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Old 06-05-2013, 01:59 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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So now you've given up and decided just to manufacture fake quotes?

How incredibly intelligent.

Thanks for conceding the point!
I'm paraphrasing you. You made an excellent point, and I'm just sig quoting it so everyone can see it.

I appreciate the clarity.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I'm paraphrasing you. You made an excellent point, and I'm just sig quoting it so everyone can see it.

I appreciate the clarity.
But how does that jive with the thread I just made about my bold prediction for 2013?

Sure seems confusing that the big bold thread has something that goes completely against what you are quoting in your little sig...

Sure does make you look like a lying idiot when your made-up sig is completely contrary to my posts and my thread.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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But how does that jive with the thread I just made about my bold prediction for 2013?

Sure seems confusing that the big bold thread has something that goes completely against what you are quoting in your little sig...

Sure does make you look like a lying idiot when your made-up sig is completely contrary to my posts and my thread.
It's simple. You just told us. Please reread your posts. You clearly told us. Thanks for clearing it up.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
It's simple. You just told us. Please reread your posts. You clearly told us. Thanks for clearing it up.
Strange, but there is no post where I said such a thing.

And I have a big thread in the main forum where I clearly claim the opposite.

Are you sure you're not just a liar who has completely conceded the point and given up in desperation by manufacturing fake quotes?

Seems like it to me.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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I find it hilarious a guy who has 8.5 career sacks in 3 years is getting talked about this much. I mean, this is getting Tebow-esque
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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I find it hilarious a guy who has 8.5 career sacks in 3 years is getting talked about this much. I mean, this is getting Tebow-esque
He would have a lot more if he wasn't injured late in his rookie season and had to sit out all of 2011.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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You showed us the numbers. JPP has more production than Graham. And said that Watt has more production than Graham, and Watt is better than Graham even though Graham has more production per snap.

Your words.

So in conclusion, JPP is also better than Brandon Graham. You cleared it up for us. We appreciate it. I was confused before, but I get it now.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
You showed us the numbers. JPP has more production than Graham. And said that Watt has more production than Graham, and Watt is better than Graham even though Graham has more production per snap.

Your words.

So in conclusion, JPP is also better than Brandon Graham. You cleared it up for us. We appreciate it. I was confused before, but I get it now.
Except that you are clearly ignoring the post where I showed that Watt had vastly more production than both players in the same number of snaps as Pierre Paul, and that Pierre had basically similar numbers, if only slightly better, than Graham, who played literally HALF the snaps as Pierre Paul.

So all that you should conclude here is that, well, clearly you don't understand simple arithmetic like division.

So did you never take basic Math classes in school? Did you grow up on a farm and had to drop out after the 4th grade to help out on the farm? I wish you could clear that up for me.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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As a reference point:

JJ Watt: 20.5 sacks, 16 PDs, 4 FF, 69 tackles in 900+ snaps
Jason Pierre Paul: 6.5 sacks, 5 PDs, 1 FF, 43 Tackles in 900+ snaps
Brandon Graham: 5.5 sacks, 1 PD, 2 FF, 30 Tackles in 400 some snaps

Per (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts):

Jason Pierre Paul, in 2012, played 951 total snaps, of which 873 were on defense.
Brandon Graham, in 2012, played 440 total snaps, of which 421 were on defense.

Per (http://www.pro-football-reference.co...G/GrahBr99.htm) and (http://www.pro-football-reference.co...PierJa99.htm):

Jason Pierre Paul, in 2012, had 6.5 sacks, 5 PDs, 1 FF, 43 Tackles.
Brandon Graham, in 2012, had 5.5 sacks, 1 PD, 2 FF, 30 Tackles.

Does anyone here know simple math?

5.5 sacks in 421 defensive snaps vs. 6.5 sacks in 873 defensive snaps.

So using something called simple division, we get 0.0075 sacks per snap (Pierre Paul) vs. 0.0131 sacks per snap. 0.0131 > 0.0075.

And clearly, JJ Watt's 20.5 sacks far outpace what both players did, and so he was the superior player because he kept close to Graham's pace on a sack/snap basis, AND played more snaps.

Whereas Pierre Paul had far lower sacks/snap than Graham, so his only "advantage" was that he literaly played more snaps, but he was only AS productive as Graham in total, or slightly more so. So it took him twice as many snaps to achieve basically the same result.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Except that you are clearly ignoring the post where I showed that Watt had vastly more production than both players in the same number of snaps as Pierre Paul, and that Pierre had basically similar numbers, if only slightly better, than Graham, who played literally HALF the snaps as Pierre Paul.

So all that you should conclude here is that, well, clearly you don't understand simple arithmetic like division.

So did you never take basic Math classes in school? Did you grow up on a farm and had to drop out after the 4th grade to help out on the farm? I wish you could clear that up for me.
EXACTLY. Both Watt and JPP had better numbers than Graham but Graham had more production per snap.

So even though Graham had more production per snap, he wasn't better than Watt bc Watt had more total production. Same with JPP.

I got it bro. We both know how to add. 2 + 2 = 4.

6.5 sacks > 5.5 sacks.

It makes sense.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
EXACTLY. Both Watt and JPP had better numbers than Graham but Graham had more production per snap.

So even though Graham had more production per snap, he wasn't better than Watt bc Watt had more total production. Same with JPP.

I got it bro. We both know how to add. 2 + 2 = 4.

6.5 sacks > 5.5 sacks.

It makes sense.
6.5 sacks in 873 snaps

OR

5.5 sacks in 421 snaps.



Worker A makes 5 pizzas in 4 hours.

Worker B makes 6 pizzas in 8 hours.



Which is the more productive worker? Who is the better worker? Who helps the Pizza Store more?

Worker A gets off his shift in 4 hours and another worker comes in and starts making pizza. Whereas Worker B is still making the 6th pizza many hours later.

You do know how to do simple math problems right? Do you have any basic schooling at all?
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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If you're the owner of the pizza store, would you rather hire the Worker that can make you 5 pizzas in 4 hours or the worker that can make 6 pizzas in 8 hours?

If you hire the worker that can make 5 pizzas in 4 hours, then you can hire another worker to come in and work the remaining 4 hours of that 8 hour shift and make far more than 5 pizzas. Two of these workers working back-to-back 4 hour shifts will end up making 10 pizzas.

If you hire the worker that can only make 6 pizzas in that 8 hours shift, then you end up with... 6 pizzas.

So... 10 > 6, right?
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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6.5 sacks in 873 snaps

OR

5.5 sacks in 421 snaps.



Worker A makes 5 pizzas in 4 hours.

Worker B makes 6 pizzas in 8 hours.



Which is the more productive worker? Who is the better worker? Who helps the Pizza Store more?

Worker A gets off his shift in 4 hours and another worker comes in and starts making pizza. Whereas Worker B is still making the 6th pizza many hours later.

You do know how to do simple math problems right? Do you have any basic schooling at all?
Exactly.

Player A had 6.5 sacks in 2013.

Player B had 5.5 sacks in 2013.

There are 16 games in an NFL season.

Player A had more sacks/game than Player B. Player A was more productive per game than Player B.

We got it man. It makes sense. That's why JJ Watt is better than both of them, and Watt and JPP are both better than Graham.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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So these pizza are they Meat Lovers?
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Jalapenos or Buffalo chicken for me.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Exactly.

Player A had 6.5 sacks in 2013.

Player B had 5.5 sacks in 2013.

There are 16 games in an NFL season.

Player A had more sacks/game than Player B. Player A was more productive per game than Player B.

We got it man. It makes sense. That's why JJ Watt is better than both of them, and Watt and JPP are both better than Graham.
So you just completely disregard the number of snaps played, right?

You'd be a really crappy business owner. Would you hire the slow guy who takes all 8 hours to make 6 pizzas when instead you could hire the guy that makes 5 pizzas in 4 hours and then you can give him the whole shift or hire someone else to work the rest of the shift?

Sticking your head in the sand about Pierre Paul taking twice as long to get similar levels of production is not that smart.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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Jalapenos or Buffalo chicken for me.
I'm literally eating Buffalo Chicken right now
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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So you just completely disregard the number of snaps played, right?

You'd be a really crappy business owner. Would you hire the slow guy who takes all 8 hours to make 6 pizzas when instead you could hire the guy that makes 5 pizzas in 4 hours and then you can give him the whole shift or hire someone else to work the rest of the shift?
Not really, BBD would avoid the guy who's incapable of working for more than 4 hours without hurting himself and creating a potential lawsuit. Seems pretty smart to me, especially when literally everytime the guy has tried to work for more than 4 hours he has gotten horrifically injured.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Not really, BBD would avoid the guy who's incapable of working for more than 4 hours without hurting himself and creating a potential lawsuit. Seems pretty smart to me, especially when literally everytime the guy has tried to work for more than 4 hours he has gotten horrifically injured.
Except that Graham is the guy who only worked 4 hours because the boss was sleeping with the employee who worked the other 4 hours of that 8 hour shift.

In any other pizza shop (team), Graham is working 8 hours (playing all of those snaps) and making 10 pizzas (getting 10+ sacks).
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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So you just completely disregard the number of snaps played, right?

You'd be a really crappy business owner. Would you hire the slow guy who takes all 8 hours to make 6 pizzas when instead you could hire the guy that makes 5 pizzas in 4 hours and then you can give him the whole shift or hire someone else to work the rest of the shift?
Right, there's X amount of snaps played per game.

There is exactly 1 game played per week. That never changes. So the number of snaps doesn't matter, bc the number of games played per week, per year never changes in the regular season.

So the # that matters, as you stated already, is the production per game. As long as player A has more production per game than Player B, he's a better player.

Records are determined on a per game basis. So since Player A is more productive PER GAME, he's a better player. It makes sense.

That's why JJ Watt is better than Brandon Graham even though Graham was better per snap. Watt was better PER GAME. And game results result in wins and losses.

We got it bro.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Because this is a draft countdown forum and we concern ourselves primarily with evaluation of draft talent.

Graham was my favorite player from the 2010 draft and I've been a strong proponent of his for along time. I also am on record as saying that Pierre Paul would be a bust, and I still think it is possible to look back on his career and say "he had one good year and that was it".


This is a hot button issue for me as a draft evaluator.
So you are incredibly biased. Got it.

Coughlin and JPP watched the tape. It's obvious to anyone who watches that JPP is doubled/chipped a ton. It's obvious Graham isn't. This is a big reason why Graham has so much success on top of facing RTs more than LTs.

Graham is a good part time player but JPP is clearly much better.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Right, there's X amount of snaps played per game.

There is exactly 1 game played per week. That never changes. So the number of snaps doesn't matter, bc the number of games played per week, per year never changes in the regular season.
But we are looking at individual talent.

Individual performance.

The most important thing is how good a player is; how efficient he is.

What can he accomplish in 10 snaps? In 20 snaps? In a 100 snaps?

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So the # that matters, as you stated already, is the production per game. As long as player A has more production per game than Player B, he's a better player.
No, production per snap. Football is a game of snaps. Plays.

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Records are determined on a per game basis. So since Player A is more productive PER GAME, he's a better player. It makes sense.
Per snap. Per snap. Please read.

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That's why JJ Watt is better than Brandon Graham even though Graham was better per snap. Watt was better PER GAME. And game results result in wins and losses.

We got it bro.
You're totally wrong. We look at stats on a per play basis.

Why do you think there is the Yards Per Attempt stat for QBs and RBs? Yards per reception for WRs?
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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I'm literally eating Buffalo Chicken right now
Man that's the best!
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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If we just looked at total production, regardless of snaps, and ignored snaps, we would say that someone like Cameron wake was unworthy of being made a full time player because he did less than someone who played twice as many snaps.

But Wake was moved to a full time role partly because of how EFFICIENT he was in limited snaps, and now he's one of the best players in the NFL.

The same thing applies to Graham.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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If Graham was a top-ten pass rusher in the NFL he would start! He would play more than 42% of the defensive snaps. Oh I forgot. The Eagles coaching staff is so dumb that they kept a great pass rusher on the bench because they love an inferior Jason Babin so much more. But hey, he is gone now so I'm sure next year Graham will break out and get 20 sacks in 2013. But what if he doesn't? What is your excuse then?
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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