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Old 04-12-2013, 12:35 AM    (permalink
NMfootball85
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Originally Posted by brasho View Post
It's hard for a QB to improve when he is was on his 3rd OC in his 4 years in the league. It's not like he's got the wheels like Newton, Griffin, or Kaepernick to be his own checkdown. He has to do it with his arm, on a team that has lacked weapons for a long time, and hasn't had a D that has been any better than bottom 10 since he got there.

He's got tons to do to improve his game, but he isn't 25 yet, played great for all of 2010 and most of 2012 (threw 27 TDs and 17 INTs and 8 of those INTs came in a 2 game stretch late in the season. He had a 5 game stretch earlier in the season where he was well above 100 rating, had 13 TDs to 1 IN. He needs to be more consistent... and he needs more help. Dallas Clark was horrible for him last season and he was discouraged from using his feet to help him as well. His mechanics have been off since 2010. Once he gets his mechanics back and after a 2nd year with the same Buc OC, he will be fine.

Anybody suggesting that ANY 3rd round QB can come in right away and be better than him has no clue what they are talking about. Landry Jones? I don't even have to prove that ridiculous point wrong. Once the 1st and 2nd rounds are over and Landry Jones isn't drafted, anybody that has made a foolish claim of him being a 1st rounder will be proven wrong.
What is foolish is that freeman was a first rounder.. Landry wont be a third round QB he wont make it past Sand Diego in the Second.. . Landry played in the Big twelve same as freeman and blew away his performance the best freeman can muster is 58% of his passes in college and in the NFL.. Landry is much more accurate (66% 2012 and 63% average) Landry had 2x as many passing yards 16467 yards to Freeman 8000 pass yards in just 10 more games and freeman threw 44 td's to Jones 123... If freeman was better then why did he not put up those numbers.. Team GM's lie this time of year you cant believe what you hear in the media. Jones is underrated in the media but not with the teams.. Freeman is mediocre at best..

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Old 04-12-2013, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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Well, I see you finally got to the point. Jones is some cold garbage.
What the heck are you talking about?? The thread was about how Josh freeman big twelve first round QB was Garbage not Landry Jones.. I made the point that in College freeman only completed 58% of his passes and in the NFL he only completed 58% of his passes.. His YPA is the same too.. Freeman was a big twelve first rounder put only had 8000 yards in 3 years and Jones had 16647 in just 10 more starts.. Freeman had 44 TD passes and Jones had 123.. Black Bolt are you a Chargers fan??? Cause Jones may end up as Phillip Rivers competition.. the New GM is a Bill Polian protege and Polian says Jones is the best QB in the class and Gorge Whitfield who coached Polian QB's says Jones is a first rounder.. I will Laugh if Jones goes to the Chargers...
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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Jones isn't good.
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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Landry Jones just seems like the classic system QB.

I can't buy into him.
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"I wasn't going to lose to Miami, no matter what," Freeman said. "It means a lot to go out there and beat them. Every time I get a chance, I want to destroy them."
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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Landry Jones just seems like the classic system QB.

I can't buy into him.

Yeah Colt Breenan who played in Hawii against no competition who was 6'2 and had average to low numbers who was drafted in the 6th and couldnt make it on a at the time bad redskins squad was a system QB..
2006 406 559 5549 72.6 9.93 79 58 12

Jones is 6'4 230 lbs played in the big twelve against top 25 competition. He out preformed 7 previous 1st round QB's in the last 6 years, (young, Bradford, Gabbert, Tannehill, weedon, freeman) Bradford and Tannehill will be good. Jones who is the all time leading big 12 passer is not a system guy and deserves his shot it wil get it..
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:42 AM    (permalink
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Jones didn't outperform Bradford. Bradford was/is considerably better than Jones.

Jones has tools but the system is a big part of his game. Your entire argument for Jones is purely based on numbers. I bet you could give me an argument why he is on par with Luck as a prospect.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:44 AM    (permalink
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Jones isn't good.
You are right he ist good he is the best in this class. and was ranked third in the previous class.. OU fans hate him because he didnt win the national championship and go undefeated but 7-3, 12-2, 10-3, 10-3 is pretty darn good... No one is perfect.. you dont become the 3rd all time NCaa passer at a National power house bcs school Like OU and suck..
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:46 AM    (permalink
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Nah, Barkley would have went 3rd had he came out last year. When he doesnt go in the first 3 rounds...you stop posting here k? Sweet.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:47 AM    (permalink
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Jones doesn't suck. He was a very good college QB, but he wasn't elite or even great.
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Old 04-12-2013, 04:00 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by G Mobile View Post
Jones didn't outperform Bradford. Bradford was/is considerably better than Jones.

Jones has tools but the system is a big part of his game. Your entire argument for Jones is purely based on numbers. I bet you could give me an argument why he is on par with Luck as a prospect.
Bradford was in the same system as Jones, Bradford had one perfect season that no one will ever eclipse 2008 when OU was undefeated and played for the national championship
Braford stats
2007 237 341 3121 69.5 9.15 65 36 8 12 176.5
2008 328 483 4720 67.9 9.77 77 50 8 11 180.8
2009 39 69 562 56.5 8.15 64 2 0 2 134.5

Where Jones Eclipsed Bradford was durability and success over 4 years not just two. Jones owns all the passing records and most wins at OU as well as big Twelve and National records.. Higher attempt numbers changes things Bradford only threw it 900 passes as a starter Jones threw it 2183 it is easier to get higher completion% with a lot fewer passes..

As far as luck goes, they were both Coached by George Whitfield who says that Jones is a first rounder for sure... so I am sure there are some similarities.. I make my arguments mostly on stats not habits or attributes because those things can be subjective and over or under hyped and will show up in the results which is really what matters.. average to poor QB's in college are not Miraculously going to be better in the NFL.. Freeman and Gabbert are good examples of that. Jones has a very accurate big arm with a quick release who is good at avoiding pressure.. Jones was only sacked 1 per 40 attempts. Its hard to compare.. Luck is very good I am not saying he is not.. but his higher completion rate was on 1100 passes Jones was on 2183.. Last year luck threw it 619 times for 4300 yds but only completed 54% and had 18 ints and 41 sacks.. Maybe luck didnt do so well with pressure either. the more you throw it the more the defense blitzes the better the coverage the more that can go wrong.. Number of attempts changes things... They both will do well in the NFL
Luck stats.
2009 162 288 2575 56.3 8.94 63 13 4 6 143.5
2010 263 372 3338 70.7 8.97 81 32 8 6 170.2
2011 288 404 3517 71.3 8.71 62 37 10 11 169.

Jones did beat Stanford in the 2009 fiesta bowl put up 418 yard 3 td's
Jones also beat Geno, Manuel , RG111, Tannehill and Weedon. in head to head match ups
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Old 04-12-2013, 04:04 AM    (permalink
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Nah, Barkley would have went 3rd had he came out last year. When he doesnt go in the first 3 rounds...you stop posting here k? Sweet.
Barkley will be decent with a good O line... he does not have the arm strength to do any deep drops he is a dink and dunk specialist.. To small weak arm total lack of mobility high int rate and sack rate that spells success.. right there.
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Old 04-12-2013, 04:10 AM    (permalink
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Jones doesn't suck. He was a very good college QB, but he wasn't elite or even great.
by what standard do you consider Elite or Great.. winning the National Championship??? very few do.. i think 39-11 going to 4 bowl games 3 wins one BCS Bowl win and two Conference championships, being the only QB ever to throw for at least 3000 yards and 26 tds in all 4 years.. 3rd all time NCAA in yards completions attempts and TD's yeah i think that is elite and great.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:36 AM    (permalink
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First off, Colt Brennan caught a severe injury bug in D.C. If he'd been healthy his entire time here, there's a strong possibility he'd be the Skins starting QB.
He was playing with that much juice here before his body started breaking down.

Secondly, I wish Landry Jones' fanboys would stop acting like there's a one-to-one correlation between college stats and production and statistical performance in the NFL.

I'm more impressed with how Freeman has played as a pro QB than anything Landry Jones has done as a Sooner.

I like many others just don't see 'it' with Jones. Maybe we're overlooking it. Maybe he just doesn't have it.

For instance, I could go on and on about Barkley's negatives, but sometimes when you watch him play you just see that he's got 'it'. When he's protected. But it might just be 'it' for the college level. Barkley may not be able to carry over his in-game intangibles into the pros.

I thought Landry Jones had 'it' in 2010, but I feel like I never saw that QB again in the games I saw.

And last year if Jones had come out, there's no way he was thought to be the third best prospect in the class if Barkley had declared too. I know Shanahan wouldn't have drafted him. In fact if Luck/RG3/Barkley/Jones had all been in the 2011 draft, the SKins would not have traded up from the 6th pick and taken either RG3 or Barkley, whoever fell to them at their spot.

Jones has a chance to develop into a starter. He profiles to a Matt Schaub type player. But he doesn't have a first round draft grade.

Maybe when Jones starts playing football for a paycheck, he finds his courage again.

Josh Freeman still has a higher ceiling as a pro anyway.
In fact at this point I think Freeman's career is tracking very similarly to Eli's and Flacco's, talented but inconsistent QBs early in their careers.

Schiano better get a clue. He's not going to very easily find a better starting QB than Freeman.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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First off. Freeman did not have 3 coordinators in 4 years. Jagazinski was fired but they kept the same offense. He was in the same offense for 3 years.

2nd. Matt Ryan had to learn a new offense as well in 2012. He didn't have a problem.

There's too many excuses that surround josh freeman tht I just get sick of. Yeah the secondary was bad but I can't tell you how many times you watch him stall drives. #captain 3 and out or captain turnover.

He has several 4th qtr comebacks but they've been against poor defenses. Even in 2010 his worst performances came gainst playoff caliber teams.
Still plays his worst.

He doesn't look off defenders , doesn't anticipate well, stares down his first read and won't go through progressions, lacks poise, gets rattled easily, and inconsistent mehancics and footwork.

Not to mention his ability to read defenses comes in to question. He flourished in situations last ear when defenses stacked the 8 men in the box and gave 1-1 matchups with Jackson and Williams and he hit some deep balls. After that 5 game stretch starting with Carolina defenses started mixing coverages and easily read Freeman's eyes as they don't move from that first read. They stay locked to that side of the field and it's an easy tell. Too much tunnel vision. Not only that but mixing up zone and man really confused him. Blitzes rattled him

He ranked 25th in the league in 3rd completion percentage and conversions at under34%.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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I never thought the Bucs as of late had much on offense skill position wise other than Doug Martin and VJax. Who else on that offense do other teams covet??

He doesn't look off defenders , doesn't anticipate well, stares down his first read and won't go through progressions, lacks poise, gets rattled easily, and inconsistent mehancics and footwork.

Sure he needs to improve in these areas, but if Freeman couldn't do any of those things, he wouldn't be playing QB in the NFL.

The only way IMO the Bucs upgrade the QB position is picking high in the first round, or else they trade for an unproven young backup.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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Funbuncher you are dead on with the Eli and Flacco comparisons.
Freeman doesn't have the luxury of a good D though, in fact the Bucs have put some of the worst defenses in the history of the franchise on the field since Freeman has been here. Freeman has his faults but he's not the problem in Tampa.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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Funbuncher you are dead on with the Eli and Flacco comparisons.
Freeman doesn't have the luxury of a good D though, in fact the Bucs have put some of the worst defenses in the history of the franchise on the field since Freeman has been here. Freeman has his faults but he's not the problem in Tampa.

It's not just that. Freeman hasn't had anyone to challenge him for his job. To make him any better. That's what schiano wants to do. Competition brings the best out of players.

And Flacco and Eli do not belong in the same sentence as freeman.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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I never thought the Bucs as of late had much on offense skill position wise other than Doug Martin and VJax. Who else on that offense do other teams covet??
A good QB elevates the play of others around him. Vincent Jackson, Doug Martin, and other guys is MORE than enough for a good QB to put up top-10 production.

I hate when people make excuses like "He doesn't have a good RB" or "he has no playmakers".

Look at the 2010/2011 Colts. It sure looked like there were a lot of playmakers there when Peyton Manning was playing. And then all of sudden, the playmakers suddenly disappeared when the starting QBs were Kerry Collins and Curtis Painter! How strange...
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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A good QB elevates the play of others around him. Vincent Jackson, Doug Martin, and other guys is MORE than enough for a good QB to put up top-10 production.

I hate when people make excuses like "He doesn't have a good RB" or "he has no playmakers".

Look at the 2010/2011 Colts. It sure looked like there were a lot of playmakers there when Peyton Manning was playing. And then all of sudden, the playmakers suddenly disappeared when the starting QBs were Kerry Collins and Curtis Painter! How strange...

Look at your standard; Peyton Manning elevates average skill position talent.
Duh. One of the greatest to ever play the game. Ditto for Brady playing with a bunch of 'who?' at WR for most of his career.

But when you look at guys like Flacco, Eli, Romo, Rivers, Ryan, Stafford and Rodgers, they've had guys at either TE, WR or both who were considered among the best in the league at their positions.
IMO Freeman has the potential to be a very good QB. He's not the best signal caller of his generation. Good QBs need TALENT around them to be successful.

Losing 5 straight to end the season is rough, but those were Buccaneers losses, not just the quarterback.

In those 5 consecutive losses, teams except for Philly shut down Doug Martin, forcing Freeman to throw the ball. To who other than V Jax??

(Just noticed if Martin hadn't been so damned inconsistent running the football last season, he would have had close to 1800 yards rushing last season. 7 games in '12 where he rushed for 66 yards or less.)

When a young QB throws for over 4K yds, 27 TDs/17 INTs, and it's assumed he didn't play well, I think you stick with that guy for a while longer.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by batsandgats View Post
you forgot to mention that 4 of those 8 interceptions came against the Saints, the worst defense in NFL history, of course only yardage wise but they weren't much better in other areas, had a hard time getting turnovers, mainly interceptions. I thought he had promise but he was terrible in that game, and has been inconsistent in many others. I don't think it hurts to bring in competition. What would it hurt? I don't think they would get someone in the 3rd with the plans of being a starter, but to bring competition, if that rattles him then so be it, otherwise it could make him step his game up. I mean he has been in the league 4 years, why not bring in competition for the 5th? how many years do you give him to develop? 5? 6?
Bad defense, good defense, it doesn't matter. All QBs have their bad days, even the worst D's have good days. Four INTs is four INTs.

Here's the thing with picking up a QB this year... fans always say, "Sign this guy," or, "draft one with our #1 pick," but it doesn't mean anything to sign a guy or draft a guy if there is nobody worth signing or drafting. This is a bad year to want to draft a QB. They can draft whomever they want, there's a very good chance he'll suck in the long run, whether they take him in round 1 or 7.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NMfootball85 View Post
What is foolish is that freeman was a first rounder.. Landry wont be a third round QB he wont make it past Sand Diego in the Second.. . Landry played in the Big twelve same as freeman and blew away his performance the best freeman can muster is 58% of his passes in college and in the NFL.. Landry is much more accurate (66% 2012 and 63% average) Landry had 2x as many passing yards 16467 yards to Freeman 8000 pass yards in just 10 more games and freeman threw 44 td's to Jones 123... If freeman was better then why did he not put up those numbers.. Team GM's lie this time of year you cant believe what you hear in the media. Jones is underrated in the media but not with the teams.. Freeman is mediocre at best..
Oh, so is it numbers that makes a QB? Okay, then. Kliff Kingsbury is better than both of them... BJ Symmons... but none are greater than Graham Harrell. Give me a break with the stats. Horrible argument by you. Number one, stats are easily inflated. Number two, Kansas St. was/is a garbage team around Freeman, Jones had/has one of the most talented teams in the nation.

So your line in the sand is drawn. If Landry makes it past San Diego in round 2, then you're wrong. Oh, and Freeman was selected #17 overall in his draft year. Oh, and by the way, Landry Jones is exactly 15 months younger than Freeman. Yeah... he's barely younger, has ZERO pro experience, you're really on to something there.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BallerT1215 View Post
Landry Jones just seems like the classic system QB.

I can't buy into him.
What are you talking about? He's the next Jason White or Josh Heupel. He's the awesomest.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Jones doesn't suck. He was a very good college QB, but he wasn't elite or even great.
No, you're right. In all honesty, he is a 3rd to 4th round QB. He has a lot to work with. Far from elite... or even very good... but the tools are there. Sometimes he looks very good, other times not at all.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NMfootball85 View Post
by what standard do you consider Elite or Great.. winning the National Championship??? very few do.. i think 39-11 going to 4 bowl games 3 wins one BCS Bowl win and two Conference championships, being the only QB ever to throw for at least 3000 yards and 26 tds in all 4 years.. 3rd all time NCAA in yards completions attempts and TD's yeah i think that is elite and great.
Obviously he's great... in your eyes. Admit you have a man crush on him and move on.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NMfootball85 View Post
Bradford was in the same system as Jones, Bradford had one perfect season that no one will ever eclipse 2008 when OU was undefeated and played for the national championship
Braford stats
2007 237 341 3121 69.5 9.15 65 36 8 12 176.5
2008 328 483 4720 67.9 9.77 77 50 8 11 180.8
2009 39 69 562 56.5 8.15 64 2 0 2 134.5

Where Jones Eclipsed Bradford was durability and success over 4 years not just two. Jones owns all the passing records and most wins at OU as well as big Twelve and National records.. Higher attempt numbers changes things Bradford only threw it 900 passes as a starter Jones threw it 2183 it is easier to get higher completion% with a lot fewer passes..

As far as luck goes, they were both Coached by George Whitfield who says that Jones is a first rounder for sure... so I am sure there are some similarities.. I make my arguments mostly on stats not habits or attributes because those things can be subjective and over or under hyped and will show up in the results which is really what matters.. average to poor QB's in college are not Miraculously going to be better in the NFL.. Freeman and Gabbert are good examples of that. Jones has a very accurate big arm with a quick release who is good at avoiding pressure.. Jones was only sacked 1 per 40 attempts. Its hard to compare.. Luck is very good I am not saying he is not.. but his higher completion rate was on 1100 passes Jones was on 2183.. Last year luck threw it 619 times for 4300 yds but only completed 54% and had 18 ints and 41 sacks.. Maybe luck didnt do so well with pressure either. the more you throw it the more the defense blitzes the better the coverage the more that can go wrong.. Number of attempts changes things... They both will do well in the NFL
Luck stats.
2009 162 288 2575 56.3 8.94 63 13 4 6 143.5
2010 263 372 3338 70.7 8.97 81 32 8 6 170.2
2011 288 404 3517 71.3 8.71 62 37 10 11 169.

Jones did beat Stanford in the 2009 fiesta bowl put up 418 yard 3 td's
Jones also beat Geno, Manuel , RG111, Tannehill and Weedon. in head to head match ups
Stats are not objective at all, especially in college. There have been plenty of QBs who put up great numbers in college that were in no way indicative of the abilities of the QB. Nobodies can put up numbers in college in the right system. Jones has talent but his numbers are pumped up because of the offense and the sheer number of passes he attempts. Put Luck in Oklahoma in that offense and he puts Jones to shame just like Bradford did. More aattempts doesn't just make completion percentage drop. The only reason Jones has all those records is because he threw the ball a ton, not because he was awesome. He threw a bunch and produced decently for the number of attempts.

Lucks pro stats have nothing to do with college numbers.It's just not a comparison that is valid. Luck had a poor OL and played in on of the most vertical offenses. He did outstanding for what he had to work with. Those are solid numbers for the consistent pressure he faced on his 7 step drops.

Also Luck didnt play in that Sun Bowl game. So Jones beat Tavita Pritchard, who struggled to even complete passes. I rewatched that game last month and he was ******* brutal at QB. It's a completely different game with even a semi competent QB. It was cool watching Trent Richardson play C in that game.
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