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View Poll Results: Who goes further this season from the NFC West?
San Francisco 58 45.31%
Seattle 70 54.69%
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-12-2013, 08:39 AM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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Problem is that the 49ers were doing the same, on offense and defense. The refs weren't focused on them though, they were to busy trying to make a point to Seattle and let the Niners get away with the same stuff.
I saw one play on Boone that was a blatant hold and wasn't called but when you get into the O-Line, we can go back forth on missed calls all game long.

But as far as DBs, its night and day. Its no secret the tactics Hawks DBs use. Its been well documented around the league. They teach it well and credit to them, if the league isn't going to enforce the rules, keep doing it until they make you adjust. But that were just as many PI's against your DBs that were not called that were just as egregious...

http://i.imgur.com/7A05Ji8.jpg

Now tell me how that isn't pass interference? For all the complaints about the 3 calls that went against you, there were a handful more that should have been made.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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The seahawks do it on D, the Niners do it on offense. There was a play where Boldin grabbed Lane, spun him all the way around, threw him to the ground and then shoved his helmet into the turf. There were multiple holds on Gore's game sealing run and Kaepernicks run on 3rd and 7. Everybody gets up in arms about the way Seattle plays D, but nobody cares about the way San Fran plays offense.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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where have i supported anything goodell has done?

but please, master of tackling. let me know how, specifically, all 5'10", 200lbs of tj ward was, from that angle, supposed to not only hit the 6'6", 265lb, moving-at-full-speed rob gronkowski, but to actually complete the tackle without getting steam rolled. when you realize what an idiotic thing that was to suggest or believe, maybe you can start to think about why kids, in pop warner, are taught to go low when they make tackles. or why ward might've thought that was the only way to bring gronkowski down.

but then, you don't actually know anything about football or tackling. *shrug*
I think we were all taught it, go low vs guys bigger than you. For me that meant literally everyone.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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exactly. you hit the guy in the legs to take him down. putting your facemask on a guy's numbers is ridiculous when he's basically 25% bigger than you are. that's a great way to get knocked out.
To be fair, we were taught to hit the thighs, or at least aim for the thighs/lower ab area. But when you're hitting a moving target, **** happens. You can't defy the laws of physics but the NFL is asking them to do that.

I feel for DBs, they literally get fined for circumstance. Like if I aim low, but he curls and he hits ME with his head bc he curled, how is that my fault? Why am I being fined?

I think that's what all DBs are saying and they absolutely have a right to complain.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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I think it will be ridiculous if the NFL makes that type of tackle illegal. It's hard enough as a defender as it is. The one thing they had to intimidate players who are generally bigger than them was to lay them out.

I understand why the head shots were made illegal but at the end of the day, if you are worried about being injured don't play football.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love watching Gronk carry defenders for that extra 10 yards but at some stage those DBs have to find a way to get him to the ground without him gaining extra yards.

You go low, you don't necessarily aim for the knee but sometimes **** happens. It's the same as a blind side hit on a QB. You may break his ribs, you may not necessarily set out to break his ribs but **** happens sometimes.

The guys are more than adequately compensated for putting their bodies on the line. it's unfortunate that bad injuries happen but they can happen to anyone at any stage.

Take away defenders going low and you may as well not have a defense on the field.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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It's a touchy subject with no easy solution.

For the point that they are well compensated, that's not necessarily true. The guys on the back end of the roster that make 300K but get fined 50K during the year and retire with severe brain trauma and medical bills through the roof aren't compensated well enough. And consider the average career is about 3 years, plus that the majority of NFL players are in the lower salary range, I don't know if we can accurately say "well, you make a lot so you'll be alright when you retire".

Having that said, the issue itself is something that is incredibly difficult to fix. Which is why the NFL was so afraid of all this information coming out to begin with. If there was a simple solution it would have been taken care of already.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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The Seahawks would have to lose 2 out of the next 3 which include only one road game. Which means the Seahawks would be 1-3 to close out the season. That isn't going to happen against the Giants, Cardinals, and Rams. Regardless if the 49ers go 3-0.
1-2.

If they lose to the Giants which is absolutely possible, that puts a lot of pressure on them. Arizona isn't bad.

It's unlikely, but possible. I hate the 10am start in possibly messy conditions (at least annoying winds, maybe a little snow). And the Giants are due for a decent performance. And the line is only 7. That means to me the powers that be believe it will be a one score game on the road. That's scary. No KJ Wright too.

Even if you're right and I'm just being paranoid, there's going to be a lot more sweating than I realized there would be after the NO massacre.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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I saw one play on Boone that was a blatant hold and wasn't called but when you get into the O-Line, we can go back forth on missed calls all game long.

But as far as DBs, its night and day. Its no secret the tactics Hawks DBs use. Its been well documented around the league. They teach it well and credit to them, if the league isn't going to enforce the rules, keep doing it until they make you adjust. But that were just as many PI's against your DBs that were not called that were just as egregious...

http://i.imgur.com/7A05Ji8.jpg

Now tell me how that isn't pass interference? For all the complaints about the 3 calls that went against you, there were a handful more that should have been made.
For all the flags each way, I really didn't disagree with any call. Maybe one or two but none that stood out at me. Or maybe there was a BS taunting... yeah there was. That was a horrible call.

But the call you're referencing was completely understandable. That still image has captured the EXACT moment Maxwell made contact with the receiver, and milliseconds later the ball arrived and hit Maxwell's hand. By letter of the rule, yes, it's a blown call because he did arrive BEFORE the ball did. However, watching that play live it definitely looked like he made the play with correct timing. Those types of plays are impossible to call PI on unless the defender gets there CLEARLY early. In that still image it looks like that, but we both know in real time it did not look like he was there clearly early.

RE: Secondary holding/contact
The Seahawks are coached up so well that they do it subtly. An instant replay in slow motion reveals contact, but in real time it probably looks more annoying than influential to the officials. And all DBs do it, and every opponent tells the officials to watch out for the Seahawks doing it. It is what it is. If your DBs aren't skilled enough to hand-fight and make subtle contact, or your coaches don't teach it well, then that's on your team.
And we can't have it both ways. "THE GAME IS GEARED TOWARDS OFFENSE IT'S SO UNFAIRRRR - YOU CANT EVEN TOUCH THE RECEIVERS!!!!!" "EXCEPT THE SEAHAWKS - THEY CAN! THE OFFICIALS NEED TO STEP IN HERE AND HELP OPPOSING OFFENSESSSSSSS!!" It's silly. Bring up a specific instance rather than just making generalizations. The Hawks DBs get called for flags all the time anyway. I'd rather they played physical and get flagged sometiems than get beat all the time and not have offenses annoyed and have the mental edge. It's amazing that they play so much one safety and barely ever get beat. Sherman's having an amazing season. He's made so many one-on-one PBUs on 9s it's incredible.

RE: Tackling
Of the 20+ torn ACLs this year, how many were torn due to a hit at the knees like Gronks? Aren't most of them a result of awkward bending, cutting, or planting the leg while in motion?
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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1-2.

If they lose to the Giants which is absolutely possible, that puts a lot of pressure on them. Arizona isn't bad.

It's unlikely, but possible. I hate the 10am start in possibly messy conditions (at least annoying winds, maybe a little snow). And the Giants are due for a decent performance. And the line is only 7. That means to me the powers that be believe it will be a one score game on the road. That's scary. No KJ Wright too.

Even if you're right and I'm just being paranoid, there's going to be a lot more sweating than I realized there would be after the NO massacre.
1-3. I'm including the loss to SF.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Problem is that the 49ers were doing the same, on offense and defense. The refs weren't focused on them though, they were to busy trying to make a point to Seattle and let the Niners get away with the same stuff.
Probably shouldn't even go there as a Seahawk fan. They are a team that plays on the edge and accepts their 9 penalties a game as part of their strategy. They had 9 against the Niners.

I wouldn't take anything that comes out of Sherman's mouth as meaninful. He would be better served letting his play do the talking.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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1-2.

If they lose to the Giants which is absolutely possible, that puts a lot of pressure on them. Arizona isn't bad.

It's unlikely, but possible. I hate the 10am start in possibly messy conditions (at least annoying winds, maybe a little snow). And the Giants are due for a decent performance. And the line is only 7. That means to me the powers that be believe it will be a one score game on the road. That's scary. No KJ Wright too.

Even if you're right and I'm just being paranoid, there's going to be a lot more sweating than I realized there would be after the NO massacre.
If you lose and the 49ers win, then things get interesting. Thats if SF has the tiebreaker...no way Seattle loses out.

Still...do you really see Seattle going 0-2 to Arizona and St. Louis, at home, to finish out the season? I don't see that happening.

SEA finishes at 13-3. SF finishes at 12-4. Thats my guess.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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But the call you're referencing was completely understandable. That still image has captured the EXACT moment Maxwell made contact with the receiver, and milliseconds later the ball arrived and hit Maxwell's hand. By letter of the rule, yes, it's a blown call because he did arrive BEFORE the ball did. However, watching that play live it definitely looked like he made the play with correct timing. Those types of plays are impossible to call PI on unless the defender gets there CLEARLY early. In that still image it looks like that, but we both know in real time it did not look like he was there clearly early.
Looks like clear PI to me. Maxwell just didn't get his head around to make a play on the ball. The officials missed that one.

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Old 12-12-2013, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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^Completely understandable that the official saw simultaneous contact from the ball and the corner when you look at that gif. Especially considering his angle. You don't have to turn your head. People always say that but that's not the rule. You are allowed to play the pocket without turning your head. It's a common defensive technique.

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If you lose and the 49ers win, then things get interesting. Thats if SF has the tiebreaker...no way Seattle loses out.

Still...do you really see Seattle going 0-2 to Arizona and St. Louis, at home, to finish out the season? I don't see that happening.

SEA finishes at 13-3. SF finishes at 12-4. Thats my guess.
I don't see that happening, no. But I could absolutely see them losing in a tough spot at NYG, then losing one of the home games and finishing 1-2.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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^Completely understandable that the official saw simultaneous contact from the ball and the corner when you look at that gif. Especially considering his angle. You don't have to turn your head. People always say that but that's not the rule. You are allowed to play the pocket without turning your head. It's a common defensive technique.
You don't have to turn your head if there isn't contact down the field, which there clearly was before Crabtree had a chance to catch the ball. It doesn't matter what the official believed he saw. He's allowed to be wrong. It was a blown pass interference call.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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You don't have to turn your head if there isn't contact down the field, which there clearly was before Crabtree had a chance to catch the ball. It doesn't matter what the official believed he saw. He's allowed to be wrong. It was a blown pass interference call.
It was by strict interpretation of early contact. But it wasn't "clear" or one that I'd even bring up if I had gripes with calls. It's completely understandable why it wasn't called. The gif proves that it's a very close call. It definitely doesn't look like clear PI in real time.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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In no way is that a "clear" PI...Stop being a homer, Ness.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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In no way is that a "clear" PI...Stop being a homer, Ness.
Troy Aikman and Joe Buck were saying the same thing during the telecast. I don't think they are secretly rooting for SF.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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It was "clear PI" in the slow mo replay. At full speed it was 50/50. I could see how they let it go.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
It was by strict interpretation of early contact. But it wasn't "clear" or one that I'd even bring up if I had gripes with calls. It's completely understandable why it wasn't called. The gif proves that it's a very close call. It definitely doesn't look like clear PI in real time.
Seems pretty clear. The officials simply missed it.

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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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It was "clear PI" in the slow mo replay. At full speed it was 50/50. I could see how they let it go.
Exactly.

Unfortunately the officials don't have access to the super slow mo gif that shows Maxwell making contact over a full second before the ball gets there. Which is in no way an accurate representation of the way the official had to judge the play or the reality of how time works.

There have probably been over 1000 worse mistakes made this year by officials.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Seems pretty clear. The officials simply missed it.

Yeah, that was the slo mo replay I was talking about. And the "clear" part was evident there.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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Unfortunately the game isn't played in slow-motion...
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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Also the official is standing by the pylon and can't even see Maxwell because his view is blocked by Crabtree. Unfortunately these guys don't have x-ray vision.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, that was the slo mo replay I was talking about. And the "clear" part was evident there.
Exactly. It was clear. The officials just didn't see it. At the same time that doesn't make it "not clear" just because it wasn't seen correctly by an official.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. It was clear. The officials just didn't see it. At the same time that doesn't make it "not clear" just because it wasn't seen correctly by an official.
Clear to you, because you have the benefit of seeing it in 50 different angles and in slow motion. That isn't clear to the official. At all. If you're moaning about that, you'll be moaning about 90% of calls made in a game.
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