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Old 10-07-2013, 08:56 AM    (permalink
keylime_5
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
All in all this is only a big deal because it's October and not April. If Clowney fell out of the top 5 to a team like the Giants everyone would be kicking themselves for it after the fact. All stuff like this does is give a team a steal, then once he starts producing and trying for that team nobody will care about this anymore.
What do you mean "out of the top 5"? haha, the Giants are on a collision course for a top 3 pick.
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
I know this is going to happen, and it makes me mad.
I hope this happens so bad. You know we'll be a SB contender next year, so getting Clowney to go with our rebuild would be so amazing.

I need this to happen. I hope it happens.
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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Guys. Clowney on the left. JPP on the right.

And a revamped OL and Eli on offense with a new coaching staff.

JPP, Clowney and Eli. Oh my.

I'd have holes in my pants bc my boner would just shred through all of them.
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:14 AM    (permalink
Halsey
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Why would you be cheering for your team to tank for a DE? Look at the Texans. They have the best D-lineman in football. They're 2-3 right now. Meanwhile, the Broncos and Saints are undefeated, despite not having some of their best pass rushers from last year. People are so in love with Clowney that he's literally getting overrated.
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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Because the playoffs are not happening, and we already have a franchise qb. And this is a once in a decade prospect.

So yeah, why not? Should I root for 8-8 and football purgatory instead? What does that accomplish? Sometimes you have to get worse before you get better.
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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It can also be argued that continuing to lose breeds a culture of losing. If high draft pics always led to winning, why do some teams seem to pick high year after year. It's always a good time to start winning.
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
It can also be argued that continuing to lose breeds a culture of losing. If high draft pics always led to winning, why do some teams seem to pick high year after year. It's always a good time to start winning.
I'm not worried about that. This team clearly quit. They remind me of last year's Chiefs team. Way more talented than the record or product on the field. You get some fresh blood in here and a fresh start with a new coaching staff and they'll be right back in it.

And this league is about the pass game and pass defense. With Eli and a new OL, and JPP and Clowney coming off the edge we have a legit chance to make a run. Throw it and rush. That's what this league is all about.

Tanking for Clowney is our best long term move for the next 5 years. You can always get by with mediocre talent everywhere else. If you can throw it and rush the passer you have a chance. That's been our blueprint and it's worked very well for us. It will work again with some new blood.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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Why would you be cheering for your team to tank for a DE? Look at the Texans. They have the best D-lineman in football. They're 2-3 right now. Meanwhile, the Broncos and Saints are undefeated, despite not having some of their best pass rushers from last year. People are so in love with Clowney that he's literally getting overrated.
Because our QB is not Matt Schaub? And you don't tank for interior OL. Our needs are the interior OL, our pass rush, our LBs and our young secondary depth. Clowney would be huge for us, especially if we can sign a starting OL in FA so that we only need one more starter from one of our day two picks to complete the OL rebuild.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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Also the Giants have more problems than just being one pass rusher away.

Their OL is putrid and needs to be rebuilt. Their only good WR at this point is Victor Cruz, who is a slot receiver who only flourishes when he has outside WRs drawing attention.

Their DLine literaly lacks any difference maker as a pass rusher at this point. They have a lot of DLinemen that are good vs. the run game, but no elite pass rusher whatsoever. It remains to be seen whether Damontre Moore turns into that or not. I also firmly believe that Jason Pierre Paul is a one hit wonder who will never be an elite pass rusher in this league.

The only good player in their entire back seven is Prince Amukamara, basically.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Also the Giants have more problems than just being one pass rusher away.

Their OL is putrid and needs to be rebuilt. Their only good WR at this point is Victor Cruz, who is a slot receiver who only flourishes when he has outside WRs drawing attention.

Their DLine literaly lacks any difference maker as a pass rusher at this point. They have a lot of DLinemen that are good vs. the run game, but no elite pass rusher whatsoever. It remains to be seen whether Damontre Moore turns into that or not. I also firmly believe that Jason Pierre Paul is a one hit wonder who will never be an elite pass rusher in this league.

The only good player in their entire back seven is Prince Amukamara, basically.
I completely disagree about their WRs. Cruz is great like you said, Cruz has shown the ability to be a solid #1 when healthy, and Randle is one of the more promising young receivers in the league. They might not have the best receivers in the game but if you think they need help at that position than the majority of the NFL also needs help.

Also while JPP has obviously regressed I think he's too talented to write off at this point and just assume he can't get back to being a productive player.

The rest of what you said is obviously true though.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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I completely disagree about their WRs. Cruz is great like you said, Cruz has shown the ability to be a solid #1 when healthy, and Randle is one of the more promising young receivers in the league. They might not have the best receivers in the game but if you think they need help at that position than the majority of the NFL also needs help.

Also while JPP has obviously regressed I think he's too talented to write off at this point and just assume he can't get back to being a productive player.

The rest of what you said is obviously true though.
Cruz is NOT a #1. He is a great slot receiver. When he was going off in 2011, the reason he could do this is because Nicks was drawing #1 CB coverage on the outside and Cruz would be matched up against Nickel backs that he could abuse with his speed and quickness. As an outside WR, Cruz would be decent but not special.

Pierre Paul is NOT as talented as people thought. New York media hyped this guy up to the stratosphere after ONE good season in 2011 in which he basically played alongside elite pass rush from Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyiora (who played lights-out that year as a "last hurrah").
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Randle is one of the more promising young receivers in the league. .
Eh, I'm not sure I agree. The guy's reputation sound these parts has been a product of NY media hype and the fact that we have a dozen or so solid Giants posters here. Randle has caught about 46% of his targets this season, and throwing to him has led to 4 interceptions this year. His routes have been questionable and his hands are inconsistent.

I mean look at the difference between him and Stephen Hill. Stephen Hill has been better this year, despite both being 2nd year pros, former 2nd round picks, and in NY, but most people are of the opinion that Randle is better, but without a rationale as to why.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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lol AT you're awesome. You should go after Prince Amukamara next.
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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I meant to say that Nicks has shown the ability to be a #1 but wrote Cruz by mistake.

I agree that JPP benefited from playing with talented players on the d-line but you don't pick up 16.5 sacks without being talented. The talent level around him had dropped off the map and I believe that's had a large impact on his decreased production. I'm basically saying I wouldn't be surprised if he turned it around if they added some talent around him.
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Eh, I'm not sure I agree. The guy's reputation sound these parts has been a product of NY media hype and the fact that we have a dozen or so solid Giants posters here. Randle has caught about 46% of his targets this season, and throwing to him has led to 4 interceptions this year. His routes have been questionable and his hands are inconsistent.

I mean look at the difference between him and Stephen Hill. Stephen Hill has been better this year, despite both being 2nd year pros, former 2nd round picks, and in NY, but most people are of the opinion that Randle is better, but without a rationale as to why.
Randle has also had a number of big plays that where just erased, either by great plays by the DB on the ball to break it up, or by penalties by the OL. Randle's a legit talent and he's had some struggles with our option routes, but so does every WR that comes here, Nicks and Cruz used to make the wrong reads to, hell Nicks still sometimes does it. I'm perfectly happy with what we've seen out of Randle so far and while I'd rather keep all 3 so we have a big strength to regroup around next season, I'll be fine if Nicks ends up leaving and it's "jsut" Randle and Cruz.

What we need offensively is interior lineman. If we had even just a good interior OL the talent on offense would be set. Unfortunately all of Snee, Baas and Diehl are broken, old and washed up, Boothe is meh, Cordle and Brewer suck and Mosley's still a major work in progress. Pugh and Beatty are good, but that's all we've got along the OL right now which is why I want the team to go out and sign a starter in FA and spend a day two pick on an interior OL guy.

Defensively our pass rush is broken, JPP's still working his way back from his back injury, Moore is still being brought along slowly cause he got hurt this summer, Kiwi is just meh and Tuck is washed up. Add to that Fewell's absolutely hilariously bad blitzing and we get no pressure on the QB.

The DTs are pretty solid though, at least against the run as Big Hank looks like he'll replace Joseph wonderfully when Joseph leaves in FA, and the older retreads are, Jenkins and Patterson, are doing pretty well. In a perfect world we'd also have a young penetrator in the mix, but with everything wrong with this team that's low on the list.

Our LBs suck, Jacquain's the only one who's actually any good and Paysinger has been ok...ish...this season, btu the rest are pointless. That said we've won superbowls with just two good LBs and a few meh guys so if we can find one more good linebacker to pair with Williams I'll be content.

The Secondary has a weird situation, Prince is our #1 and he's really good well on his way to becoming the Corey Webster clone that he was hyped up to be when we got him. McBride and Hosley have looked pretty good on the inside when called upon so figure to battle for the nickel spot moving forward, but at the second outside spot we've got three vets, Webster classic, Thomas and Ross, and I trust none of them to stay healthy enough to relied on to be effective.

At Safety it's also curious, Rolle's good as an in the box safety who can cover the slot, but he's expensive and will need to take a paycut to stay. Will Hill has a ton of talent, but is a moron, if he could not get suspended again he'd lock up a safety spot, and then there's Stevie Brown, he of the infinity fortunate picks last season. Stevie actually looked really nice before his injury this year, so hopefully he can build off of that once he's healthy. I'd love a stud at safety, but on the otherhand we can make due with that trio if we have to.

So we absolutely need to address our interior OL and passrush, and could use a talented young outside corner, penetrating DT, LB and stud deep safety.
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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I meant to say that Nicks has shown the ability to be a #1 but wrote Cruz by mistake.

I agree that JPP benefited from playing with talented players on the d-line but you don't pick up 16.5 sacks without being talented. The talent level around him had dropped off the map and I believe that's had a large impact on his decreased production. I'm basically saying I wouldn't be surprised if he turned it around if they added some talent around him.
Sure talent helps but it's his back that's the real question, if it's all healed right, once he gets confident in it again and gets in shape he'll be monster again even if he's only got Moore and Kiwi in support. If it doesn't heal right or he never regains his comfort level with his back then even if we add Clowney and Moore turns into Osi 2.0 tomorrow, JPP won't dominate like he did.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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So we absolutely need to address our interior OL and passrush, and could use a talented young outside corner, penetrating DT, LB and stud deep safety.
That's alot to ask for. The Giants won't be good again for another 2+ years if that.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Cruz is NOT a #1. He is a great slot receiver. When he was going off in 2011, the reason he could do this is because Nicks was drawing #1 CB coverage on the outside and Cruz would be matched up against Nickel backs that he could abuse with his speed and quickness. As an outside WR, Cruz would be decent but not special.

Pierre Paul is NOT as talented as people thought. New York media hyped this guy up to the stratosphere after ONE good season in 2011 in which he basically played alongside elite pass rush from Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyiora (who played lights-out that year as a "last hurrah").

Woah woah woah!! You do know Justin Tuck was awful for 95% of the 2011 season right? He had arguably his worst season since becoming a starter. Osi also only played in 9 games that season also. Kiwi was playing LB and only amassed 3.5 sacks. JPP had a back injury last year, ever think that had something to do with his bad play? He did not play in any preseason games this year nor did he practice in training camp. He was the only defensive end to show up against the eagles this Sunday. Sure he did not get sacks but he had multiple QB pressures and was good against the run this week. He IS as talented as people thought but he has to put it all together, he has just as much TALENT as anyone in the league but he needs to be more consistent and needs to get better technique
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Enough of this Clowney to NYG talk, he's heading to Oakland
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Cruz is NOT a #1. He is a great slot receiver. When he was going off in 2011, the reason he could do this is because Nicks was drawing #1 CB coverage on the outside and Cruz would be matched up against Nickel backs that he could abuse with his speed and quickness. As an outside WR, Cruz would be decent but not special.

Pierre Paul is NOT as talented as people thought. New York media hyped this guy up to the stratosphere after ONE good season in 2011 in which he basically played alongside elite pass rush from Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyiora (who played lights-out that year as a "last hurrah").
Yeah, thank god Victor Cruz has Rueban Randle to draw away attention from opposing defenses while he lights them up.
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Old 10-08-2013, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Enough of this Clowney to NYG talk, he's heading to Oakland
Then maybe you guys should stop winning games sooner rather than later..
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Woah woah woah!! You do know Justin Tuck was awful for 95% of the 2011 season right? He had arguably his worst season since becoming a starter. Osi also only played in 9 games that season also. Kiwi was playing LB and only amassed 3.5 sacks. JPP had a back injury last year, ever think that had something to do with his bad play? He did not play in any preseason games this year nor did he practice in training camp. He was the only defensive end to show up against the eagles this Sunday. Sure he did not get sacks but he had multiple QB pressures and was good against the run this week. He IS as talented as people thought but he has to put it all together, he has just as much TALENT as anyone in the league but he needs to be more consistent and needs to get better technique
3 sub-par years or 1 above average year... I'll go with the larger sample size.

I guarantee that Pierre Paul will be seen as nothing more than a "one year wonder" 5+ years from now.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Enough of this Clowney to NYG talk, he's heading to Oakland
Clowney and Pryor on the same Raiders team = Al Davis fapping in heaven.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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3 sub-par years or 1 above average year... I'll go with the larger sample size.

I guarantee that Pierre Paul will be seen as nothing more than a "one year wonder" 5+ years from now.
Didn't you also guarantee that the Giants wouldn't win a playoff game a couple years ago and then they ended up winning the Super Bowl?
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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3 sub-par years or 1 above average year... I'll go with the larger sample size.

I guarantee that Pierre Paul will be seen as nothing more than a "one year wonder" 5+ years from now.
I did not know this season was over already to make it 3 sub-par years and "1 above average year"? So 16.5 Sacks and leading the NFL in tackles for loss with 26 is an above average year?? LOL.. I am just going to assume you don't watch the Giants or the NFL for that matter

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