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Old 05-14-2013, 11:21 AM    (permalink
JHL6719
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Default Weeden vs. Tannehill

Who will have the better season in 2013? They both performed about the same as rookies.

Dolphins added Mike Wallace, Dustin Keller, and right tackle Tyson Clabo in free agency Cleveland added Davone Bess, who should improve the WR unit's ability to catch simple passes.

Dolphins have an unproven stable of RB's full of mid round rookies and 2nd/3rd year backs, while Cleveland's Trent Richardson should be fully healthy and ready to improve on an impressive rookie campaign.

Cleveland faces Pittsburg, Baltimore, and Cincy twice... while the Dolphins face Buffalo, New England, and the Jets twice.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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I feel like this is a very silly question.

The answer should be Tannehill with little thought.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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Tannehill and Weeden performed "about the same" in the same way that Eli Manning and Ryan Fitzpatrick performed "about the same."
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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When I was watched Weeden, all I saw were dropped passes all over the place. He played much better than his numbers suggest.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Hmmm, one team is having their QB fight for the starting position over Jason Campbell, the other is excited about finally having their franchise QB. Let's not make this into a real question here.


Tannehill is going to be special, it was phenomal IMO how good he looked last year, so early, after being a WR a few years prior, with literally no offensive weapons. I don't think people realize just how much potential he has because I think he's got a lot of room for growth and at least they have given him play-makers on offense.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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When I was watched Weeden, all I saw were dropped passes all over the place. He played much better than his numbers suggest.

This is kinda the way I see it. Weeden was hurt a lot by WR drops. Greg Little's drop percentage was tops in the league. Not to mention, he faced a much more difficult schedule. Half the games Cleveland played last year were playoff teams... that's 8 games against playoff teams with no help.... including the superbowl champs (Ravens) twice.

Four of his INT's came in his first start where he was asked to throw it 35 times to receivers who can't catch. From there, he played the same as Tannehill.

Their numbers (attempts, passing yards, yards per attempt, TD's, INT's) are all very similar. I don't care who insists that they didn't have a similar rookie year.... they did.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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Tannehill and Weeden performed "about the same" in the same way that Eli Manning and Ryan Fitzpatrick performed "about the same."

How were they Eli Manning/Ryan Fitzpatrick different?
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Hmmm, one team is having their QB fight for the starting position over Jason Campbell, the other is excited about finally having their franchise QB. Let's not make this into a real question here.


Tannehill is going to be special, it was phenomal IMO how good he looked last year, so early, after being a WR a few years prior, with literally no offensive weapons. I don't think people realize just how much potential he has because I think he's got a lot of room for growth and at least they have given him play-makers on offense.

The Dolphins have finally been excited about a lot of QB's they thought were the answer. That's the point. I remember the owner comparing Chad Henne to Dan Marino.

Cleveland traded for Davone Bess, who Tannehill threw to last year. That's how desperate Cleveland was for a WR who can simply catch a football on a consistent basis. Doesn't matter what he does with it afterwards... just catch it for ****'s sake.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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Tannehill and Weeden performed "about the same" in the same way that Eli Manning and Ryan Fitzpatrick performed "about the same."
Except not really at all. They had similar stats, supporting casts, records, and put the same number of points on the board each week. The difference between the 2 of them is that one is 24 while the other is 29. Tannehill struggled plenty last year, the difference between them is that he is a young former top 3 pick while Weeden is an old late first rounder with a new front office.

Their play isn't really dictating either of them to be starters entirely on merit yet.

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Old 05-14-2013, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Also, Tannehill was at least comfortable with the offense and his coach. He had just run the same offense under the same coach 4 months before he was drafted by Miami.

Look at the number of times Weeden was asked to drop back as a rookie....starting from the moment he was issued a locker in Cleveland. Dude was asked to go out there and throw it 40-50 times a game to nobody.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Just as a fun fact, Aaron Rodgers had both more dropped passes and a higher percentage of dropped passes.

In fact, if you were to take all of the dropped passes in the NFL and turn them into receptions, Weeden would ranked 29th in completion percentage for the 2012 season.

Dropped passes tell a story, but that story is never "this quarterback wouldn't suck if it weren't for all of the dropped passes!"
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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I think Weeden establishes himself this season as Cleveland's answer at QB for at least 3-5 years, enough so that the franchise isn't looking to select a QB in the first round of the 2014 draft.

Weeden is going to get better. I know this goes against the popular narrative about him, that he's an over-aged, overmatched QB playing for a struggling franchise.
But I see a guy who can reach a Matt Schaub level of performance and maintain in into his mid 30s.

With the pieces the Browns added on D and hopefully Richardson able to carry some of the load on offense, all Weeden needs to do is be efficient.

Tannehill is physically in the same class as RG3, Wilson and Kaepernick. He's one of those guys who's the athletic prototype for the position. I think he looked better for the Phins than he would have in a different situation since his college HC Mike SHerman was hired as the Phins OC and the playbook is essentially the same as it was at A&M.

Longhornslegend is right, it's hard not to be excited about Weeden.
Last year was only his SECOND full season as a starting QB since HS. That position should be on lock for Miami for years to come.

I think Tannehill's ceiling is higher, but I believe Weeden will be better sooner in 2013.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Tannehill doesn't use his athleticism anywhere near the way Kaepernick, RG3, or even Wilson does. That's why he gets so many passes batted down at the LOS. That was one of his biggest issues last year. He'll never use his athletic ability the way they do.

Stick Weeden in Seattle and let him throw it only 393 times on a team that runs the football more than any other team in the league like the Seahawks... meanwhile, stick Wilson in Cleveland and let him throw it 50 times a game to nobody against that schedule... I guarantee the conversation would be different regarding these QB's.

That's why Tannehill and Weeden make for more of a fair comparison in my opinion. I just don't think anybody other than Luck would've done better than Weeden in Cleveland last year. Lame duck staff, no weapons, against all those playoff teams, chucking it that many times.... nah.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Just as a fun fact, Aaron Rodgers had both more dropped passes and a higher percentage of dropped passes.

In fact, if you were to take all of the dropped passes in the NFL and turn them into receptions, Weeden would ranked 29th in completion percentage for the 2012 season.

Dropped passes tell a story, but that story is never "this quarterback wouldn't suck if it weren't for all of the dropped passes!"

Maybe, but he's still 17th in the league in attempts as a rookie throwing to nobody. Keep in mind he didn't even play the last week of the season. Had he played, you could chalk up another 40+ attempts that would put him 8th or 9th in the league in attempts.

You're not going to complete a high percentage of passes in that scenario no matter who you are. Not throwing to those receivers against that schedule. Much less for a rookie.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Hmmm, one team is having their QB fight for the starting position over Jason Campbell, the other is excited about finally having their franchise QB. Let's not make this into a real question here.

Tannehill is going to be special, it was phenomal IMO how good he looked last year, so early, after being a WR a few years prior, with literally no offensive weapons. I don't think people realize just how much potential he has because I think he's got a lot of room for growth and at least they have given him play-makers on offense.
If Bess didn't miss 3 games, the Dolphins had a good chance for 2 1000yd WRs. And the Lions would certainly disagree there wasn't any other offensive talent there.

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Just as a fun fact, Aaron Rodgers had both more dropped passes and a higher percentage of dropped passes.

In fact, if you were to take all of the dropped passes in the NFL and turn them into receptions, Weeden would ranked 29th in completion percentage for the 2012 season.

Dropped passes tell a story, but that story is never "this quarterback wouldn't suck if it weren't for all of the dropped passes!"
Stats don't tell the whole story either of course. Statistically designated drops don't account for all balls that are catchable and should be caught. And the Packers' receiving core was still obviously leagues above the Browns'.


I think year 1 was clearly Tannehill. But the question of supporting cast is valid. Browns were void of reliable pass catchers and starting as many as 5 rookies on offense including a practice squad guy. Coach became a lame duck early on and was a terrible gameplanner.
But Weeden had issues with accuracy that I didn't see as much with Tannehill.

Year 2 gets interesting. Dolphins took a loss to their running game and still haven't locked up a legit LT. There's a lot more expectation with the offensive side signings (including overpaid, overrated Wallace) and how well RT played given his experience.

Browns got Norv. Signed a couple of reliable vet catchers in Bess and David Nelson. 2nd years of Josh Gordon, Richardson. And one of the best OL in the league.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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They were close as rookies, but Tannehill will be a much better QB in 2 years. Tannehill was a pretty raw prospect with some very nice tools. Weeden was sold as a more polished QB who should be able to contribute earlier.

Even if Weeden develops into a Matt Schaub type QB in a few years, he will already be in his early/mid thirtys. Its just a small window to try to win with. Weeden is older than Aaron Rodgers as a rookie.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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I think that Weeden will improve this year and I think he has the skills to be the Browns QB for the next few years. But I think that Tannehill is the more talented player and in a much better position to succeed. If he can improve at throwing from the pocket he has the potential to become really special. He already is really accurate when on the run or when rolling out, and he did a great job on some of the called runs that the Dolphins started using in their offense at the end of the season. I really look forward to watching him with all of his new weapons this season.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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If Bess didn't miss 3 games, the Dolphins had a good chance for 2 1000yd WRs. .
Cool story. Now what what the point again? That becaue the Dolphins "almost" had two 1000 yard WR's that means they had weapons? Enlighten me.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Cool story. Now what what the point again? That becaue the Dolphins "almost" had two 1000 yard WR's that means they had weapons? Enlighten me.
Clearly more than the Browns and a good ways from, "literally no offensive weapons".
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Weeden had some awful throws and some drops. Greg Little gets a lot of flack for drops when he honestly fixed the issue in the second half of the season. On the other hand, Weeden had some excellent throws and made some good decisions on dump offs (at the right time, after he went through progressions)

It was not his fault that Shurmur was easily the worst play caller in the league in probably the past ten years.

Weeden will get better for sure. Gordon, Little, Bess, and Benjamin is a solid core with different defining skill-sets.
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:01 PM    (permalink
LonghornsLegend
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Originally Posted by Brown Leader View Post
Clearly more than the Browns and a good ways from, "literally no offensive weapons".
Oh please. Josh Gordon is miles and miles better then anyone the Dolphins had last year so lets stop that argument. He's a 1st round talent at WR, had been out of football for nearly a year and almost cracked 1000 yards(since the word 'almost' carries so much weight here). He's one of the most talented young WR's in the league right now in general.


I'm not sure what your standards are, but just because a few guys "almost" get 1000 yards that doesn't mean you have offensive weapons. That's incredibly bad rationale.
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Tannehill is about to explode. He's going to get comfortable and he has a ton more weapons now. He was one of the better QBs at downfield passes last year and having Wallace willl really help him further utilize that skill.


I do think its possible that Weeden could break out under Turner too though. He has a good arm, is generally underrated as a talent and has some nice weapons too.
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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I think both are NFL starting caliber QB's.

If I had to choose one today to roll with, I'd go with Tannehill because he has the stronger arm, can move around the pocket better, and obviously the age factor.

Overall, both did some really good things last year with limited offensive weapons and both had some real stinkers out there as well.

If I had to choose, I'd go Tannehill but I'm still a fan of Weeden as well.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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Doesn't matter...the Browns will trade up for Bridgewater next year anyways.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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Weeden VS Ponder would have made a better thread.
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