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Old 11-19-2013, 09:41 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Griffin is black Ben Roethlisberger.

Except he's a lot smaller and more injury prone so he can't take hits like that.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:43 AM    (permalink
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Wait let me correct that, he's a mix btw Vick and Ben.

I think he can get better though.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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I don't like the Ben comparison at all. Why? Because of the one read stuff as young players? Ben was way more accurate as a young QB. And he hung in the pocket longer.

Last edited by Jughead10 : 11-19-2013 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
There is a huge difference between being a one read passer and someone who over relies on one specifc target. Some guys force the ball to a certain guy while others are put in a scheme where it is dictated they go to a certain option.

The criticism over Griffin is that the passing game is simplified to where he has obvious reads and if not he tucks and runs. It is still a part of his game this year where he will look at the first option in the pattern and if he is not available he will start running around. This results in a lot of broken plays but is not an example of a QB going through his progressions. Both Cutler and Stafford have shown consistently they can get to their 3 or 4 route in the pattern. RG3 hasn't.

It is a criticism of RG3 but one which was masked significantly last year with his ability to extend plays. However, in my opinion that is not a successful, long term way to be a great QB
Precisely. Didn't want this page trapped.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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I don't like the Ben comparison at all. Why? Because of the one read stuff as young players? Ben was way more accurate as a young QB.
Pretty much. I think RG3 will develop his progression reading in a similar manner as Ben.

That's why I changed it to a combo of Ben and Vick. He has a lot of Vick in him and I expect him to progress in his development like Ben.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Griffin is black Ben Roethlisberger.

Except he's a lot smaller and more injury prone so he can't take hits like that.
Cam is the young Roethlisburger. He's actually a rich man's Roethlisburger.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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Cam is the young Roethlisburger. He's actually a rich man's Roethlisburger.
This is true. If I could build a qb from scratch, he'd physically look exactly like Cam Newton.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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This is true. If I could build a qb from scratch, he'd physically look exactly like Cam Newton.
I think I would tie a counterweight to his throwing arm to prevent him from missing high so much.

But yes I agree with you. Physically, Newton is the prototype.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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I don't like the Ben comparison at all. Why? Because of the one read stuff as young players? Ben was way more accurate as a young QB. And he hung in the pocket longer.
Agree. Ben sees the field a lot better than Griffin and is much stronger in the pocket. If we need a Ben Roethlisberger comparison it's Jameis Winston.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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Agree. Ben sees the field a lot better than Griffin and is much stronger in the pocket. If we need a Ben Roethlisberger comparison it's Jameis Winston.
I would go maybe even EJ Manuel. Who I can't wait to add to this list next year. I'm a big fan of EJ.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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I would go maybe even EJ Manuel. Who I can't wait to add to this list next year. I'm a big fan of EJ.
I like EJ to, but he's gunna need to show a lot more attacking down the field before he gets himself amongst luck, cam, Russell and Tanny.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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One read passer?? You mean like Cutler targeting Brandon Marshall 200 times last season?? Or do you mean a one read passer like Matt Stafford to Megatron??

Ranking a guy riding the bench(!!) over RG3 is nutty.
When you have absolutely nothing else, it is kind of hard to target one guy. Cutler had no tight end, a receiver in Hester who couldn't run a route without falling on his ass, and Alshon who just wasn't ready. That is way different than making one read and then running.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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If you think RG3 is ONLY making one read then scrambling, you just aren't familiar with the Skins offense or what RG3's problems are this season.

On my home board the rabid masses have resorted to posting cutups from many of RG3's bad plays and what becomes obvious is that RG3 is going through multiple reads, not trusting what he sees, hesitating, holding the ball too long and making a desperation throw.

Not taking any significant reps this past offseason and not one single snap in any preseason game has really stunted Griffin's development.

To accuse RG3 of being a limited one-read QB who can't see the field is basically an uninformed argument.

The guy really shouldn't have been playing the first game of the season, this year is about getting healthy and trying to get better as a QB game to game and finish the year injury free.
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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There is a huge difference between being a one read passer and someone who over relies on one specifc target. Some guys force the ball to a certain guy while others are put in a scheme where it is dictated they go to a certain option.

The criticism over Griffin is that the passing game is simplified to where he has obvious reads and if not he tucks and runs. It is still a part of his game this year where he will look at the first option in the pattern and if he is not available he will start running around. This results in a lot of broken plays but is not an example of a QB going through his progressions. Both Cutler and Stafford have shown consistently they can get to their 3 or 4 route in the pattern. RG3 hasn't.

It is a criticism of RG3 but one which was masked significantly last year with his ability to extend plays. However, in my opinion that is not a successful, long term way to be a great QB
When Cutler and Stafford, most QBs for that matter, go three wide, they rarely if ever go to their 3rd option. The 4th option for most QBs is the RB, (except sometimes a player like Forte is the primary read based on the play.)

Cutler has not shown he can consistently find his 3rd/4th option on a given pass play, neither has Stafford. Both are very reluctant to come off their first read, for obvious reasons.
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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Cam is the young Roethlisburger. He's actually a rich man's Roethlisburger.
Win a playoff game before your name is put in a class with Big Ben.
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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I like the EJ Manuel love that's going on in this thread.
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Win a playoff game before your name is put in a class with Big Ben.
That's not fair. You need to reach the playoffs in order to win a playoff game.
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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I like the EJ Manuel love that's going on in this thread.
Rarely are the QBs I love loved as much across the board, Eli, cutler, Tannehill, Bradford, cam, EJ, etc.
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Old 11-19-2013, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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1 Luck
2 Wilson
3 Newton
4 Kaepernick
5 RG3
6 Foles
7 Dalton
8 Tannehill
9 Manuel
10 Locker
11 Glennon
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Old 11-19-2013, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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I like the EJ Manuel love that's going on in this thread.
I think he has all the tools to succeed. Can't wait to see what he does next season.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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TOP TIER
1. Andrew Luck
2. Russell Wilson
3. Cam Newton

HIGH TIER
4. Robert Griffin III
5. Colin Kaepernick

MID TIER
6. Andy Dalton
7. Nick Foles
8. Ryan Tannehill

CAN'T STAY HEALTHY TIER
9. Sam Bradford
10. Jake Locker

LOW TIER
11. EJ Manuel
12. Geno Smith
13. Mike Glennon

WE DON'T KNOW TIER
14. Ryan Mallet
15. Brock Osweiler

CAREER BACKUP TIER
16. Christian Ponder
17. Colt McCoy

INTO THE TRASH IT GOES TIER
18. Brandon Weeden
19. Jimmy Clausen
20. Tim Tebow

GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY TO SET FOOTBALL BACK TO THE 1920s TIER
9001. Blaine Gabbert
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:49 PM    (permalink
ShyneQuasiOG22
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This is the order I see these quarterbacks being rated throughout their careers.

Tier I
1. Andrew Luck
2. Russell Wilson
3. Cam Newton

Tier II
4. Nick Foles
5. RG III
6. Andy Dalton
7. Colin Kaepernick
8. Ryan Mallet

Tier III
9. Sam Bradford
10. Ryan Tannehill
11. Jake Locker

Tier IV
12. Christian Ponder
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:00 PM    (permalink
Babylon
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The Nick Foles love is almost getting comical. I like him and hope he does well but his last three games, where's he's sort of made his mark, have been against the Raiders, Packers and Skins. Not a defense in the bunch.
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
niel89
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
The Nick Foles love is almost getting comical. I like him and hope he does well but his last three games, where's he's sort of made his mark, have been against the Raiders, Packers and Skins. Not a defense in the bunch.
The guy is killing it currently but I agree. He just doesn't have enough games under his belt for me to rank him. Those 7 tds on Oakland really skew things, but you do have to count them.
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Old 11-20-2013, 03:31 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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The Nick Foles love is almost getting comical. I like him and hope he does well but his last three games, where's he's sort of made his mark, have been against the Raiders, Packers and Skins. Not a defense in the bunch.
They may be among the worst in the NFL, but they are still NFL defenses. It's pretty hard to think of anyone else who's rattled off a month of games the way he has. He's obviously the smallest sample size in this conversation and there's less to go on. It's easier to rank Luck and Newton and Wilson, etc., because they've been established as starters longer. If Foles can keep this up indefinitely, he'll be in the conversation for number one. I don't expect him to keep it up indefinitely, but he's been on about as prolific a stretch as anyone in the league has had this year - Peyton, Brees and the rest included - and he had his moments last year, so I think it's more than fair to throw him in the middle of the pack right now and let his play through the remainder of the season determine whether he rises or falls from there.
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