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View Poll Results: Who goes further this season from the NFC West?
San Francisco 58 45.31%
Seattle 70 54.69%
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-17-2013, 12:40 PM    (permalink
Ness
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If you were really serious about that, about a guy who's started about 2/3rd of ONE NFL season, tell me what makes you think he's going to go to the Hall of Fame?

His arm is strong, but he's not a great passer. What makes him, as we all know, exciting and lethal are those fast wheels.

But Michael Vick had those wheels too.... QB's like that don't last long, running, at least.

The specialness of him is that, the legs. No way will he be able to do that long enough to get to the HOF.

Now if you think his passing is also HOF-worthy, well that's a different story, but I don't think many would agree with that.
If he had that arm, to go with those legs, he would have been a #1 pick for sure, and a Can't Miss Superstar.

His first ACL tear or broken leg will slow him down. Just not sure when that will happen, but the more he takes off and runs, the sooner it will be most likely. Like Daunte Culpepper on a run.
Went from stud, to dud, with that tackle.
Culpepper actually started sucking before he hurt his knee during the 2005 season. The loss of his offensive coordinator, Randy Moss, and Matt Birk seemed to hurt him. That and for some weird reason he just started sucking as a passer. Then he hurt his knee in the middle of the season.

And like another poster just stated, Kaepernick's running ability isn't the only thing that makes him an effective quarterback. He was one of the better passers in the league last year. Especially on the long ball.
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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I'm very interested in seeing Kaep this year. NYG of the Giants forum did some in depth analysis of the 49ers scheme and was giving it rave reviews. It's not a pure read option, it's more of a power scheme if I understand it correctly.

And the concepts are difficult to "figure out" as so many DCs are saying this offseason. It's not a simple read option.

And Kaep fits it perfectly. He's also a pretty decent drop back passer. He'll develop in that role and get even better.

My only major concern with Kaep is his windup. I just think eventually DBs will key in on his throwing patterns and start breaking on routes.
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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I'm very interested in seeing Kaep this year. NYG of the Giants forum did some in depth analysis of the 49ers scheme and was giving it rave reviews. It's not a pure read option, it's more of a power scheme if I understand it correctly.

And the concepts are difficult to "figure out" as so many DCs are saying this offseason. It's not a simple read option.

And Kaep fits it perfectly. He's also a pretty decent drop back passer. He'll develop in that role and get even better.

My only major concern with Kaep is his windup. I just think eventually DBs will key in on his throwing patterns and start breaking on routes.
The zone read/read option is simply a formation in the 49ers offense, not a staple of it. Of course don't tell the mainstream media that. They've already decided that Kaepernick = runner first.
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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The zone read/read option is simply a formation in the 49ers offense, not a staple of it. Of course don't tell the mainstream media that. They've already decided that Kaepernick = runner first.
Even the running concepts aren't zone read if I understand it correctly. It's more power O. And the keepers are completely different too.

NYG would be a much better source than me on this topic, he did an in depth breakdown of the 49ers offense. Basically long story short, calling it read option is an incredibly lazy and incorrect assessment of what the 49ers do.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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I'm very interested in seeing Kaep this year. NYG of the Giants forum did some in depth analysis of the 49ers scheme and was giving it rave reviews. It's not a pure read option, it's more of a power scheme if I understand it correctly.

And the concepts are difficult to "figure out" as so many DCs are saying this offseason. It's not a simple read option.

And Kaep fits it perfectly. He's also a pretty decent drop back passer. He'll develop in that role and get even better.

My only major concern with Kaep is his windup. I just think eventually DBs will key in on his throwing patterns and start breaking on routes.

This is my biggest concern as well, afterall, in most of his "highlights" he's throwing to receivers that are pretty wide open by NFL standards. He puts it where it needs to go, but the receiver is usually wide open. The 9ers do a great job with the route tree creating this, and his improvisation only helps with creating open receivers.

The problem with NFL defenses is that they still don't think Kaepernick is going to keep the ball. Penetration is key to stopping these plays, and hitting the QB is vital. From watching Bill Snyder at Kansas State for years and watching old school Nebraska, I watched a lot of the option offenses before it was the read option and even played against many teams that did so. The key is that the first person is always supposed to hit the QB, that forces the pitch and putsh its on the QB every time they run it.

I've seen the 9ers run the QB option, although out of the shotgun (I am not talking about the read-option) and it's simply a mistake in football fundamentals. In the NFL the defender almost always tries to split the QB and the pitchman (usually RB) and that's just not going to work. Watching some film and this is exactly the case when Kaep had a big run against the Jets, Pace tried to split the offensive players (Kaep and Walker), and Kaep beat him with his speed inside and picked up around 15 yards (yard to tell from angle on film). If properly defended, it likely would have been less yardage and a hit on the QB.

It's also amazing how much he can get by with the small stutter step (or "bounce" as my coaches called it), where you stutter inside and bounce it outside.

All of these things should be taught by the defensive coaches in his 2nd season, of course I've been saying tackling should be taught for years and it hasn't!

I'm not a Kaep hater, I really like him and like his style of play. But it's going to take more than a season for me to praise him as the next best thing. He's going to have to adapt, just as defenses are going to adapt towards him.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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The thing with both Kaepernick and Russell Wilson and maybe RGIII is, even when you do take away the read option, all 3, but mostly the first 2 are good enough that they don't need the read option to be deadly qbs.

They both can run a traditional offense and just scramble when they need to.

RGIII hasn't shown that yet, he was the most reliant on the read option of the 3 qbs we're talking about, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't develop into a stud qb in traditional sets.

So it's not just about stopping the option with these guys. That's only a wrinkle.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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We need 15 more voters to hit 100 and give us an even percentage.
Where the newbies at?
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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The 49ers also do more shifting than any team in the league. And they don't have sight adjustments midplay.

That can mean a couple things:

1) Kaep had a package when Smith was QB and knew likely only that package very well. When he took the job, they may have done a little less in terms of shifts. I expect them to give him the full playbook this training camp. More information might mean some transitioning and could impact the way they call plays and how he performs.

2) Because they have no sight adjustments they either "let it roll" or switch the play and the play is the play. He is going to have be as good as Alex Smith - who was masterful - at recognizing what the defense is in AND making the right adjustment or standing pat and letting it roll.

As THE GUY, from TC to preseason to the offensive installation during the week, Alex Smith was terrific. He understood the formation shifts and everything pre-snap and went out and executed. He was a seasoned vet who had seen everything, AND he had an advantage because he knew what teams were trying to do to rattle him based on his past failures and awesome coaching staff.

Now, that guy is Kaep. He might do just as well as the maestro of a very complicated orchestra. He might not.

I personally think eliminating sight adjustments makes it easier on the entire offense. However, I think it makes it easier for DCs to guess right and stifle plays - which is why I believe the Niners struggle when trailing and get blown out sometimes. They lose their edge because teams know they have to throw it a little more and can't control the clock. For two examples, the Giants game and the Seahawks game last year.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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The Niners might have zone plays in the playbook, but they are a power blocking team primarily (which means man blocking with pulling guards, traps, etc.).

Their read option out of the pistol wasn't a zone read. It was a read option with power blocking principles. Not sure if they used the "regular" ZR but I'm sure they did.

The read option is what the wild cat wanted to be. Using all 11 players in the numbers game that is run-blocking. The problem it will always cost is that the 11th guy involved, the QB, might get hit. Which is why it will always be a wrinkle concept.

The key to beating is yes, what everyone says - to understand assignments and obviously execute, be aggressive and decisive and disciplined, bla bla bla.

But in order to account for the numbers advantage, the key at the NFL level is actually your corners.

You want to have 8 in the box, ESPECIALLY against the Niners attack because they use lead blockers in their option game as well. So then you have to leave your corners on an island on the outside and your safety in the middle.

This is WHY the best team to mess with them is Seattle. And yes, Sherman and Browner are reasons why, but to speak to the argument this board has had, ET is the key. And it's not about the plays he makes or the tackles he sometimes misses - it's about trusting his ability to take away the deep middle and more importantly for the corners - his elite range. His instincts as deep middle player + his range (his combine numbers explain this) is a combination unmatched in the league.

This brings me back to the upcoming year. On the outside against 3 deep - whether it's a true M2M or a C3 or a C3 press hybrid - it doesn't matter really - the best chance they have to attack Seattle's D is by winning on the outside. And that's NO LONGER Crabtree. That's Jenkins/Patton/Boldin. And I know it's hard to believe this - but Boldin is not exactly an ideal outside 1v1 matchup.

Now, they can surely block 8 men in the box with near perfect execution AND they can take advantage of Seattle's underneath coverage, perhaps with a good TE in Davis. Bruce Irvin or Malcom Smith potentially in coverage would be a good place to start.

But a defense will always have a weakness - you can't align yourself to stop everything - and against Seattle, and probably a lot of teams the Niners face - that will be on the outside, WRs vs. CBs.

Also, Kaep didn't seem to love Davis last year - when he saw 1v1 on the outside he trusted and loved Crabs most of the time - and Crabs was awesome.

The Rams also have the personnel to trust their corners on the outside. There's a lot of pressure on those guys but Jenkins and Finnegan are as good a duo as there is.

What's scary about Crabtree is that EVERY team is going to do this against the Niners running game. Crabtree caught so many passes because Kaep was brilliant in recognizing it and Crabs is a great route runner (and of course Roman calling plays). Losing him will assuredly change things and I can't see how it won't hurt at least a little. He was one of the keys last year for this very reason.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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And just from a very general gameplanning standpoint, you're playing the Niners:

- Have to be tough, gap integrity, leverage, tackling. They can't take out chunks on first down.

- Make their receivers beat us. We're trusting our corners.

- Confuse him presnap on third down. Probably zone with some rotating safeties so we can see him. Bluff blitz and then blitzes without allowing him to break contain.

Seattle's RO is just so much tougher to stop:

1) Wilson will exploit Miller against your safeties and backers. He started to do it will brilliance down the stretch, especially Atlanta. Now add Harvin to that. A LB, S, or NB will be matched up on him. ??????? But also, LB, S, or NB - you have contain responsibility against the run. Good luck.

2) If they run that read option, play quarters and contain it or play single high with 8 in and... make Rice/Tate/Harvin beat us outside? Um. OK I guess. It's just so hard to see it coming.

The Niners have a better OL but Seattle's personnel is a matchup nightmare. I know nobody likes Tate/Rice, but they really aren't bad players at all and can win outside. And then the infuriating thing for both of these teams is that the QBs can improvise and a perfectly defended 3rd down can turn into a 20 yard gain. I like Wilson as someone who buys time and looks downfield as a more difficult-to-prepare-for player (like Ben) rather than Kaep who if you're playing zone against, you just have to locate him and easier-said-than-done TACKLE him once he crosses the line (on 3rd-and-longs). Yes, you're getting depth in your zone but at least you can see him.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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I see one of them going 12-4, the other 11-5.
Solid teams.

Both will go 3-1 against the Rams/Cardinals.

The difference will be the non-divisional opponents.
Has anyone here broken down the differences in their 10 non-divisional matchups yet?
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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I see one of them going 12-4, the other 11-5.
Solid teams.

Both will go 3-1 against the Rams/Cardinals.

The difference will be the non-divisional opponents.
Has anyone here broken down the differences in their 10 non-divisional matchups yet?
I think these teams transcend matchups. They're arguably the two best teams in the league. They can both beat anyone.

Seattle has a bunch of tough road games. But if they execute like they did down the stretch last year, they can win every single game. Their home slate is pretty easy - they should go 8-0 or 7-1.

Home:
Division
NO
TB
MIN
TEN
JAC

Road:
@ Division
@ CAR - Favored
@ HOU - Probably a dog of less than 3, maybe 3.
@ IND - Probably favored
@ ATL - Probably same as last year, less than 3.
@ NYG - Who knows about the Giants, probably less than 3 though

Those are tough, but again, if you are playing well it doesn't really matter who you play. The same can be said for games they should win.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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I think these teams transcend matchups. They're arguably the two best teams in the league. They can both beat anyone.

Seattle has a bunch of tough road games. But if they execute like they did down the stretch last year, they can win every single game. Their home slate is pretty easy - they should go 8-0 or 7-1.

Home:
NO

Road:
@ CAR - Favored
@ HOU - Probably a dog of less than 3, maybe 3.
@ IND - Probably favored
@ ATL - Probably same as last year, less than 3.
@ NYG - Who knows about the Giants, probably less than 3 though.
They will split against SF.
Probably go 3-1 vs Arizona/St Louis.
Probably 3-3 vs those pretty tough 6 opponents. I see them losing at Hou, Atl, NYG....

That is a hard road schedule.
Saints will be eager to get back to the scene of the BeastMode.
But these Hawks are a lot better than those Hawks who beat them.
Seattle goes 8-0 at home, probably 4-4 on the road.
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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I think these teams transcend matchups. They're arguably the two best teams in the league. They can both beat anyone.

Seattle has a bunch of tough road games. But if they execute like they did down the stretch last year, they can win every single game. Their home slate is pretty easy - they should go 8-0 or 7-1.

Home:
Division
NO
TB
MIN
TEN
JAC

Road:
@ Division
@ CAR - Favored
@ HOU - Probably a dog of less than 3, maybe 3.
@ IND - Probably favored
@ ATL - Probably same as last year, less than 3.
@ NYG - Who knows about the Giants, probably less than 3 though

Those are tough, but again, if you are playing well it doesn't really matter who you play. The same can be said for games they should win.
see this is the reason I dont like their schedule. They have all the hard games on the road. Seaatle has the biggest homefield advantage in the league, but theyre not a great road team. I would predict they go 1-4 in in those games, and then I think outta the titans, saints, Vikings and Bucs, 1 team good chance steals a win. And I can easily see the Seahawks splitting or going 4-2 in their division. What does that leave you? probably 8 or 9 wins. Thats where I see this season going for Seattle. Back down to earth this year and maybe back with a vengeance in 2014.

The 49ers also have a tough schedule, and for that reason after going through their schedule, I projected them at just 11-5, even though I have them rated as the 2nd best team in the league. Their schedule is tough, but I dont think its as bad as Seattle.

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Old 07-17-2013, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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If you were really serious about that, about a guy who's started about 2/3rd of ONE NFL season, tell me what makes you think he's going to go to the Hall of Fame?

His arm is strong, but he's not a great passer. What makes him, as we all know, exciting and lethal are those fast wheels.

But Michael Vick had those wheels too.... QB's like that don't last long, running, at least.

The specialness of him is that, the legs. No way will he be able to do that long enough to get to the HOF.

Now if you think his passing is also HOF-worthy, well that's a different story, but I don't think many would agree with that.
If he had that arm, to go with those legs, he would have been a #1 pick for sure, and a Can't Miss Superstar.

His first ACL tear or broken leg will slow him down. Just not sure when that will happen, but the more he takes off and runs, the sooner it will be most likely. Like Daunte Culpepper on a run.
Went from stud, to dud, with that tackle.
Yes, I think people are so mesmerized with his running ability, they are missing just how good of a passer he really is. First off, just talking about the runner part, this guy is special. Maybe the most gifted running quarterback ever. Obviously there is Michael Vick, Cam Newton and Robert Griffin. Vick and Griffin are both built too slightly and not built to take the beating that goes with being a running quarterback. Their elusiveness is incredible, but guys like that (steve young being another great example) always seem destined for careers marred by injury. Cam and Kaepernick are of the Big Ben mold, strong and mobile, except they are on a completely different level athletically than Ben of course. But compare Cam and Kaepernick in terms of speed and I dont think its close. When he gets out and striding he looks like a godamn gazzelle, this guy can outrun DBs.

But on to him as a passer. Fist off, his arm strength is phenomenal - hes up there with the strongest in the league. Out of current QBs, I think his arm strength and style best compares to Roethlisberger and Stafford. But he is way more accurate than people think. This is a guy who knows how to put a ball on a spot. Ive seen him make some incredible aaron rodgers-status throws. And I think his football IQ is way higher than people give him credit for. He made very few mistakes in an offense that was much more complicated than people realized.

It takes a special kind of player to take a starting job from a man who was a former no. 1 overall pick, led the team to 13-3 seed and NFC championship game the year before, and was posting a QB rating over 100 when he got replaced. Alex Smith was healthy and ready to play within a couple weeks, and Harbaugh stuck with Kap because he knew he had something special.

I was wondering how Kap would handle the playoffs, and he wowed me. He showed mental toughness, he showed he wasnt at all scared of the moment, he embraced it. I was already a huge believer, but he exceeded even my expectations.


I think about what makes a legendary player. Its a combination of things.

1) Immense Talent - check
2) Extraordinary drive and determination to be great . You live to be the best of all time. Intensely competitive. I believe Kap has this mentality.
3) Clutch factor. Cant really define it, but some guys just have it. After the playoffs, Im convinced he does
4) The right situation. And this may be the most important. And I believe Kaepernick is in the perfect situation. Harbaugh is a great QB guru who handpicked Kaepernick and will build an offense around. The great offensive mind of Greg Roman is also important. He may forego head coaching gigs elsewhere to be a part of something special in SF. Young offensive line with long term contracts that is best in the league right now. Good receivers, great defense that is also full of young players, great overall team. He will have the opportunity to win multiple Super Bowls


p.s. congrats to colin on his ESPY for best breakthrough athlete

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Old 07-17-2013, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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see this is the reason I dont like their schedule. They have all the hard games on the road. Seaatle has the biggest homefield advantage in the league, but theyre not a great road team. I would predict they go 1-4 in in those games, and then I think outta the titans, saints, Vikings and Bucs, 1 team good chance steals a win. And I can easily see the Seahawks splitting or going 4-2 in their division. What does that leave you? probably 8 or 9 wins. Thats where I see this season going for Seattle. Back down to earth this year and maybe back with a vengeance in 2014.

The 49ers also have a tough schedule, and for that reason after going through their schedule, I projected them at just 11-5, even though I have them rated as the 2nd best team in the league. Their schedule is tough, but I dont think its as bad as Seattle.
I've already said the same thing. They do have their difficult games on the road (difficult now - but who knows then). That's true.

They're better on the road than people realize. Every loss was by a TD or less and some of them by one play. Their biggest win was on the road (Chicago), and they won a road playoff game and stormed back in another. The Hasselbeck teams used to be really shaky on the road but Wilson looked comfortable everywhere. Many of their road losses came early in the season before Wilson turned the corner (which was the Chicago game).

And my whole point, what I've been saying, and what you disagree with, is that IF THEY PLAY LIKE THEY DID FOR THE SECOND HALF OF 2012, IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER WHO THEY PLAY OR WHERE. That's how good they were. A more accurate way to judge teams than W/L is point differential. They were never out of a game. Every loss was by a TD or less. Continuing that way and they should have no problem winning 12 games regardless of the schedule.

And it's stupid to do what you did. They'll go 1-4 against these teams and then 3-3 in the division and someone's gonna steal a game. BAM. 8 or 9 wins! It's very stupid.

What is that? It's just blind guessing. There's no analysis whatsoever. It's completely pointless.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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This rivalry could get a lot more interesting and even if Harvin ends up having surgery and missing the first meeting between the two teams.

Cant wait for the regular season to start already.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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The thing with both Kaepernick and Russell Wilson and maybe RGIII is, even when you do take away the read option, all 3, but mostly the first 2 are good enough that they don't need the read option to be deadly qbs.

They both can run a traditional offense and just scramble when they need to.

RGIII hasn't shown that yet, he was the most reliant on the read option of the 3 qbs we're talking about, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't develop into a stud qb in traditional sets.

So it's not just about stopping the option with these guys. That's only a wrinkle.
This is just wrong. RG3 was actually ridiculously efficient from under center and especially on play action.
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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This is just wrong. RG3 was actually ridiculously efficient from under center and especially on play action.
yes but the offense he played in was more reliant on the option and that sort of thing than Kaepernick or Wilson. But maybe RG3 wont need to be, Shanny is great when it comes to designing an offense that keeps the QB moving around a lot. RG3 may never have to be a pocket passer first because of the offense he plays in. Im not saying he couldnt become that, but just he may never be used in that fashion. I feel like with Kaepernick, his set of tools and the offense he plays in will result in him doing a lot of damage from the pocket. Wilson, we shall see. I think his game is an improviser. He reminds me quite a bit of a young Michael Vick, except he throws with much better touch, has a lot of talent around him and has his head on straight. He doesnt have nearly the same physical talent as vick in terms of speed/arm strength/raw athleticism, but his playing style is pretty similar IMO.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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I've already said the same thing. They do have their difficult games on the road (difficult now - but who knows then). That's true.

They're better on the road than people realize. Every loss was by a TD or less and some of them by one play. Their biggest win was on the road (Chicago), and they won a road playoff game and stormed back in another. The Hasselbeck teams used to be really shaky on the road but Wilson looked comfortable everywhere. Many of their road losses came early in the season before Wilson turned the corner (which was the Chicago game).

And my whole point, what I've been saying, and what you disagree with, is that IF THEY PLAY LIKE THEY DID FOR THE SECOND HALF OF 2012, IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER WHO THEY PLAY OR WHERE. That's how good they were. A more accurate way to judge teams than W/L is point differential. They were never out of a game. Every loss was by a TD or less. Continuing that way and they should have no problem winning 12 games regardless of the schedule.

And it's stupid to do what you did. They'll go 1-4 against these teams and then 3-3 in the division and someone's gonna steal a game. BAM. 8 or 9 wins! It's very stupid.

What is that? It's just blind guessing. There's no analysis whatsoever. It's completely pointless.

I do research, I do writing, I have pages of analysis on my computer. And when its done, Ill post it. Im not gonna waste time writing down detailed analysis in this thread.

Im giving you my opinion, and that is that the Seahawks are going to have a very hard time living up to expectations this year. Ive been watching the NFL for a long time, and Im sensing a team that needs to go through some growing pains before they really realize their potential. I think people are a little too high off their great second half and exciting playoff run - they had a hell of a lot of stuff go their way throughout that stretch, and that momentum is not likely to still be carrying over 6 months later. Its all predictions at this point, you dont have to get so damn offended that I have picked against your favorite team just because most consider them top SB contenders.


And your point differential argument to me is stupid. Because all that matters in this league is wins and losses. A win by a field goal is worth as much as a win by 50. So no, beating the **** out of your cupcake schedule, which is what a team like Denver did last year, does not make you the best team in the league. And running up the score instead of running out the clock doesnt make the win worth more or make me think that the team is good.

Case in point: this season. The Pats and Broncos had the best point differentials in the league this year with the Broncos at +192, NE at +226, Seattle 3rd at +167. The Ravens at +54 beat the Broncos in a thriller, and then blew out the Patriots in fox borough. Cincinatti didnt win their division b/c Baltimore played better in divisional games (i.e. the games that count most), but had a better point differential than Baltimore, but when the playoffs came, they looked completely out of place while the Ravens won the SB. The Giants were a clearly flawed team last year, but had by far the best point differential in their division. The Redskins, who won their division but had a point differential at +48, only a quarter of the Seahawks, were dusting the seahawks off in the playoffs until their star QB got hurt and their coach makes a huge blunder and lets him stay in hobbling around and hurt his team. Kirk Cousins goes in at halftime and the Skins probly win that game. anyone else think the Chargers were actually a better team last year than the Colts, Rams, Panthers, Bucs, Cowboys? well thats what your point differential theory says. lmao u just lost a lot of credibility even bring that up what a lame ass simplistic stat to base anything off.


PS told you not long ago I didnt like the Percy Harvin trade, he has too many injury issues, isnt going to make the impact people think and that they overpaid big time....Well he is already hurt and might need surgery and even if hes back for the season it could be hard to assimilate him into the offense with him missing camp
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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I think these teams transcend matchups. They're arguably the two best teams in the league. They can both beat anyone.
That's ridiculous.

They had good years recently, but the talent level of both teams isn't dramatically greater than what is on the rest of the teams in the NFL.

For example: the 49ers are weak on their Defensive Line if Justin Smith isn't a dominant player. Their secondary is mediocre at best. The Seahawks don't have much on their Offensive Line outside of Russell Okung. If he goes down (and he is injury prone) that offense could actually struggle mightily.

I could easily see either one of these teams taking a downturn and failing to win even 10 games this year.
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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For example: the 49ers are weak on their Defensive Line if Justin Smith isn't a dominant player. Their secondary is mediocre at best. .
Ok, this is a fun game. Now find me just one NFL team that has studs at every single position, on both sides of the ball, and has no weaknesses. Take your time..
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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Ok, this is a fun game. Now find me just one NFL team that has studs at every single position, on both sides of the ball, and has no weaknesses. Take your time..
That's the point. There isn't one.

Guys in this thread are talking about the Seahawks and 49ers like they're stacked at every position and on the path to becoming the next 70s Steelers dynasty type of team, which they most certainly *aren't*.
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Old 07-26-2013, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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Don't you dare do this AT, you shut your mouth before I have to explain the point you're horribly going to butcher. You need to always be have the opinion I don't. You're trolling wrong.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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I do research, I do writing, I have pages of analysis on my computer. And when its done, Ill post it. Im not gonna waste time writing down detailed analysis in this thread.

Im giving you my opinion, and that is that the Seahawks are going to have a very hard time living up to expectations this year. Ive been watching the NFL for a long time, and Im sensing a team that needs to go through some growing pains before they really realize their potential. I think people are a little too high off their great second half and exciting playoff run - they had a hell of a lot of stuff go their way throughout that stretch, and that momentum is not likely to still be carrying over 6 months later. Its all predictions at this point, you dont have to get so damn offended that I have picked against your favorite team just because most consider them top SB contenders.


And your point differential argument to me is stupid. Because all that matters in this league is wins and losses. A win by a field goal is worth as much as a win by 50. So no, beating the **** out of your cupcake schedule, which is what a team like Denver did last year, does not make you the best team in the league. And running up the score instead of running out the clock doesnt make the win worth more or make me think that the team is good.

Case in point: this season. The Pats and Broncos had the best point differentials in the league this year with the Broncos at +192, NE at +226, Seattle 3rd at +167. The Ravens at +54 beat the Broncos in a thriller, and then blew out the Patriots in fox borough. Cincinatti didnt win their division b/c Baltimore played better in divisional games (i.e. the games that count most), but had a better point differential than Baltimore, but when the playoffs came, they looked completely out of place while the Ravens won the SB. The Giants were a clearly flawed team last year, but had by far the best point differential in their division. The Redskins, who won their division but had a point differential at +48, only a quarter of the Seahawks, were dusting the seahawks off in the playoffs until their star QB got hurt and their coach makes a huge blunder and lets him stay in hobbling around and hurt his team. Kirk Cousins goes in at halftime and the Skins probly win that game. anyone else think the Chargers were actually a better team last year than the Colts, Rams, Panthers, Bucs, Cowboys? well thats what your point differential theory says. lmao u just lost a lot of credibility even bring that up what a lame ass simplistic stat to base anything off.


PS told you not long ago I didnt like the Percy Harvin trade, he has too many injury issues, isnt going to make the impact people think and that they overpaid big time....Well he is already hurt and might need surgery and even if hes back for the season it could be hard to assimilate him into the offense with him missing camp
Congrats you predicted an injury and that player got injured. I said that was fine to predict an injury with Harvin. I personally don't predict injuries because everyone can get injured at any moment. I also wrote that as a concern of mine (2012 was a healthy year which was a huge part of how well they played). This is a blow to what could have been, but the offense was plenty capable without him.

Point differential is a better indicator than W-L of which team is better because so many games in the NFL come down to the last possession. This is widely accepted. If you can't understand that then I'm sorry. Neither are a foolproof predictor of playoff results. Those teams all had better records than the Ravens too...

3 of the 4 final four teams were in the top 5 in point differential. And the other two were knocked out a round previous in thriller games that came down to the last possession.

You have yet to give any useful analysis other than a good prediction about a guy getting hurt (which is an interesting game to play) so I'm anxious to read the actually football stuff rather than the useless generalizations. Since you have pages of it.

I don't care about you picking against them for this year - there's just no reasoning behind it other than non-football generalizations - useless blanket statements about how their mentality, your "sense", "growing pains" (lol) and how somehow media expectations are going to be their downfall. Or the amount of money Zach Miller is being paid. Like that matters on the field with the league's top 2-3, if not 1 most talented roster.

And the reason why I started at this was because you gave them absolutely no credit for 2012. Your initial reasoning was along the lines of "well they weren't that impressive last year anyway." That's ********. You just weren't paying attention. Or you thought of that narrative for whatever reason and now want to run with it - even though it is supremely flawed.

Like I said, go ahead and pick against them for this year - that's fine. I even gave you a bullet point post about what really could lead to their downfall in 2013.

But to discredit the end of 2012 - two terrific road playoff performances and one of the most dominant runs in the history of the league - that was straight up WRONG and deserved to be picked apart.
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