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Old 04-26-2013, 11:50 AM    (permalink
Nastradamus
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
Just want to point out that the Texans aren't getting enough love in this thread. They just drafted Roddy White to play across from Andre Johnson. Hopkins was the best WR prospect in the draft.
Yes! Thought I was the only one who saw Roddy in Nuke.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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Pretty much every year there is a group of teams that win the first round in a certain way. Usually with later picks, they let the draft come to them, find a nice prospect and get good value.

Carolina - Seemed general consensus that they really needed a DT. DT's didn't get pushed up the draft board like some predicted. So they stood their ground and got a prospect that would have been pipe dream a couple of months ago.

Pittsburgh - Jarvis Jones falling to them almost seemed like fate. Despite my reservations about Worilds, Pittsburgh will almost always have a super stacked 3-4 stable of LB's.

Cincinnati - figured they needed more help on D, but the Bengals looking and acting like an upper echelon team is one of the more mind boggling things in the NFL. Have a nice but somewhat limited QB, but want a top level offense? Get top level skill position players.

Green Bay - need 3-4 DE and the only real one with a first round grade goes right to them.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Yes! Thought I was the only one who saw Roddy in Nuke.
Well they are both black and have dreadlocks...
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Winners:

Carolina Panthers.

Pittsburgh Steelers.

Green Bay Packers.

Houston Texans

Common theme here. Teams that let the draft come to them. All three teams stood their ground and couldn't pick fast enough. This draft is deep without the elite prospects up top. It does help that none of these teams were looking for pass rushers (Jarvis Jones pos.?) or offensive line, all did their homework on this draft.

Losers:

Miami Dolphins. Although they moved up to #3 at a great price, I really don't think that Dion Jordan was the pick. I get that they moved up to get the guy they wanted but they're putting Jordan in a 43. Jordan was valuable in college because of his size and versatility in coverage. Putting his hand in the ground 98% of the time is going to expose him. He's going to need to get a lot stronger and fill out his frame.

Dallas Cowboys. Really don't need to explain. They do need help all across the line but this wasn't the guy to reach for.

Cleveland Browns. So many holes and needs. Mingo and Kruger could change their culture on defense but I would have liked to see them pair Milliner with Haden.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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I personally did not like the Jordan pick at all but the Phins must really love him. I would not have liked the trade up if it was for Johnson. If I were them I would have rather traded the second for Albert and stood pat at 12 to take the best defensive player. They may have gotten good value for the trade up but that high second round pick would be real nice to have right about now.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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I'll probably get bashed for this but I really felt like the Vikings came out as one of my bigger losers of day one. First, I never bought into the hype for Sharrif Floyd as a top 10 guy. I've always had him as a fringe first round guy. I think where the Vikings got him was about the right value and probably the best of the three first round picks although I still don't consider him an elite prospect.

The next two picks were the ones that really didnt do it for me. I've always considered Rhodes more of a FS prospect then a starting CB. He has the size that is the current flavor of the month for NFL corners thanks to the Seattle duo but he otherwise lacks alot of what makes them so good and I think he was overrated mostly due to his size. He is fast yes but I am not sure he is fluid enough to succeed as a starting corner and I question his instincts. Obviously stronger in man coverage than in zone and has had continuous issues with inconsistencies. Shot up the draft boards after his combine workout but doesnt pass the eye test as a first rounder for me watching game tape.

The trade up for Patterson though was imo one of the worst moves in the first round. I know some people are high on Pattersons potential but underclassman with high potential and limited production are not players I value highly. For me, he is a much bigger risk than his "potential" is worth. Even moreso considering the trade made. When you consider the depth of equivalent if not better talent available at WR in the 2nd and even 3rd round this year, I can't comprehend giving up the quantity of picks that the Vikings did to move up for Patterson. I know they will receive a lot of "A" grades from pundits and that alone should tell you a lot...
How did the Vikings 'buy the hype' when they got him at 23? Fringe first round you say, 23 is closer to fringe first round than number 3 is. I don't understand your criticism here. You even accept the value of the pick so why even bring it up?

Point 2, personal distaste is fine, you don't like him, I won't argue. If we're in the 'biggest loser' conversation however, we can only judge right now on value at the time. Nobody seems to question that, whether or not he pans out isn't worth the effort to debate, it's accepted as at least a passable pick now, wouldn't say 'bad'.

You can't comprehend giving up a 3rd, 4th and 7th? Um, i'm starting to question your motives here. A 3rd and 4th would hardly be considered as a franchise killer. I understand and accept your point about production and would definitely agree, however I feel it's the only real point in your post with the rest serving as hyperbole there merely to satisfy the original agenda.

I know my whole post sounds awfully negative but I did appreciate reading your contrarian opinion, and agreed with the idea of it not being as great as advertised, but players of decent value at decent spots, with average and acceptable compensation for the trade. Come on now. Hardly in the conversation for worst are we?

I say all this with the full knowledge that the last time I wrote out a long ass post in the defence of the Vikings was to stick up for Tavaris Jackson. I therefore accept the probability of my talking bollocks is quite high.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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I would also add that the Vikings still have a 4th, 5th, 6th, and two 7th. They moved up 25 spots into the 1st from the late 2nd. Patterson clearly was getting an A grade from the Vikings FO and they have been brilliant with the draft these past few years. I also personally really like him as a prospect so I am hopeful.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Vikings won big IMO.

If you look at Mayock's mock, they ended up with his 2nd, 20th and 30th ranked players. Even if they didn't have any more picks, that is a solid draft in itself.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Something to note about the Vikings/Pats trade:

29-32 are MUCH more valuable than 33-36 because teams with first round picks get an option of keeping the player under the rookie contract for an extra year.

I still think too much was given up, but I can live with it.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Umm, explain to me how the Jets are even remotely close to the biggest losers? We didn't fill needs or get to trade back, but who did you want them to pick at those spots? We took BPA or close to it, how is that 'losing'? And how does dion Jordan fit as a 4-3 de at all? Your post makes zero sense.
How doesn't he fit? He's 6-6, 250 lbs and runs a sub 4.6 40. He's the most versatile defender in the draft and can fit at OLB or RDE in our 4-3. Has enough strength and speed to be a threat off the edge at defensive end and enough experience and mobility to stick at OLB next to Ellerbe and Wheeler in what will be one of the top LB units in all of football next season. Match that up with our front four of Cam Wake, Randy Starks, Paul Soliai and Jared Odrick and that they just upgraded the defense in a HUGE way.

Yes, Dee was a great pick and would have started for us as well, but I'm also pretty sure if Dion Jordan was available for New York, they wouldn't have hesitated one second to turn that pick in.

How is Sheldon a good fit for you guys? All the analysts were saying last night was how do you take that guy at that spot with guys like Jarvis Jones and Star Lotulelei on the board. Embarrassing.

It's no wonder why your team so completely devoid of talent. It's the morons at the top making all these picks trying to accommodate that overrated piece of **** you guys call a head coach.

How about adding some offensive weapons to support your QB instead of bringing in guys like Tebow and problem children like Santonio Holmes, while letting go of Sanchez's favorite target, Dustin Keller. They don't want this guy to be successful, it's a shame and it's pretty painstakingly obvious. It's like your own management is trying to sabotage their own team.

So I can understand why you guys are so angry all the time. I'd almost feel bad if I didn't hate you guys so much.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Something to note about the Vikings/Pats trade:

29-32 are MUCH more valuable than 33-36 because teams with first round picks get an option of keeping the player under the rookie contract for an extra year.

I still think too much was given up, but I can live with it.
Do they really? Every 1st round rookie contract I saw said 4 years, and I don't see the 5th being RFA or team option or anything, how's that work exactly?
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Do they really? Every 1st round rookie contract I saw said 4 years, and I don't see the 5th being RFA or team option or anything, how's that work exactly?
http://rulingsports.com/2012/04/25/t...kie-contracts/

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Under the new CBA, rookies that are drafted receive four-year contracts. If a rookie is drafted in the first round, clubs can exercise a fifth-year option for the player’s rights. According to Slough, “In all likelihood, unless [the player] flames out, it will be a five-year deal for first rounders.” If a rookie is undrafted, he will receive a three-year contract.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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The saints are losers by drafting the best safety in the draft?
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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I honestly had not even thought about that. I like the trade for the Vikings even more now.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Winners:

Carolina Panthers.

Pittsburgh Steelers.

Green Bay Packers.

Houston Texans

Common theme here. Teams that let the draft come to them. All three teams stood their ground and couldn't pick fast enough. This draft is deep without the elite prospects up top. It does help that none of these teams were looking for pass rushers (Jarvis Jones pos.?) or offensive line, all did their homework on this draft.

Losers:

Miami Dolphins. Although they moved up to #3 at a great price, I really don't think that Dion Jordan was the pick. I get that they moved up to get the guy they wanted but they're putting Jordan in a 43. Jordan was valuable in college because of his size and versatility in coverage. Putting his hand in the ground 98% of the time is going to expose him. He's going to need to get a lot stronger and fill out his frame.

Dallas Cowboys. Really don't need to explain. They do need help all across the line but this wasn't the guy to reach for.

Cleveland Browns. So many holes and needs. Mingo and Kruger could change their culture on defense but I would have liked to see them pair Milliner with Haden.
Consider this then. As far as I'm aware based on what the management has said so far is that they want to use Jordan in a variety of ways. The belief here is that they will use Jordan like Denver uses Von Miller. Move him around at OLB in our 4-3 behind out big front on the early downs, letting him blitz at times and match up against tights ends like Gronkowski and Hernandez because he has the mobility and coverage ability to take those guys out of the gameplan. Then on obvious passing downs, he replaces Jared Odrick on the line and comes off the edge full tilt opposite Cam Wake. There is a specific plan in place to use this guy to upgrade the defense in a big way. They thought he was one of only a handful of elite talents in this draft and they went out and got him. Throw in that they addressed a BIG need and absolutely trade-raped Oakland on the value chart and the Dolphins were one of the bigger winners of Day 1 IMO, even though it's a biased one. :)

Does that alter the way you view the pick or change your opinion of it at all?
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Do they really? Every 1st round rookie contract I saw said 4 years, and I don't see the 5th being RFA or team option or anything, how's that work exactly?
New CBA adds a team option to add a fifth year to the contract of a first round draft pick, paying them the average of the top 10 highest paid players at that position (for picks 1-10) or the average of the third through twenty-fifth highest paid players at that position (for picks 11-32).

The fifth year option, if exercised, is fully guaranteed.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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How doesn't he fit? He's 6-6, 250 lbs and runs a sub 4.6 40. He's the most versatile defender in the draft and can fit at OLB or RDE in our 4-3. Has enough strength and speed to be a threat off the edge at defensive end and enough experience and mobility to stick at OLB next to Ellerbe and Wheeler in what will be one of the top LB units in all of football next season. Match that up with our front four of Cam Wake, Randy Starks, Paul Soliai and Jared Odrick and that they just upgraded the defense in a HUGE way.

Yes, Dee was a great pick and would have started for us as well, but I'm also pretty sure if Dion Jordan was available for New York, they wouldn't have hesitated one second to turn that pick in.

How is Sheldon a good fit for you guys? All the analysts were saying last night was how do you take that guy at that spot with guys like Jarvis Jones and Star Lotulelei on the board. Embarrassing.

It's no wonder why your team so completely devoid of talent. It's the morons at the top making all these picks trying to accommodate that overrated piece of **** you guys call a head coach.

How about adding some offensive weapons to support your QB instead of bringing in guys like Tebow and problem children like Santonio Holmes, while letting go of Sanchez's favorite target, Dustin Keller. They don't want this guy to be successful, it's a shame and it's pretty painstakingly obvious. It's like your own management is trying to sabotage their own team.

So I can understand why you guys are so angry all the time. I'd almost feel bad if I didn't hate you guys so much.
A few flaws with your post:

1. I never said Richardson was a fit on the Jets. I did say that we are likely switching schemes this year or next, however. (I find it hard to picture Rex being on the jets in 2014 as much as I like him)
2. The guy who made these picks wasn't the guy who made the picks leading up to this year. Idzik has 0 to do with the lack of talent on the current roster.
3. He isn't a fit at RE in a 4-3 and I have no idea what would make you think he is, just because he's 6'6? The only thing that makes sense is using him as a strong side lb on early downs and a nickel rusher.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:46 PM    (permalink
Robcards
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Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
New CBA adds a team option to add a fifth year to the contract of a first round draft pick, paying them the average of the top 10 highest paid players at that position (for picks 1-10) or the average of the third through twenty-fifth highest paid players at that position (for picks 11-32).

The fifth year option, if exercised, is fully guaranteed.
Thanks for the explanation! Didnt know that
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:49 PM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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Consider this then. As far as I'm aware based on what the management has said so far is that they want to use Jordan in a variety of ways. The belief here is that they will use Jordan like Denver uses Von Miller. Move him around at OLB in our 4-3 behind out big front on the early downs, letting him blitz at times and match up against tights ends like Gronkowski and Hernandez because he has the mobility and coverage ability to take those guys out of the gameplan. Then on obvious passing downs, he replaces Jared Odrick on the line and comes off the edge full tilt opposite Cam Wake. There is a specific plan in place to use this guy to upgrade the defense in a big way. They thought he was one of only a handful of elite talents in this draft and they went out and got him. Throw in that they addressed a BIG need and absolutely trade-raped Oakland on the value chart and the Dolphins were one of the bigger winners of Day 1 IMO, even though it's a biased one. :)

Does that alter the way you view the pick or change your opinion of it at all?
I know he's your guy now and you're going to take every possible measure to make sure that people understand their logic. I get what he's capable of, on a college level. I'm concerned that the Dolphins have all of these plans for him when he was used so sparingly at Oregon. Is he built for the NFL? I think he got by, not excelled in college and killed the combine. I see the versatility he brings in a perfect world. He has to be a lot stronger and bulkier to compensate for his height/lack of leverage. If he doesn't get the first push on the line of scrimmage, he's toast. Doesn't come back strong after that.

When you consider the players on the board and the loss of a second rounder in a draft like this, I'm not sold on the pick. Not to say he can't succeed. The zone scheme they plan to run will utilize Jordan's range in open field and lining up across from Wake will give him plenty of room to work. He does need to put on weight/get stronger.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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The saints are losers by drafting the best safety in the draft?
They didnt though. Vaccaro sucks
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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I'm a lot more skeptical about Dion Jordan flourishing in LB/Pass rusher role than I was Von Miller or even Bruce Irvin.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Denver Broncos?
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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you make a good point. ej manuel is better than nothing. but what made it so bad for me was that they picked ej manuel over geno smith. they could've had a good qb and they picked a terrible qb. but still, better than nothing. at least they have hope. sorry vid.
Brilliant insight, SuperPacker. Did you ever consider that the Bills likely did dozens, upon dozens, of hours of research on these players? Clearly, their research on Geno Smith was in consensus with most of the league considering that he is still available in round 2 and no team that needed a QB made any sort of move to press and acquire him. But please, continue telling me how they took a terrible QB over a "good one" because a few idiots on the internet ranked Geno Smith highly.

Internet "draft experts" gonna internet "draft expert".

Heres the hilarious thing about the Bills pick: had they taken Geno Smith at 16, they would have been applauded winners by nearly everyone and praised for trading down and still being able to draft "the best QB". LMAO.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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the team that picks geno tomorrow is an instant winner imo. getting a first round pick along with a potential franchise qb would be a great start to the draft. jaguars, eagles and cardinals, im looking at you!!

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Brilliant insight, SuperPacker. Did you ever consider that the Bills likely did dozens, upon dozens, of hours of research on these players? Clearly, their research on Geno Smith was in consensus with most of the league considering that he is still available in round 2 and no team that needed a QB made any sort of move to press and acquire him. But please, continue telling me how they took a terrible QB over a "good one" because a few idiots on the internet ranked Geno Smith highly.

Internet "draft experts" gonna internet "draft expert".

Heres the hilarious thing about the Bills pick: had they taken Geno Smith at 16, they would have been applauded winners by nearly everyone and praised for trading down and still being able to draft "the best QB". LMAO.
did you ever consider that i have watched ej manuel and would like to give my own opinion instead of just nodding my head no matter what every team does? if they liked ej manuel more than geno smith, they made the right pick, but i dont like ej manuel more than geno smith. why would i like that pick?
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:57 PM    (permalink
mightytitan9
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I personally like the Vikings draft, they moved up and got a WR with question marks, but he's better than anyone else who would have been there at 52.

They grabbed Floyd, who I never had as a top 5 pick, I had him around 15. I think he'll be a good fit, I think he really needed to go to a 4-3 to have a chance.

Rhodes was a little overrated on the boards as of late, but he is a solid CB at the selection.
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