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Old 04-26-2013, 12:04 PM    (permalink
metafour
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Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
did you ever consider that i have watched ej manuel and would like to give my own opinion instead of just nodding my head no matter what every team does?
Oh, you watched EJ Manuel? Surely you are now qualified to judge talent!

You are allowed to have your 'opinion'. What I will never grant is the behavior of 'I know better than the multiple paid professionals who evaluated these same prospects'. No, you do not know better. If you did, you wouldn't be posting on the internet right now.

The Bills did not pass on Andrew Luck to take Manuel. Look at where Geno Smith is right now, and look at what some writers with actual qualification said about him...he is clearly not evaluated as a top QB talent.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Apparently SP has Geno's **** in his mouth as he types these posts. Geno has the drive but the guy flourished in an offense that has QB produce huge numbers year after year... Just ask Weeden and Keenum... Oh don't forget Harrell.

Geno is not an elite prospect and I wouldn't be surprised if he has a worse career than Manuel, Barkley and Wilson. Actually I expect him to.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by metafour View Post
Oh, you watched EJ Manuel? Surely you are now qualified to judge talent!

You are allowed to have your 'opinion'. What I will never grant is the behavior of 'I know better than the multiple paid professionals who evaluated these same prospects'. No, you do not know better. If you did, you wouldn't be posting on the internet right now.

The Bills did not pass on Andrew Luck to take Manuel. Look at where Geno Smith is right now, and look at what some writers with actual qualification said about him...he is clearly not evaluated as a top QB talent.
People can be talented evaluators and post on the internet. Just because someone gets paid to do something doesn't always mean that they are superior to every single person who isn't getting paid to do it. I don't agree with your statement in all instances.

Regardless, there is no exact science to evaluations. Guys bust and gems are found all the time. Time will tell who the top QB is. I don't agree with your argument though that people can't judge talent by watching much of the same film that paid professionals do. Some of those paid people suck at it just like many internet posters do.

I'm not making any predictions on Geno versus EJ in this matter. I'll leave that to the other non-paid internet posters who aren't qualified to judge talent.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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IBC just dropped knowledge.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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I know he's your guy now and you're going to take every possible measure to make sure that people understand their logic. I get what he's capable of, on a college level. I'm concerned that the Dolphins have all of these plans for him when he was used so sparingly at Oregon. Is he built for the NFL? I think he got by, not excelled in college and killed the combine. I see the versatility he brings in a perfect world. He has to be a lot stronger and bulkier to compensate for his height/lack of leverage. If he doesn't get the first push on the line of scrimmage, he's toast. Doesn't come back strong after that.

When you consider the players on the board and the loss of a second rounder in a draft like this, I'm not sold on the pick. Not to say he can't succeed. The zone scheme they plan to run will utilize Jordan's range in open field and lining up across from Wake will give him plenty of room to work. He does need to put on weight/get stronger.
Agreed. Definitely needs to get stronger. But he did do 22 reps coming of shoulder surgery. So there is some natural strength there.

A lot of hate here for a guy most compare to a hybrid between Jason Taylor and Aldon Smith by guys WHO KNOW like Mike Mayock and Daniel Jeremiah.

Just sayin...
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by thebow305 View Post
Agreed. Definitely needs to get stronger. But he did do 22 reps coming of shoulder surgery. So there is some natural strength there.

A lot of hate here for a guy most compare to a hybrid between Jason Taylor and Aldon Smith by guys WHO KNOW like Mike Mayock and Daniel Jeremiah.

Just sayin...
I would stay away from using him as a part of your argument. The respect level for him is non-existent.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't use Mayock in an arguement either to be honest. He's very biased, falls in absolute love with some players and drops others for no real reason because all he says all the time is "i love this kid"
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by mightytitan9 View Post
I wouldn't use Mayock in an arguement either to be honest. He's very biased, falls in absolute love with some players and drops others for no real reason because all he says all the time is "i love this kid"
Mayock has some flaws, but he still can evaluate talent on a consistent basis.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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Apparently SP has Geno's **** in his mouth as he types these posts. Geno has the drive but the guy flourished in an offense that has QB produce huge numbers year after year... Just ask Weeden and Keenum... Oh don't forget Harrell.

Geno is not an elite prospect and I wouldn't be surprised if he has a worse career than Manuel, Barkley and Wilson. Actually I expect him to.
for liking a prospect? there are a lot of prospects I like in this draft. i dont think geno is some elite, better than andrew luck prospect, but i think he's better than ej manuel. that doesn't really say anything for how much i like geno.

and that "he flourished in an easy offense to flourish in" argument is unbelievably stupid. unless you're looking at his stats and projecting how good he'll be from that, i don't care what offense he's in. look at the actual throws he's making. if you stick andrew luck in the same offense as geno smith, and he does well, do you look at him and say "he was only good in that offense"? it's such a flawed argument.

cool, you don't like geno. see, i don't have a problem with it and im not going to go round saying you think you're better than people that are getting paid to do this and that you have ej manuel's dick in your mouth...

i'll say it again, why are people getting so upset? my opinion means next to nothing. and even if you don't agree with it, so what?
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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If every single post you have had in this thread didn't have some mention of Geno Smith I wouldn't accuse you of having his member in your man pleaser.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Guys, none of this Geno talk is gonna matter when Tyler Wilson is the best QB from this class anyways.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by mightytitan9 View Post
I wouldn't use Mayock in an arguement either to be honest. He's very biased, falls in absolute love with some players and drops others for no real reason because all he says all the time is "i love this kid"
Somewhat unfair. However if you don't see that his ability to analyze draft prospects is skewed towards what he played, then you are lying to yourself.

Taking out the outliers, like unconditional pimping of floyd for example, he is someone whose opinion matters.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by metafour View Post
Brilliant insight, SuperPacker. Did you ever consider that the Bills likely did dozens, upon dozens, of hours of research on these players? Clearly, their research on Geno Smith was in consensus with most of the league considering that he is still available in round 2 and no team that needed a QB made any sort of move to press and acquire him. But please, continue telling me how they took a terrible QB over a "good one" because a few idiots on the internet ranked Geno Smith highly.

Internet "draft experts" gonna internet "draft expert".

Heres the hilarious thing about the Bills pick: had they taken Geno Smith at 16, they would have been applauded winners by nearly everyone and praised for trading down and still being able to draft "the best QB". LMAO.
Did you consider that NO NFL team had any of these QBs rated first rounders, and it was the Bills who broke trend???

There's a lot of wishing and hoping with the EJ Manuel pick which is a bad formula for a first round QB.

No one that you can find had EJ Manuel rated ahead of Geno Smith, except the Bills management.

I don't root for players to bust, but I have a hard time seeing him develop into a better pro than Geno.
The comparisons to Kaepernick for Manuel are absurd.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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Guys, none of this Geno talk is gonna matter when Tyler Wilson is the best QB from this class anyways.
you think you're better than literally every other scout that doesn't think tyler wilson is a good QB???? obviously his dick is somewhere in your mouth.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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you think you're better than literally every other scout that doesn't think tyler wilson is a good QB???? obviously his dick is somewhere in your mouth.
I can't tell if he is being sarcastic or not but I actually agree with him.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket View Post
I'm surprised so many people think the Bills are losers. Normally this forum is littered with the idea of going out and getting your own QB. People here often say that reaching on a QB is better than not having one at all.

If there was ever a draft class to under value your first round pick and try to reach for a QB you think could be the future, this is it I think. It's not like they gave up the 1st overall pick for him. They did the smart thing, stayed calm and traded back.
Yeah, not following this logic.

Sure, they now have a young "franchise" QB, but -- you don't pick one to just say you picked one and made the team your own. I think most people hate this pick not because they tried to get a QB, but because of the QB they got. I don't see any way he's going to be in the NFL very long.

I would take about 5 QBs over him, probably. Again, no one's hating on them for trading down and taking a QB, it's the QB they got that is making a lot of people
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Somewhat unfair. However if you don't see that his ability to analyze draft prospects is skewed towards what he played, then you are lying to yourself.

Taking out the outliers, like unconditional pimping of floyd for example, he is someone whose opinion matters.
I agree that Mayock is one of the better ones out there, and he is definitely more knowledgeable in DBs than anything else.

His opinion may matter, but i'm not overly impressed with him
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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I can't tell if he is being sarcastic or not but I actually agree with him.
I'm not sarcastic about Tyler Wilson. Not only do I view him as the #1 QB but I think he's of the "franchise" caliber.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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I don't remember what people thought of Colin Kaepernick a few years ago. What was the consensus on him?
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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I liked what the Vikings did a lot. Not too often you feel like your top three picks are going to come in and be immediate contributors, if not impact players.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Leon Sandcastle View Post
I don't remember what people thought of Colin Kaepernick a few years ago. What was the consensus on him?
System QB
Played at Nevada in gimmick offense
Competition was weak.

The usual.
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"I wasn't going to lose to Miami, no matter what," Freeman said. "It means a lot to go out there and beat them. Every time I get a chance, I want to destroy them."
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Think anyone's gonna make a move for Mallett today?
Depends on whether Lombardi really has some control over there in Cleveland or not.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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The Buccaneers may not have had a first round pick, but I think they should be considered winners for landing Darrelle Revis for less than what it cost the Miami Dolphins to get Dion Jordan.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Agreed. Definitely needs to get stronger. But he did do 22 reps coming of shoulder surgery. So there is some natural strength there.

A lot of hate here for a guy most compare to a hybrid between Jason Taylor and Aldon Smith by guys WHO KNOW like Mike Mayock and Daniel Jeremiah.

Just sayin...
The reps are fine and all but I'm concerned more about his leverage and inability to recover from an initial burst. I'm fine with him everywhere else. Except with his hand on the ground. When you line up on the edge, you have a initial stand up position, allowing him to use his speed and long arms to swim. I don't like when his hand is on the ground. He'll line up against stronger OL with the upper hand in leverage, the absolute key in the trenches.

I just think he was drafted to play the wrong role. If you're drafting him with the intention of keeping his hand on the ground for more than 40% of the snaps he actually plays, then you drafted the wrong guy.

I'm going to omit the second part.

Obviously hindsight is a little unfair in evaluating the process especially in a case like this but no way do I give the 12 and 42 to move up to 3 for Dion Jordan. For Lane Johnson, yes. There was a run on passrushers, but there wasn't an one graded out as elite.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BallerT1215 View Post
System QB
Played at WVU in gimmick offense
Competition was weak.

The usual.
Fixed.

Who did I just describe?

Geno Smith. A QB with better tape and combine than Kaepernick. So none of those knocks dictate success in the NFL if we're using this simple template.
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