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View Poll Results: Where will Alex Smith be next season
Buffalo 5 4.63%
Cleveland 10 9.26%
Kansas City 47 43.52%
Jacksonville 6 5.56%
Arizona 25 23.15%
NY Jets 10 9.26%
Other: Who 5 4.63%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-27-2013, 03:06 PM    (permalink
PoopSandwich
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Aaah, the talent excuse. Works like a charm every time. Every terribad qb has the same exact excuses:

-It's his OC's fault
-He has no OL
-He lacks playmakers around him

I never met a terrible qb who didn't have these excuses made for why he wasn't any good.
Put Tom Brady under the string of ****** coaches Smith had and a ton of ****** players on offense and while he wouldn't have been as bad as Smith was they would have still not won many games.

It's also hilarious that you use the excuse of Alex Smith being complete **** and that resulting in others being fired and say that I cannot use the exact same excuse for the other things.

You're literally doing the exact same thing which is why I am pointing out the irony of your stupid argument.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:06 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular View Post
I think you use "succeed" a little bit loosely here. I think it just comes down to media coverage. The media waxed on Cassel a couple years ago. The media is still pimping Smith pretty hard.
I'm just pointing out an obvious flaw to their logic on this stance. If you want to pimp Smith that's fine, as long as you also believe Cassel can also succeed there.

But if you don't, you're being extremely hypocritical with little evidence to support your claim. Bc any evidence you use to support Smith can also be used to support Cassel.

So they either both suck or they both can succeed with Reid. And I'm waiting for someone to tell me otherwise and offer a legitimate reason why they feel that way.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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The worst part is, most of the people arguing here arent even saying Smith is this god awful QB who can't play. Hes mediocre. And thats the problem, you don't trade essentially a 1st round pick, and a conditional second the following year for mediocre. They literally JUST did that with Cassel, idk why people are trying to say Smith is underrated, or people are unfairly hating on him. No they are ******* not. They're just able to understand that in football you don't trade a second round pick for another Matt Cassel.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Hey guys, did you ever think that maaaaaaybe if Alex Smith didn't suck under those coaches they wouldn't keep replacing them and giving him a brand new excuse every year?

Ever think about that?
Well seeing as Mike Nolan and Mike Singletary haven't gotten a head coaching job after their failures in San Francisco, no, not really. And you take a look at those rosters for the 49ers from 2005 to around 2008 or 2009 for the offense. It's pretty bad. Not saying if they were a lot better like they are now that Alex would have thrived in San Francisco, but he would have played better than what we saw. And in the first couple of seasons his first two coordinators got head coaching jobs. His other coordinators, Jeff Hostler, Mike Johnson, Mike Martz, and Jimmy Raye haven't done anything notable since.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Well seeing as Mike Nolan and Mike Singletary haven't gotten a head coaching job after their failures in San Francisco, no, not really. And you take a look at those rosters for the 49ers from 2005 to around 2008 or 2009 for the offense. It's pretty bad. Not saying if they were a lot better like they are now that Alex would have thrived in San Francisco, but he would have played better than what we saw. And in the first couple of seasons his first two coordinators got head coaching jobs. His other coordinators, Jeff Hostler, Mike Johnson, Mike Martz, and Jimmy Raye haven't done anything notable since.
Dismiss all those statements though its detrimental to his argument.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
Put Tom Brady under the string of ****** coaches Smith had and a ton of ****** players on offense and while he wouldn't have been as bad as Smith was they would have still not won many games.

It's also hilarious that you use the excuse of Alex Smith being complete **** and that resulting in others being fired and say that I cannot use the exact same excuse for the other things.

You're literally doing the exact same thing which is why I am pointing out the irony of your stupid argument.
Put Tom Brady under Smith or Singletary and both are still head coaches in this league.

Put Brady under all those "incompetent" OCs and they still have a job. Bc Brady is good.

And Alex Smith is not.

Your argument is flawed bc I have 6 different guys who failed with Smith. When you bang your head against a table once and it hurts it's an accident. When you bang your head against a table 6 times and it hurts every time and can't figure out why then I don't know what to tell you.

Good players will succeed under difficult circumstances to a certain degree. They don't suck as hard as Smith did.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Soooooooooo awesome.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Aaah, the talent excuse. Works like a charm every time. Every terribad qb has the same exact excuses:

-It's his OC's fault
-He has no OL
-He lacks playmakers around him

I never met a terrible qb who didn't have these excuses made for why he wasn't any good.
This was the situation with Steve Young in Tampa. He looked terrible in his two years there and was deemed expendable. In reality he had nothing to work with. When he came to San Francisco he received the proper coaching and had players around him to work with and the next thing you know he's in the Hall of Fame. Obviously this doesn't work for everyone, but it does go to show that coaching and talent has an effect on the success of your quarterback. Can't do it alone.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
I like how everyone forgets this. Yea, because playing with the best defense in the NFL, the best offensive line in the NFL, the best running game, managing the game as an average QB is so hard right? Now I'll wait for a Niners fan to come in with stats and prove how their blocking was only 3rd best in the league and defense was ranked 4th in some stats so that's all wrongzorzz.
Are you really trying to say Smith was only average before he got hurt in 2012? Because that is ridiculous. In 2011 when the 49ers offensive line was not that good, the running game was more about quantity than quality and the receivers were subpar, Smith was still pretty good.

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Point is, he has sucked nearly his entire time in SF. He has all those situations go in his favor, on top of a great QB guru and magically he looks better. Last year the guy hit UFA and nobody wanted him, half a season later he's SO good and worth two 2nds lol. Anyone defending this trade, have fun getting ridiculed throughout the 2013 season when the old Alex comes back.
Brody is right on point with what he is saying, Smith did not suck most of his time in SF. He sucked his rookie year and that is seemingly all anyone remembers. In 2009-2010 he was mediocre/average and was arguably about the same in 2006.

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Plus, can we stop with the "well he almost made the SB and who knows he could have beat Brady!11!!!". Really? So because he "almost" made a SB, now he's a good QB? That's good to know that only elite or really good QB's are the only guys who "almost" make SB's, and by saying that he "almost" made it, automatically means he's a good QB so I'll just use that as my argument over and over.
No one is using that as an argument. The post was made in response to someone who said you can't win the Super Bowl with Alex Smith. Recent evidence shows that there is definitely at least a possibility to do so.

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2005- He was miserable. But it was his rookie year, so we can excuse that.
2006- He was slightly below average. I guess that doesn't count as sucking.
2007- He was awful. He started seven games. He had 2 TDs, a sub 50% completion percentage, and average 130 yards per game.
2008- He was hurt all season. But in the preseason, he got beat out by JT O'Sullivan. If you get beat out by JT O'Sullivan, you suck.
2009- He got beat out by top-20 QB Shaun Hill. He later got the job back. He was average.
2010- He was average. 49er fans actually called for David Carr. Troy Smith was actually chosen to start at one point over Smith.
You are right on for 2005, 2006, 2009, and 2010 but you are wrong on 2007 and 2008. In 2007 he only played three games before separating his shoulder. He got injured on the second or third play of his 4th start and left the game. Then Mike Nolan tried to throw him under the bus and question his toughness, forcing him to play three more games with a separated throwing shoulder. Obviously he was awful in those three games.

In 2008 there was never any competition, even if Smith had been healthy. O'Sullivan was Martz's guy and nothing was going to change that in practice. JTO was awful for like half a season before he finally got benched.

To wrap-up,

- Awful in 2005, but he started less than half a season and was a rookie
- Massive improvement from year one in 2006 and looked like a franchise QB at times
- 49ers start 2-1, Smith injures his shoulder in 2007
- Smith is injured all season in 2008
- Smith plays decent in 2009-2010, even though he did lose his job to less capable QBs because awful coaches were trying to save their jobs

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Alex isn't nearly as bad as some people suggest he is but when people like Abaddon overrate him it causes people to go the other way so i guess i understand where some of the hate is coming from.

I would say he's near the average in terms of NFL starting QB's, around that 16 range. You could quibble on a few QB's here and there and say he's slightly below or above average but that range is a pretty solid guess.
That is exactly where I rate him, though.

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It was above average then too. It's a top 2 OL in the league.
It really wasn't. Staley was good in 2011 but the rest of the line was average or worse. The whole right side was terrible.

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Ok let me ask all the Alex Smith supporters this question:

If Andy Reid is a qb guru who can turn around talent, why not stick with Cassell?

Cassell had 2 good seasons. Smith had 2 good seasons. Cassel actually had a better season than Smith ever did.

Plus you can't use the talent excuse bc both succeeded when they had good talent around them.

So what the hell is the difference btw the 2? Why not just keep Cassel?

Even physically they're equal. Both are somewhat mobile. Both lack arm strength. They're basically the same exact player.

So what I don't understand is, how can you make the argument for Smith then turn around and not think that Reid can do the same thing with Cassel?
Cassel's best season was not better than Smith before he got hurt this year. Cassel's 2010 season was about as good as Smith's 2011. Cassel subsequently had the chance to prove it wasn't a fluke and failed miserably. Cassel is also not a QB who anyone thought ever had talent. Smith, whether you think he was picked too high or not, was the #1 overall pick and had only started 50 games and shown improvement during that span before Harbaugh got there. The comparison is awful.

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Hey guys, did you ever think that maaaaaaybe if Alex Smith didn't suck under those coaches they wouldn't keep replacing them and giving him a brand new excuse every year?

Ever think about that?
Maybe if Mike Nolan, Jimmy Raye, Jim Hostler, Mike Johnson, and Mike Singletary had a single brain combined they wouldn't keep on replacing him? The only one of those who seemed competent was Johnson and he was basically Singletary's puppet.

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Aaah, the talent excuse. Works like a charm every time. Every terribad qb has the same exact excuses:

-It's his OC's fault
-He has no OL
-He lacks playmakers around him

I never met a terrible qb who didn't have these excuses made for why he wasn't any good.
Two problems. The first is that Smith isn't and hasn't been terrible, outside of his rookie year. The second is that Smith has proven that he can be good with help around him.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Put Tom Brady under Smith or Singletary and both are still head coaches in this league.

Put Brady under all those "incompetent" OCs and they still have a job. Bc Brady is good.

And Alex Smith is not.

Your argument is flawed bc I have 6 different guys who failed with Smith. When you bang your head against a table once and it hurts it's an accident. When you bang your head against a table 6 times and it hurts every time and can't figure out why then I don't know what to tell you.

Good players will succeed under difficult circumstances to a certain degree. They don't suck as hard as Smith did.
You are probably right. Nolan and Singletary were competent head coaches and Jim Hostler, Jimmy Raye, and Mike Johnson were good offensive coordinators.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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So not only did the Chiefs get a mediocre QB for two premium picks, but apparently an injury prone one to boot.

Holy ****, awesome.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Put Tom Brady under Smith or Singletary and both are still head coaches in this league.

Put Brady under all those "incompetent" OCs and they still have a job. Bc Brady is good.
Based on what, your opinion? I don't know if I have ever seen someone spew so much ******** like it's fact in my entire life. You do realize what the word OPINION is. You do not have prophetic powers, if you were so ******* smart and knew everything like you seem to act like you do, you would have a front office job oh wise one.

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Your argument is flawed bc I have 6 different guys who failed with Smith. When you bang your head against a table once and it hurts it's an accident. When you bang your head against a table 6 times and it hurts every time and can't figure out why then I don't know what to tell you.

Good players will succeed under difficult circumstances to a certain degree. They don't suck as hard as Smith did.
Look at all those killer coaches that are still in the league doing great work. They actually are all so amazing that they are playing each other in the playoffs on a regular basis, the Mike Nolan Mike Singletary Super Bowl this past year was ******* awesome. The biggest disappoint was that only one of those incredible coaches could win.

Let's completely ignore #1 pick coming into worst situation in the league with ****** coaches and injuries and just expect every rookie to come into the league with no talent and be amazing the second they start playing.

****** up shoulders terrible coaches and an awful overall offensive cast around him didn't have anything to do with it, Alex Smith just sucks.

The best thing is I really don't care either way whether or not he does well and I don't have a genuine opinion on whether or not he can do well. I just think you're completely ignorant to disregard him and anyone else opinions on the matter because you honest to god have no clue how to accept that other people have opinions.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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Soooooooooo awesome.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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So not only did the Chiefs get a mediocre QB for two premium picks, but apparently an injury prone one to boot.

Holy ****, awesome.
Stop being a hater and realize that trading a 1st and 2nd round pick for a Qb who had one good year his entire career is well worth the investment.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
So not only did the Chiefs get a mediocre QB for two premium picks, but apparently an injury prone one to boot.

Holy ****, awesome.
One could definitely argue that Smith is injury prone. He missed a few games in his rookie season with injuries and missed most of 2007 and all of 2008 with an injury. He also got injured in 2010 and 2012. The only years that he didn't miss games because of injuries were 2006, 2009, and 2011.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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I can't wait to see what kinda of long term deal they give him.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:16 PM    (permalink
vidae
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Stop being a hater and realize that trading a 1st and 2nd round pick for a Qb who had one good year his entire career is well worth the investment.
Oh sorry, I forgot.. bad coaches, bad talent.. none of it was Smith at all!

Wow, the Chiefs got a STEAL!

If 49er fans really believed he was this good, they'd be pissed that they traded him.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Oh sorry, I forgot.. bad coaches, bad talent.. none of it was Smith at all!

Wow, the Chiefs got a STEAL!

If 49er fans really believed he was this good, they'd be pissed that they traded him.
Not being ready to come into the NFL on top of having a completely awful roster and terrible head coaches compounds that problem.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Oh sorry, I forgot.. bad coaches, bad talent.. none of it was Smith at all!

Wow, the Chiefs got a STEAL!

If 49er fans really believed he was this good, they'd be pissed that they traded him.
I am a little upset. I know Smith is at least an average QB that the 49ers can be perennial contenders with. Kaepernick at times looks like an elite QB but after less than a dozen games he is still a relative unknown. I would have rather kept Smith as a backup in case Kaepernick did crash and burn.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Ok there's too much to quote so I'll keep this simple.

-Don't compare Smith to Young. Young is a HOFer. Smith will never be one. In fact please stop using examples of HOF players as reasons why this can work. SMITH IS NOT A HOF PLAYER. For ***** sake, this is getting ridiculous.

-You can't compare Cassel's full season to Smith's half season. That's ridiculously stupid for many reasons. So yes, Smith never had a better season than Cassel's best season.

-How do I know? BC HE'S ******* TOM BRADY. Do I really need to elaborate more than that?

And why the **** would a Browns fan want Alex Smith? Have you not seen enough ****** football? What makes you think getting another ****** player is somehow gonna be the solution to your problems?
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Not being ready to come into the NFL on top of having a completely awful roster and terrible head coaches compounds that problem.
And that totally explains why he was just benched for a 2nd year player running a college offense and managed to get them to the SB, then subsequently traded away. Hes totally so much improved these past few years!
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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Slow the **** down. I have a ton of **** to do at work and I can't keep up with the awesomeness being thrown about in here.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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And I'm still waiting to hear why Smith is any different from Cassel. Come on fellas, let's hear it. Enlighten me.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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-How do I know? BC HE'S ******* TOM BRADY. Do I really need to elaborate more than that?

And why the **** would a Browns fan want Alex Smith? Have you not seen enough ****** football? What makes you think getting another ****** player is somehow gonna be the solution to your problems?
GOOD RESPONSE! JUST WHAT I EXPECTED!

You automatically know that Tom Brady would have been a godsend on the horrible 49'ers roster because he's ******* Tom Brady!

What an excellent argument! Let's take rookie Tom Brady without the coaching and supporting cast of Bill Bellicheck and the Patriots and see how well he would have done.

Probably amazing, BECAUSE HES ******* TOM BRADY!

I wouldn't have minded Alex Smith because we have Weeden but whatever. Smith would have probably been an upgrade but I will never know and cannot comment on that because I actually do not get to see what would have happened.

I don't know if getting a 70% passer on a team with a good o-line developing receivers a running back who has a ton of promise moving forward and a **** load of cap space would have been that bad of a thing for us.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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I think Smith will do well in KC, but they gave up a ridiculous amount for him and he's probably not an upgrade over keeping Cassel on paper and he can't stay healthy. Could he be the next Drew Brees? Yeah. He's got the skill set for it. But I think fans here were really ready to see the Chiefs draft a QB whether it worked out or not.

Dorsey wasn't going to get fired over a failed #1 Overall QB, but he could get fired over this trade if Alex doesn't turn into Drew Brees 2.0 and Geno turns out to be very good.
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