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View Poll Results: Where will Alex Smith be next season
Buffalo 5 4.63%
Cleveland 10 9.26%
Kansas City 47 43.52%
Jacksonville 6 5.56%
Arizona 25 23.15%
NY Jets 10 9.26%
Other: Who 5 4.63%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-27-2013, 03:24 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Ok there's too much to quote so I'll keep this simple.

-Don't compare Smith to Young. Young is a HOFer. Smith will never be one. In fact please stop using examples of HOF players as reasons why this can work. SMITH IS NOT A HOF PLAYER. For ***** sake, this is getting ridiculous.
But does he become a Hall of Fame quarterback if he stays with the Buccaneers? That was the entire point. Look, it isn't a fact that with better coaching and a better cast a quarterback that looked bad elsewhere will turn their career around, but let's not act like having talent as a quarterback will circumvent any circumstance what-so-ever. Because it won't. Football is a team sport for a reason. Earlier you touted reasons for quarterbacks failing were simply a myriad of excuses regardless of the situation (at least that is how I took it), but at the same time you have to keep in mind that those "excuses" for players in certain situations are also facts. If the Buccaneers knew what they had they wouldn't have gotten rid of him even for a 2nd and 4th round pick. Probably the same with the Chiefs regarding Gannon. Or Atlanta with Favre. I mean was Archie Manning supposed to turn around that entire Saints franchise will little talent?
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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And I'm still waiting to hear why Smith is any different from Cassel. Come on fellas, let's hear it. Enlighten me.
Cassel's best season was not better than Smith before he got hurt this year. Cassel's 2010 season was about as good as Smith's 2011. Cassel subsequently had the chance to prove it wasn't a fluke and failed miserably. Cassel is also not a QB who anyone thought ever had talent. Smith, whether you think he was picked too high or not, was the #1 overall pick and had only started 50 games and shown improvement during that span before Harbaugh got there. The comparison is awful.

Cassel had a great TD/INT ratio in 2010 but he completed under 60% of his passes with a <7 YPA. More than a third of his completions went to running backs and another third went to a receiver who would often come down will balls thrown into triple coverage that year. Hate Smith as much as you want but he doesn't check down nearly as much. Only 16% of his completions went to running backs in 2011, and it was on pace to be even lower this year. Don't let things like facts get in your way, though.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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GOOD RESPONSE! JUST WHAT I EXPECTED!

You automatically know that Tom Brady would have been a godsend on the horrible 49'ers roster because he's ******* Tom Brady!

What an excellent argument! Let's take rookie Tom Brady without the coaching and supporting cast of Bill Bellicheck and the Patriots and see how well he would have done.

Probably amazing, BECAUSE HES ******* TOM BRADY!

I wouldn't have minded Alex Smith because we have Weeden but whatever. Smith would have probably been an upgrade but I will never know and cannot comment on that because I actually do not get to see what would have happened.

I don't know if getting a 70% passer on a team with a good o-line developing receivers a running back who has a ton of promise moving forward and a **** load of cap space would have been that bad of a thing for us.
Yeah pretty much. It's not complicated. Tom Brady is a top 5 qb of all time, could wind up being the GOAT when his career is over. So he can make me look like a good OC.

You do know Bellichick was on the hot seat to get fired until Tom Brady became his QB right?

And that Bellichick was considered a bad HC until Brady became his qb right?

And that Josh McDaniels actually looked competent when Brady was his qb right?

Should I keep going? Maybe I should just cap lock Tom Brady again bc it's seriously the only argument I need.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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You know what the funniest thing about this is?

I think Smith can win 10 games and ride the bus for KC into the playoffs. But what gets me is the fact that doing so is somehow considered good enough.

Isn't the point of this game to win the championship? Smith isn't winning a SB. And that's why I think this is a bad move. Especially considering how much they gave up.

Bc they gave up the chance of getting someone who can potentially get them a SB for a guy who will never get them one.

And before I hear the Dilferzzzz ********, let me remind you that the Chiefs don't have a top 3 defense of all time, and play in a passing era that's heavily dictated by qb play.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Yeah pretty much. It's not complicated. Tom Brady is a top 5 qb of all time, could wind up being the GOAT when his career is over. So he can make me look like a good OC.

You do know Bellichick was on the hot seat to get fired until Tom Brady became his QB right?

And that Bellichick was considered a bad HC until Brady became his qb right?

And that Josh McDaniels actually looked competent when Brady was his qb right?

Should I keep going? Maybe I should just cap lock Tom Brady again bc it's seriously the only argument I need.
The two situations are completely ******* different.

Tom Brady came into a team with one of the best defenses in the league and a competent supporting cast, and a team that was making the playoffs.

Alex Smith came into a ******* horrible situation with one of the worst rosters and some of the worst coaching staffs in recent memory.

Put rookie Tom Brady on the 49ers in the same situation and I doubt you have the same Tom Brady that you have today.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Bellichick was fired by the Browns without Tom Brady.

Tom Brady was always pretty good. He was overlooked in college because he shared time with the son of a legend and the hottest recruit that ever came out of the state of Michigan. Usually, he'd play the first quarter, Henson would go in for the second quarter and blow a lead, then Brady would go back in and save the day.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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No. I'm pretty sure a top 5 qb of all time would find a way to be very successful regardless of what circumstance he was put in.

That's why he's Tom Brady and not David Carr. He was a 5th round draft pick. He came into the league with no chance of succeeding and he did.

I'm pretty sure he'd succeed regardless of his circumstances.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Lol ok, since when was our defense in 2001 regarded as one of the best in the league? It certainly got that way from there, but no, when he stepped in it was not the best in the league. Also when did he have this awesome supporting cast around him when he stepped in? Good lord, were having Alex Smith Tom Brady debates. I think... I think I need to leave this place for awhile
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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You know what the funniest thing about this is?

I think Smith can win 10 games and ride the bus for KC into the playoffs. But what gets me is the fact that doing so is somehow considered good enough.

Isn't the point of this game to win the championship? Smith isn't winning a SB. And that's why I think this is a bad move. Especially considering how much they gave up.

Bc they gave up the chance of getting someone who can potentially get them a SB for a guy who will never get them one.

And before I hear the Dilferzzzz ********, let me remind you that the Chiefs don't have a top 3 defense of all time, and play in a passing era that's heavily dictated by qb play.
I still think you need a good overall team to win the big dance anyways. If the Chiefs get decent quarterback play out of Alex Smith like what we got from him the last season and a half, then they'll be okay at that position. The catch is that they'd have to have a competitive all around team. I think that's better anyways. Rivers seems to have carried the Chargers the last few years and it just seems to have gotten worse and worse. I can't remember the last quarterback that just WAS the team and won the Super Bowl.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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You know what the funniest thing about this is?

I think Smith can win 10 games and ride the bus for KC into the playoffs. But what gets me is the fact that doing so is somehow considered good enough.

Isn't the point of this game to win the championship? Smith isn't winning a SB. And that's why I think this is a bad move. Especially considering how much they gave up.

Bc they gave up the chance of getting someone who can potentially get them a SB for a guy who will never get them one.

And before I hear the Dilferzzzz ********, let me remind you that the Chiefs don't have a top 3 defense of all time, and play in a passing era that's heavily dictated by qb play.
Can you tell me how many 2nd round picks in the last five years are currently starting? I imagine the number can't be very high. I agree that the price is a bit excessive but Smith can vastly improve the Chiefs. He may not be able to win a Super Bowl with the current roster but after a couple more years of adding talent it is entirely possible. Smith gives them those couple of years. The Chiefs should be competing for a playoff spot and, after this season, the fans and front office are going to be willing to give them more time if that is the case.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Bellichick was fired by the Browns without Tom Brady.

Tom Brady was always great. was overlooked in college because he shared time with the son of a legend and the hottest recruit that ever came out of Michigan.
So when the QB ends up panning out its because the coach is good if it supports your argument but if the coach ends up being regarded as one of the best coaches of all time its the QB that is the reason because it also fits your argument.

Love this.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Lol ok, since when was our defense in 2001 regarded as one of the best in the league? It certainly got that way from there, but no, when he stepped in it was not the best in the league. Also when did he have this awesome supporting cast around him when he stepped in? Good lord, were having Alex Smith Tom Brady debates. I think... I think I need to leave this place for awhile
Not debating Alex Smith and Tom Brady but the Patriots had the #6 defense in 2001 and held the Rams to 14 points less than their season average. The Patriots definitely had one of the best defenses in the league.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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I still think you need a good overall team to win the big dance anyways. If the Chiefs get decent quarterback play out of Alex Smith like what we got from him the last season and a half, then they'll be okay at that position. The catch is that they'd have to have a competitive all around team. I think that's better anyways. Rivers seems to have carried the Chargers the last few years and it just seems to have gotten worse and worse. I can't remember the last quarterback that just WAS the team and won the Super Bowl.
This is true, but what's difficult is maintaining such an elite team around Smith to give him enough chances to realistically compete for that SB. We're in the FA era, teams change a lot year to year. To keep a top flight team intact is very very difficult and takes a lot of luck as well.

The teams with great qbs can manage around this bc whatever they lose in FA, their qb can pick up the slack and maintain similar production through the bumps along the road.

Smith is not that kind of qb. He won't make anyone around him better. And bc of that, you basically would have a 2 year window under the most perfect of circumstances to make a title run with this guy as your qb. And that would require the perfect storm to happen.

So why would you build your team under this model? It's just a bad model to build a team around.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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So when the QB ends up panning out its because the coach is good if it supports your argument but if the coach ends up being regarded as one of the best coaches of all time its the QB that is the reason because it also fits your argument.

Love this.
No, I've always felt this way. The NFL is more like the NBA than we typically like to admit. Find a guy who can take over games for you: look like a genius.

"My argument" is irrelevant.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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I <3 you BBD, but BB was absolutely not on the hot seat after 1 season as HC in NE. Also, Tom MF'ing Terrific was a 6th round pick.


Carry on. :)
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Lol ok, since when was our defense in 2001 regarded as one of the best in the league? It certainly got that way from there, but no, when he stepped in it was not the best in the league. Also when did he have this awesome supporting cast around him when he stepped in? Good lord, were having Alex Smith Tom Brady debates. I think... I think I need to leave this place for awhile
The point being made was supposed to be that it's unfair to judge a QB based on his first year as a #1 pick with inexperienced coaches and a poor roster around him.

It was literally only supposed to be meant as I thought it would be unlikely that even someone as skilled as him could have come in and done anything realistically good with that situation. Not to mention that Smith was clearly not ready at first.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Lol ok, since when was our defense in 2001 regarded as one of the best in the league? It certainly got that way from there, but no, when he stepped in it was not the best in the league. Also when did he have this awesome supporting cast around him when he stepped in? Good lord, were having Alex Smith Tom Brady debates. I think... I think I need to leave this place for awhile
We've reached an all time low. I seriously have to explain why Tom Brady would succeed under the same circumstances that Alex Smith was under.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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Can you tell me how many 2nd round picks in the last five years are currently starting? I imagine the number can't be very high. I agree that the price is a bit excessive but Smith can vastly improve the Chiefs. He may not be able to win a Super Bowl with the current roster but after a couple more years of adding talent it is entirely possible. Smith gives them those couple of years. The Chiefs should be competing for a playoff spot and, after this season, the fans and front office are going to be willing to give them more time if that is the case.


Maybe I'm spoiled as a Patriots fan, but 2nd round picks are ******* ballers 'round these parts.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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The point being made was supposed to be that it's unfair to judge a QB based on his first year as a #1 pick with inexperienced coaches and a poor roster around him.

It was literally only supposed to be meant as I thought it would be unlikely that even someone as skilled as him could have come in and done anything realistically good with that situation. Not to mention that Smith was clearly not ready at first.
He had 6 years! 6 years!!

You don't think a good qb would find a way to succeed after having 6 years in the league? 6 years!

He sucked for 6 years. Am I missing something here? He sucked for 6 years.

6 years. It's not like he was thrown away after 3 years and never got another chance. This dude sucked for 6 years.

6 years. You're telling me if Tom Brady also had 6 years to turn it around he wouldn't?

Tom Brady?! Tom ******* Brady?!

Come on man. Stop. Just stop.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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Andrew Luck came into what appeared to be a terrible situation and a team with the #1 pick and he brought the Colts to the playoffs his first year. I'm pretty sure when you have a great QB they are a HUGE upgrade to your team. I don't think your argument is any better here.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Andrew Luck came into what appeared to be a terrible situation and a team with the #1 pick and he brought the Colts to the playoffs his first year. I'm pretty sure when you have a great QB they are a HUGE upgrade to your team. I don't think your argument is any better here.
They also went from Curtis Painter and Kerry Collins to Andrew Luck the most hyped prospect possibly of all time.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Its all Shottenheimer's fault!
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Good quarterbacks are going to find a way to succeed, even in the worst situations. They might even throw a bunch of picks some seasons, but they'll make huge plays.

Some guys come out of the gates hot, some take time to develop(Brees). Guys like Alex Smith and David Carr being coddled forever won't make them be good QBs. Starting on a team with pro bowl weapons all over the field won't make them a good QB. Early success vs. early failures won't make you a good QB, if you aren't the cause for the success (SANCHEZ).

I dunno why QB's get so many excuses lately when the team is bad. Tom Brady wouldn't have the rings he does now if he went to a crappy team from the jump, but he'd be every bit the good QB he is, and might have hit that point even earlier in his career, as putting the offense fully on his back and letting him attack downfield made him grow even more as a player.

This whole "omg, his bad team ruined him, or he would have been great!" stuff has to stop.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Maybe I'm spoiled as a Patriots fan, but 2nd round picks are ******* ballers 'round these parts.
There are definitely some good 2nd round picks but I think the vast majority end up riding the bench or being out of the league in a few years.

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He had 6 years! 6 years!!

You don't think a good qb would find a way to succeed after having 6 years in the league? 6 years!

He sucked for 6 years. Am I missing something here? He sucked for 6 years.

6 years. It's not like he was thrown away after 3 years and never got another chance. This dude sucked for 6 years.

6 years. You're telling me if Tom Brady also had 6 years to turn it around he wouldn't?

Tom Brady?! Tom ******* Brady?!

Come on man. Stop. Just stop.
He did not have six years. You people really need to stop saying that. He had three years, really. He had no chance in 2005 and he was injured in 2007-2008. He only started 50 games before Harbaugh and he didn't even suck for most of that period, he was average.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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They also went from Curtis Painter and Kerry Collins to Andrew Luck the most hyped prospect possibly of all time.
And how do this do anythign to help your argument that a good QB wouldnt have fared better than Smith had?
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