make him even less likely to hlep right now. You don't take a guy in the top 10 for his kick return ability.
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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As a WR Ginn has to many holes to be worthy of the 9th overall pick. If hands are coachable tell that to Troy Williamson. Route running is coachable to an extent but the problem with Ginn is he is a strider and not quick so him running crisp routes is going to be very hard. For Ginn being such a big time playmaker and a guy that can take it to the end zone all the time his ypc isn't very high. He averages 13 ypc, Meachem averages 18. Meachem can burn people just like Ginn, but he can also do other things, Ginn can't. Ginn doesn't juke people, he isn't that good on screens unless he can just run. You can't just run by people in the NFL.
Ginn isn't quick? Where are you getting that? He has remarkable acceleration and loses almost no speed when cutting...
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Old 04-04-2007, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Ginn isn't quick? Where are you getting that? He has remarkable acceleration and loses almost no speed when cutting...
Ginn has an average agility compare to reggie bush ..

he just simply outruns everybody
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Old 04-04-2007, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Ginn isn't quick? Where are you getting that? He has remarkable acceleration and loses almost no speed when cutting...
You're absolutely right.
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Old 04-04-2007, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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Ginn has an average agility compare to reggie bush ..

he just simply outruns everybody
Why did you even bother posting this?

You obviously have never watched him play. While I agree his agility isn't as good as Reggie, I don't think anyone's is. But he is still VERY agile and makes crisps cuts while losing absolutely no speed. (Like stated above)
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Old 04-04-2007, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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If Ted Ginn played CB in college you have no idea how bad I would want him. He was amazing in high school. Literally shut down half the field. Damn you OSU.
Good point. And hey, if we drafted him... who is to say we don't test that. Since everyone is so down on his ability to be a good reciever at the next level. Let's let him be a returner and test his cover abilities in practice. That guy from the bears Rashied Davis used to be a corner... now he's a solid slot reciever for them..... we could do the opposite with Ginn. It's possible. He could be *gasp* Primetime-like.
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